Wall Joins 8.1

[sbrown]

Has anyone else noticed a significant increase in wall join failure in 8.1. I have a simple generic 8" wall that goes 3 stories, at each floor diff. generic 8" walls touch the corners of this elevator shaft. The walls don't automatically clean, the overlap and in general just get messing. The only way to get them clean is to manually pull all the walls away from the shaft, then miter the shaft walls, then bring the walls back in place. I'm noticing this in other areas as well. Wall just seem to not even try to clean up in many conditions until you manualy set how they should. The good news is I can get them to join, it just seems like the process is no longer automatic.

[janunson]

i've been feeling same way in the back of my mind.. I don't remember ever doing this much messing around w/ wall joins in the past. wasn't sure if maybe it's just the particular project i was working on having different style of layout or something.

[sbrown]

I'm experiencing this on all of my 8.1 projects. I think they probably made them more workable, but less automatic so now we suffer not the one join we just can't get to work, but we suffer, many joins don't work the first time. I liked it better the other way.

[Les Therrien]

Yes I did.
But I posted about a few other bugs already so I didn't want to overburden the factory.

[Wes Macaulay]

I have yet to notice this, but this is good to know. Since I've been disabling joins on a lot of wall ends, this may not be a problem for us as much? I don't know -- but we'll see what happens. If they've toned down the reactivity of wall joins it would be good to get a description of this from the Factory...

[iru69]

i've been feeling same way in the back of my mind.. I don't remember ever doing this much messing around w/ wall joins in the past. wasn't sure if maybe it's just the particular project i was working on having different style of layout or something.
Ditto.

This was driving me nuts this weekend - but I've been noticing so many little things that are a little off in 8.1 that I started to wonder if I'm reading more things into it than are really there..

[BWG]

Been noticing this too, but thought it was just because I am using the software more than in 8.0.

[BillyGrey]

Yes, there is a very noticeable increase in wall join issues. Some for no reason at all on what I used
to consider very pedestrian corner conditions. Sometimes I get this annoying thin line at joins also that cannot be eliminated with the linework tool.

[sbrown]

Yes that line, that used to be shown only when you were adjusting the wall join condition now seems like it is semi permanent. I'm also getting a lot of what appear like overlapping wall conditions, where a portion of the wall at the join is thin because instead of a clean join it just displays 2 walls on top of each other.

[BillyGrey]

Exactly Scott.

I know you spend a great deal of time modeling, as do I, and I am starting to wonder what is going on, i.e., a lack of attention to detail in the rush to produce more features. I am very concerned that
some very old issues are not being resolved release to release, and new ones like walls, and the changing roof methods appear as time goes by. These and others are issues that seem to affect my productivity more and more lately, which is very frustrating.

Bill

[aaronrumple]

I've found a whole host of issues with 8.1.

Maybe Revit has finally fully transitioned into Autodesk....

[Les Therrien]

I've found a whole host of issues with 8.1.

Maybe Revit has finally fully transitioned into Autodesk....

Ouch!!!
I know it was said that there wouldn't be a new build until the next release, but there are MANY emerging problems with the latest build.
I think there will be no choice but to have another build.

[Wes Macaulay]

Maybe after everyone starts using the new build posted today (20050914_0100) we'll see if some of these problems have been looked after...

[funkman]

I agree, there's definitely more wall join problems. No doubt. Just downloading the latest build now, hopefully that will fix these up...although...

[tamas]

As always, we regret if you find problems with Revit. We do understand the need for improving wall joins in general. They are the cornerstones of most building models and changing them is a very sensitive task.

I am not aware of recent changes that may have caused your troubles reported in this thread. So if you could kindly post a few examples where the joins misbehave, we could identify the reason and hopefully resolve it.

We do a lot of in-house testing that includes wall joins among thousands of other things, and I did not here about new wall join problems for quite a while.

Again, I apologize for your frustration and assure you that we will keep this issue on the priority list.

Tamas

[sbrown]

Tamas, Thank you for responding, my current file is allready in supports hands for other reasons, its about 118mb so I don't want to upload it again. If you can get the file from support request 1-293488001 color fills not working in 8.1, then give me a call I can walk you through some. I will post them as I come upon them, I believe the change may have started in 8.0 so was anything done then? I'm posting one that seems to happen frequently right here. Note you can get it to clean up, but these are happening throughout the project. The image shows the "overlap" condition that keeps popping up for me.

The reason I posted was to find out if this maybe isolated to my project(as it was started in 6.0 and upgraded with each release).

[tamas]

I'm posting one that seems to happen frequently right here. Note you can get it to clean up, but these are happening throughout the project. The image shows the "overlap" condition that keeps popping up for me. Just from a quick look this appears to be an unusal wall join (at least to the code that handles it). Here you have two overlapping walls that were joined by the "Join Geometry" command, as well as a third wall coming in to clean with both. The default join order makes the butt in the order you drew the two walls and that join is not cleaned properly. When you change the join order, it does clean up, because the incoming wall no longer overlaps the other one. (See image)

I don't think we have changed anything to cause this behavior. Your models may have become more sophisticated though :-).

Tamas

PS: Scott, I see a different join in your model than the one you posted the image for. That could be a completely different issue.

[sbrown]

Yes when I copy pasted the condition from my main model to a blank one, it cleaned up, however I can't get it to clean in my real model. Please see if you can get the full model as there are many conditions, Here is one that is very simple and very common frustration, 2 walls same height constraints, join at the midpoint instead of the ends. Note it is very easy to fix this join, I just have to click on the end of the wall for it to rebuild, the point is I don't remember ever having this many simple conditions that need the manual fixing that I'm experiencing in this file.

[BWG]

Yes when I copy pasted the condition from my main model to a blank one, it cleaned up, however I can't get it to clean in my real model. Please see if you can get the full model as there are many conditions, Here is one that is very simple and very common frustration, 2 walls same height constraints, join at the midpoint instead of the ends. Note it is very easy to fix this join, I just have to click on the end of the wall for it to rebuild, the point is I don't remember ever having this many simple conditions that need the manual fixing that I'm experiencing in this file.


I've been getting this one a lot. I just have to disconnect and redo, sometimes have to redraw.

[DanielleAnderson]

I'm going to resurrect this one because I have noticed a lot of these same things, but I thought maybe it was just me being dumb. :)
I have a different problem currently though, and it may not be a new issue, I am just finally getting down into some nitty-gritty drawing conventions with my project here and these are the things I need to know how to fix.
Thanks!

[Wes Macaulay]

In this case, right click the end of the wall that's going too far and choose Diallow Join -- pull it back to where it's supposed to be and use Join Geometry to get the linework fixed.

I use Disallow Join a lot on wall ends...

[DanielleAnderson]

Thanks Wes!

[dsw98]

I feel your pain. I had a teacher tell me wall join problems where a thing of the past. Well they have come back to haunt me. BOO

[snurresprett9]

Wall joins and attach walls to roof is a mess in 8.1! I dont know what happend, but I'm having more trouble now than ever with Revit.

[sbrown]

please send in your examples, the factor could reproduce some of mine but not all and this is really a production time killer. they are worse then i ever remember and i'm only working in coarse detail level.

[Wes Macaulay]

I don't understand what's changed -- are these projects upgraded to 8.1? I have projects from 8.0 and 8.1 and other than some mullion cleanup issues I'm not having any trouble with wall joins. But I am probably disallowing more joins than most people do.

[sbrown]

try this, create a simple T intersection, now split the top wall of the T in the middle, it doesn't clean. you may ask why would you split there. for changing walls to non room bounding. I have a project with dozens of locker room and bathroom walls that arent suuposed to be room bnding, when i split them, i then have to clean them too, to add insult to injury, if you click the blue dot it rejoins the walls making them 1 wall again. can you say aaaaarrrrrrgggggg.

[pwmsmith]

Seems to be fixed in build 2000.

[sbrown]

thats great news, i'll check it out tomorrow.

[Merlin]

In this case, right click the end of the wall that's going too far and choose Diallow Join -- pull it back to where it's supposed to be and use Join Geometry to get the linework fixed.

I use Disallow Join a lot on wall ends...

Yes, Wes,
I actually found I was doing it more from 8.0!

John Mc