Doors, Infills and Phases

[phyllisr]

First, is there a way to demolish a door yet not have the opening automatically filled? I know I can do it with another object (cased opening for example) in a different view but that's one more thing to do in a space planning design phase when we often change things multiple times. For users who are accustomed to a quick layer and classification change in ADT, I can anticipate this question at least once a day for months. I cannot believe I like this one thing in ADT better but being able to change a layer and classification while leaving the opening in a wall is convenient and "real." Anyone with brilliant ideas to make the infill not "automatic?"

Second, when a new door is added to an existing wall, the default automatically shows the wall section demolished. Totally great. Is there a way to see the lines perpendicular to the wall that indicate the opening? Same with a demolished door where I actually want the infill automatic. This is not a biggie for me but I'd like to know if it's possible and I anticipate a few instances where it would be very useful. In coarse, please, like medium.

Attached is a clip of what I do not want to see. Yeah, I am aware I am expecting a lot but it never hurts to ask. The view properties I set are to show everything. Links to previous threads I could not find most welcome.

Thanks,
PBR

[Wes Macaulay]

First answer: the new chunk of wall that goes in when you demo a door from a previous phase lives in the phase of the view where the door was demolished. So it is, as far as that phase is concerned, new construction. As a result you can choose a phase filter that does not show new construction and the opening will thus stay unfilled.

Of course, the rest of the stuff you drew in that new construction phase won't show up either.

Second answer: you do have to draw these lines in yourself. Revit is of course trying to patch up the wall as nicely as it can, but it looks weird without the lines. C'est dommage.

Aren't you glad you didn't pay for these answers? :mrgreen:

HTH / FWIW

[SCShell]

Hey there,

The only thing I can offer you is this little trick. It is a workaround; however, it does give you better control over how to make things like this look better.

Simple cut (split) your existing wall on both sides of a door that you plan to demolish, just a little bid beyond the actual door, like a jamb's width. Then, do your demolition and then place your new wall infill in the remaining opening. This will give you the control that I think you are looking for. It's how I do it.

Good luck
Steve

and Wes, I believe the phrase is "q'uelle domage"

[phyllisr]

The suggestions are useful and I will certainly save for the future. However (and I will try harder for clarity), the problem was not where the infill displayed or controlling the visibility and phasing - that I have resolved. It was the infill in the first place. I want to demolish the door and leave the opening or frame intact.

Example: Low budget TI project, ADA modifications, or management philosophy support. A door must be removed to connect suites but the owner does not want to buy carpet or widen the opening so it looks like a suite, for push/pull side clearance issues, or because John Doe from Important Corporation XYZ is not "entitled" to an office with a door. I want a demolition plan that will show the door removed and never show a wall infill in any phase. Without having to add a cased opening to replace the demolished door in another phase.

Clear as mud? Thanks.
PBR

[Tom Dorner]

Phyllis,

We do a ton of TI's and run across this issue all the time. For now the only thing I can suggest to show a door demolished or simply removed from a frame with no infill is linework or demo door component.

The infill feature on a demolished door has gotten much better in recent releases, but still does not account for the fact that one may want to remove a door and not infill the opening which as you know happens all the time in the TI world for various reasons.

I have passed along my concern on this issue to a few Adesk people, but one never knows if something like this will be looked at as a priority. It is if you are doing TI's, but for most people using Revit they probably think we are out of our minds for requesting such a feature.

Tom

[captainbunsaver]

What is a "TI"?

TC

[phyllisr]

Tenant Improvement.

[captainbunsaver]

Would it work to modify an existing door family and remove the panel and change the line style on the floor plan panel and swing to indicate demo'd?
Just a thought...

The Captain

[Tom Dorner]

The true answer probably is to build a door family with nested door panels and either contol the visability of the door panel that is nested in, or make a "blank" door panel. The problem is easier to solve now in 8.1 than it was in the past. Again it is that pesky not enough time in the day to get it all done!

Tom

[sfaust]

the way I do it is to create an opening family that is the same size as the door and place that in the new phase. See attached

[phyllisr]

Thanks for the tip, but this is what I originally noted that I wanted to avoid. My original question acknowledged that I could accomplish the goal with another object in a different view - specifically a cased opening. The work-around I acknowledged (your suggestion also) makes everything look correct but it is still not the way it would be done in the field.

Several of the tips have possibilities and I will try them. But I genuinely wanted it to function correctly. If I want a door removed and the frame and opening retained, the field guy with his tools will take the door off the hinges, remove the hinges from the frame and patch as best he can. He is not going to remove the door and frame, fill the opening, patch and repair adjacent surfaces, then demolish all this to install a new cased opening.

Revit is so good at "thinking" like the construction process, I would think this would be possible without a work-around. Ideal is if the door and containing wall were created in the existing phase and demolished in the new construction phase, the designer would have to make a proactive decision for the infill or not. Revit assuming an infill does not reflect the correct construction sequencing.

Really sorry this has become such a big thing. Thought it would be simple and intuitive and that dozens of people had already resolved and I was just too new to know what it was.

PBR

[Steve_Stafford]

Perhaps this is too simplistic? If you are removing a door panel and leaving the frame intact, I'd use a note and leader to point out the door panel. I wouldn't bother with the demo tool at all. Further you could use the linework tool to overide the panel with the demo linetype.

Another possibility is to add a Demo Panel yes/no instance parameter to door families. The visibilty of the 2D symbolic linework for panel and swing could be assigned to this parameter. Then any door panel could be demolished apart from phasing. The 3D door panel would also need to be assigned so it wouldn't be visible when doing camera views and such. The frame and opening would remain intact.

Added a quick mock up family, not parametric at all...just the demo toggle.

[jarkko.rauvanlahti]

I'm not sure if this the answer, but to the second question about showing the opening lines in new door thats attached to old wall - you simply just need to add symbol lines for the cut to the door family and check the correct visibility for them (not showing in 3d etc). I att. one picture were our modified door is placed on old wall.

To the first question - did you mean to show demolished door as normal opening, but with lines that show it's demolished? There's the answer in the question -> make door family called demolished and change it's opening lines as demolished ones. It's not actually in Revit sense demolished, but would show in plans what you want and it's almost as simple to change doors family in fly as it's to use the demolish tool. hmm read your last reply and as Steve pointed - you can take the 3d door panel off from that demolished door family and perhaps the better name for the family is Demolished Door panel- door..

[SCShell]

Perhaps this is too simplistic? If you are removing a door panel and leaving the frame intact, I'd use a note and leader to point out the door panel. I wouldn't bother with the demo tool at all. Further you could use the linework tool to overide the panel with the demo linetype.
.
Hey there,
Sometimes we just can't see the forest through the doors! Great and simple idea Steve.

Thanks
Steve

[Batman]

Here is a solution. It works...the reason though seems due to a fault with Revit.

1. Create your existing wall.
2. Embed a wall segment, same phase, same type and make it the same size as the existing door (that we are about to install).
3. Then install the existing door in the same location as the wall segment.

When you demolish the door Revit will give you an error message which relates to this problem (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=138528#post138528).
Your door will demolish, Revit fails to infill the wall and it "works". :screwy:

Go figure...

[phyllisr]

What amazes me even more is that after the "error," it does not remain as a warning to resolve in the Tools > Review Warnings menu. Wish all my "errors" would disappear like that. Balancing my checkbook, forgetting a client's name, accepting an autocomplete entry and sending an email to the wrong person...

Still does not reflect the field condition but it's the closest so far.

Thanks.
PBR

[Batman]

What amazes me even more is that after the "error," it does not remain as a warning to resolve layer in the Tools > Review Warnings menu. Wish all my "errors" would disappear like that. Balancing my checkbook, forgetting a client's name, accepting an autocomplete entry and sending an email to the wrong person...

Still does not reflect the field condition but it's the closest so far.

Thanks.
PBR
There are many loopholes in the world to be exploited but when it comes to Revit I would much rather I wasn't able to present such scenario.