Stacked Walls - Undesired results

[Chad Smith]

I don't use stacked walls all that often so I don't know if this was happening in earlier versions, but the below is happening on 8.1. There are two issues, see attached files for further details:

1. Wall 1 is the same style as Wall 3 but when connected to a roof behaves differently. Wall 1 has an Unconnected Height, while Wall 3 has a Top Constraint which is higher than the change in the 2 stacked walls. Wall 1 should be behaving the same as Wall 3.

2. This is the more annoying one. When the wall ends are set to Disallow Join, the bottom wall follows the joining rule, but the top one doesn't. See Wall 3 and Wall 4.

[BWG]

I had a similar issue, but it was with a gable roof. I was told it the stacked wall was not the problem, but how it connected to the roof. In my case, revit couldn't handle how the roof and plate line were connecting. I had to do a profile edit to remedy it. It was considered a bug by ADSK and entered into support.

[janunson]

I've also had this problem - stacked wall that included a footing. the footing extended beyond the end of the stacked wall, and when attached to the roof, created a 3' concret wall all the way up to the roof at the end of the wall... I don't think they should work this way.

[dhurtubise]

I'm still not a big fan of the footing tool. I'm sticking to the good old way that gives me full control

[lev.lipkin]

(Undesired Footing is most likely bug, please post example or send example to support.)

Original question no. 1: top constraint of the stacked wall determines which sub-walls of the stacked wall are utilized.

When wall is attached to roof, actual top sub-wall of the wall gets extended (or shrinked).

That is why when top constraint is set to unconnected and height is not enough to allow for 'higher' sub-wall to appear, the only existing 'bottom' sub-wall gets extended to the roof.

Note attachment to roof does not change top constraint or offset, as roof might not be horizontal.

Please change top offset or height of the wall to have all desired sub-walls before or after attachment.

Original question no. 2: disallow join did work for me when I pull walls 3 and 4 apart, then switched for both walls to 'allow join', then to 'disallow join', and drag them back, or when I just switched both walls to 'allow join', then back to 'disallow join', and dragged end of wall 3 to side of wall 4. Please post journal which resulted in this issue or send such journal to support.

Thanks.

[janunson]

Here's the file that does it:

[tamas]

Thanks for the file. I reported it as a bug. I think it is related to the relative short length of the bottom foundation subwall. If you make the wall longer, it succeeds to attach.

When a stacked wall is attached to a roof, all of its subwalls may be cut by the roof. Therefore we attempt to attach all subwalls to the roof, unless they are stopped by the subwall above. It is easier said then done, as the above picture shows...

Sorry for your trouble.

Tamas

[janunson]

I have another example... this one of a long wall, but with an embedded curtain wall in it. The footing again attaches to the roof.

[tamas]

You can do a few things to work around these bugs:

1. Break up the misbehaving stacked wall. (Right click on the wall and "Break Up".) Now you can control all subwalls independently.

2. Make a separate wall type for the foundation. (Maybe stacked, or just one for the footing.) That wall does not need to be attached to the roof.

3. Use the "Continuous Footing" tool new in 8.0 to make footings.

I think the common root of the bugs is as I described in my previous post. We treat each subwalls the same way, thus all need to be attached to the roof. If we simply attached all to the roof, you would see the same bad shape everywhere. Therefore, all subwalls (except for the top one) need to be also attached to the subwall above them to avoid the lower ones go too high.

Now this second attachment unfortunately fails sometimes due to unexpected geometrical conditions. I think you could see the attachment reporting an error if you broke up the stacked wall and manually attached the footing to the foundation wall right above it.

We could fail the stacked wall attachment whenever some of its subwalls failed to attach. Although this would not take you further at all.

Tamas

[janunson]

Got another stacked wall issue - this time i added a fillet arc as a stacked wall... then moved one of the walls in the fillet... the footing sticks correctly, but the upper section of the stacked wall gets out of whack.

[tamas]

Got another stacked wall issue - this time i added a fillet arc as a stacked wall... then moved one of the walls in the fillet... the footing sticks correctly, but the upper section of the stacked wall gets out of whack.
I could not reproduce this. Could you post the file before the move?

Tamas

[janunson]

here's another one - wall joins between two of the same stacked wall, one is an arc. the only wall joins available for butt or miter look like this. the footing joins up right, rest of the wall does not.

[janunson]

I could not reproduce this. Could you post the file before the move?

Tamas


Big file... will upload via subscription center.

[tamas]

here's another one - wall joins between two of the same stacked wall, one is an arc. the only wall joins available for butt or miter look like this. the footing joins up right, rest of the wall does not.
Are you using 7.0 by any chance? I think 8.0 fixed a bunch of stacked wall issues.

Tamas

[janunson]

I'm using 8.1 all these screenshots were taken from 8.1.

Here's another stacked wall issue - Area plan lines - they like to snap to points referenceing the widest part of the stacked wall (usually the footing) even if that part of the wall is not cut, or necessarily even visible in the plans. I've redrawn boundaries to the correct locations, but when a wall moves, if the line is associated, it will snap back to face of footing. ;-(

[archjake]

Stacked walls and wall joins are a pain. I love the Feature of stacked walls, but this morning It took a number of hours just fixing wall joins between stacked walls. I was quite aggravated by this!

I'm using V8.0 but I heard that V8.1 is worse. :(

[tamas]

Stacked walls and wall joins are a pain. I love the Feature of stacked walls, but this morning It took a number of hours just fixing wall joins between stacked walls. I was quite aggravated by this!

I'm using V8.0 but I heard that V8.1 is worse. :(
Could you kindly post a few simple examples?

I heard V8,1 was better. ;-)

Tamas

[archjake]

Could you kindly post a few simple examples?

I heard V8,1 was better. ;-)

Tamas
This was one of my big problems. It is now fixed with way too much effort.
Others were less complex, but I don't have a backup file of them.

[cmahoney]

Hi janunson,

I have looked through the Support Requests that you have submitted recently and I don't find one related to the problems you describe here. As you can see, Tamas is eager to look into this for you. Can you open a Support Request (http://www.autodesk.com/supportrequest)and submit the data to us for investigation?

Thanks,

[janunson]

I've been having a lot of trouble getting the site to work (there's a support request open about that one)... I'll give it another try later today when i get a chance.