Is Autodesk pushing ADT more than Revit?

[anthony.67953]

I attended an Arch Desktop presentation last evening, walked out quite miffed. Autodesk continues to steal from the Revit program to beef up there Arch desktop. An ADT user still must do 3 mouse clicks to our 1, but they have a few features we have been asking for. ADT has the capability of tagging an object with all the written notes describing what the object is.

[jbalding48677]

Anthony -

I think you will find that Autodesk is, and will continue to be, pushing Revit more than ADT. However ADT is still going to be some people's preference (including some resellers???). That said, I think it is well within Autodesk's right to "steal" from Revit to put into ADT and, keep in mind, the reverse is true as I hope to see some of the ADT detailing capabilities included in Revit???!!!

[Wes Macaulay]

I would not be surprised to see auto keynoting such as you see in ADT end up in a soon-coming release of Revit. It's my understanding that R9 has a focus on working drawings.

[Nic M.]

We just had ADesk conference in Belgium. It was ALL about Revit.
Mark Paraskeva, Vice President Northern Europe spoke global about adesk and a couple of cases for 15 min. the rest (30min.) about SOM, the Freedom tower and Revit.
There was an adt presentation where at the end no questions where asked only to quickly move on to the Revit presentation.
It was also stated that adt will continue to be developed but at the moment Revit IS the future.
I found it reassuring to hear such a commitment/ (push) from autodesk towards Revit.

[D_Driver]

I attended an Arch Desktop presentation last evening, walked out quite miffed.
hmmm...You went to an ADT presentation and did not like it that ADT works? - LOL - he chuckles to himself opening himself up for flaming<g>


but they have a few features we have been asking for. ADT has the capability of tagging an object with all the written notes describing what the object is.

ADT has had this type of scheduling before revit was born!


Autodesk continues to steal from the Revit program to beef up there Arch desktop.
steals? it is the same company! sometimes I am fairly sure the same programmers!

I must say that as an end user of both products, when I am using Revit - I miss my ADT tools, When I am using ADT, I miss my Revit tools. when I am forced kicking and screaming to use vanilla ACAD I am just one unhappy puppy :banghead:

It appears to me that there is a 2 way communication between the two products behind the scenes if not for the end user at this point. There are features that get (please use the word Migrated here rather than Stolen) between the products as the base code allows.

I don't think Autodesk is 'pushing' one over the other - they just want to sell product.

respectfully
David

[abarrette]

Keep in mind that while they are the same company they are different departments with different budgets and personnel. If I was working in ADT I'd do everything in my power to put Revit out of business (as much as I was allowed to anyway) It's job security for the ADT guys to push ADT. If ADT dissappears tomorrow it means they lose their jobs, same company or not. I am disconcerted at the advances in ADT but not surprised.


I also look at this as an opportuniy to show ADT users that switching to Revit isn't that bad for them. After all, we Reviteers know that the Revit whirlwind is coming now and in the future. ADT users need to be prepared with or without their knowledge. :mrgreen: It would be nice if there was a date the axe would fall and everyone would be one or the other but look at the numbers... In that battle we're the Beta format my friends. Slow, steady, and inevitable is going to be our course for a while.

[barathd]

It's my understanding that R9 has a focus on working drawings.

Wes is this for real? Seems like we have been waiting for this for a life time.

Regards

Dick Barath

[Wes Macaulay]

I've heard these comments from various sources. But what are the developers really adding to the software tho? I don't know.

[cosmickingpin]

See folks there is no conspiracy, shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.


[size=2] If I was working in ADT I'd do everything in my power to put Revit out of business (as much as I was allowed to anyway)

[abarrette]

Now don't go spinning it that way. It's an honest observation. Being part of the same company doesn't stop competing products from competing, in fact it tends to increase that competition to a feverish pitch. It's a wonderful thing if you haven't chosen a side. For those of us who have chosen sides it's something worthy of keeping an eye on but not worthy of getting our panties in a twist over. Autodesk will follow the money, when ADT starts costing more to support then it brings in. It'll go away. Right now there aren't enough butts in Revit seats to turn the dollar. We all know that's going to change. The faster the better but reality is that we are a small but growing population of Revit users... it's going to take some time before we have the ammunition to take ADT on dollar for dollar. Of course, User for User we'd dance circles around them but that is neither here nor there.

My comment was basically along the lines of legality... not Autodesk mandates... but whatever. If it was humor it was lost on me... sorry =)

[BillyGrey]

Wes is this for real? Seems like we have been waiting for this for a life time.

Regards

Dick Barath

Hey Dick,

I sure hope working drawings translates back to drafting improvements/bug squashing...

With you all the way,

Bill

[Wes Macaulay]

Hey - who are we to complain? All those seats of ADT have funded all those features we want in Revit :twisted:

Then, when the ADT community wakes up and starts buying Revit, we'll all be masters of the all the new Revit features and they'll be years behind

[Scott D Davis]

Talked with some of the Factory guys yesterday. They are adding staff to the Revit developement team. Also, it was said that the ADT and Revit team actually work pretty closely together....they are all part of the Building Solutions Division (BSD). They actually bounce ideas off each other to help improve both products.

It's all about making happy customers....they know that there are many people that love using ADT, and many that love using Revit. They want to make both products the best they can be.

[narlee]

A review of the Autodesk website and marketing stuff I've received from my local AutoCAD reseller confirm that Autodesk is promoting ADT to Revit conversions, not the other way. Autodesk is offering deep discounts for ADT owners to switch to Revit.

As the reseller states to ADT users, “You have two priorities: protecting your investment in existing technology and training and gaining a hard-hitting competitive edge with building information modeling.”

'Nough said?

[iru69]

'Nough said?

Not really.

From my experience, the Reseller issue needs to be addressed. My experience with our reseller was that they were quite uncomfortable with Revit and not prepared to answer difficult questions about it. If we hadn't requested Revit, they would have never brought it up as an option.

Further, there are a number of Autodesk dealers that do not deal in Revit, and if a firm has been buying AutoCAD (or ADT) from them for the last ten years, they're unlikely to hear that Revit even exists because there reseller certainly isn't going to bring it up. Autodesk has done a lousy job promoting Revit itself in my opinion - before buying Revit, I never once saw any kind of promotional material for Revit come across my desk.

I'm not sure why there even are resellers... it seems like an antiquated system that just adds a layer of bureaucracy and costs. Resellers can stick around to offer CAD support services to Autodesk customers who want it, but I don't think I should be paying to subsidize Resellers who are not only offering me zero benefits but have actually cost us additional time and money (the "process" of renewing our subscription was only one in a long list).

[fernando]

of course the reseller theme in USA is different from Europe , but around here especially in Portugal, the push is absolute in Revit, they had good cross grad campaigns,
roadshows about Revit, seminar's and "hand's on Sessions", so all the push is on Revit

[cosmickingpin]

AMEN!!!
resellers are a huge problem! Some are better than others but as I sugested earlier revit is coming up against a confederacy of dunces and the resellers would rather sell ADT with with extensive and necessary trainging and support services than allow an independent transtitions to Revit. If not then let someone from from AutoDesk comment of their "reseller auditing" practices, which I don't believe exist in any form or fashion.
Because of Licencing I think the "reseller" is obsolete and should be phased out many markets. or at least give us the option of purchasing directly, at least for Revit.



Not really.

From my experience, the Reseller issue needs to be addressed. My experience with our reseller was that they were quite uncomfortable with Revit and not prepared to answer difficult questions about it. If we hadn't requested Revit, they would have never brought it up as an option.

Further, there are a number of Autodesk dealers that do not deal in Revit, and if a firm has been buying AutoCAD (or ADT) from them for the last ten years, they're unlikely to hear that Revit even exists because there reseller certainly isn't going to bring it up. Autodesk has done a lousy job promoting Revit itself in my opinion - before buying Revit, I never once saw any kind of promotional material for Revit come across my desk.

I'm not sure why there even are resellers... it seems like an antiquated system that just adds a layer of bureaucracy and costs. Resellers can stick around to offer CAD support services to Autodesk customers who want it, but I don't think I should be paying to subsidize Resellers who are not only offering me zero benefits but have actually cost us additional time and money (the "process" of renewing our subscription was only one in a long list).

[Steve_Stafford]

In the past I've encountered a couple resellers who had staff that didn't impress me, I'm sure I'll meet another sometime. The key thing in my comment is that a person didn't impress me, not necessarily the same as the company. Unless this person also happened to be the owner?

I also know and have known resellers who did an awesome job of representing my interests and the firms I've worked for both here in Southern California and back in New York. Lumping them in with the bad is about as unfair as any other generalization you can make.

If Autodesk doesn't know how poorly we are being served by a reseller then how will they know? Tell em! Nothing will change on one persons say so, but if it is a recurring theme with a given reseller then Autodesk can deal with it.

"The apologist"

[Wes Macaulay]

It would be crazy to get rid of all the resellers. In our area, we used to be the only reseller who had any clues about Revit, and in fact the other resellers were getting their clients to hold off on the software, which made it hard for us in some cases to convince people to try it. Everyone is beginning to sing the same tune, so there is less confusion.

Beyond that, resellers are people who have at least partially figured out Autodesk's labrynthine way of doing business (some of it necessary, some of it I'm not sure about), and they are the people you know that you go to when you need someone to advocate your problems for you at a higher level within Autodesk. While they may or may not have greater technical expertise with the software than their users, they should know where Autodesk and industry is going and relate that to their clients.

If there are no resellers than you have this huge gap between users and Autodesk, which smacks of how things go with Microsoft.

[iru69]

"The apologist"
Yes! I don't think the attack was on an individual or a company - it was on the system. We all know that there are a bunch of very nice, generous, helpful people on this forum who also happen to work for resellers...


In our area, we used to be the only reseller who had any clues about Revit, and in fact the other resellers were getting their clients to hold off on the software, which made it hard for us in some cases to convince people to try it.
You're kind of making the case against yourself. There's a conflict of interest there that is detrimental to Revit. That you happen to be one of the good guys is irrelevant.


Beyond that, resellers are people who have at least partially figured out Autodesk's labrynthine way of doing business (some of it necessary, some of it I'm not sure about), and they are the people you know that you go to when you need someone to advocate your problems for you at a higher level within Autodesk.
That's part of the problem perpetuated by resellers. There's no reason for there to be a labrynth. Autodesk makes software. They sell software. I buy software. What's so complicated about that? I've had better luck talking directly to Autodesk than relying on my reseller. Buying software from them doesn't get me anything but the software. If I want anything more than that, I have to pay more anyway.


If there are no resellers than you have this huge gap between users and Autodesk, which smacks of how things go with Microsoft.
Once again, I think your point can be spun right back around at you - that resellers create a gap between Autodesk and the customer. If Autodesk had to deal directly with me once in a while, maybe they'd be a little more zeroed in on keeping their customers happy.

I think the whole Windows mentality sucks, but having an Authorized Windows dealer wouldn't help anything - it would just make everything more expensive and complicated. I don't need an authorized dealer for MS Office. If I need help with our Windows server, I either learn how to fix it myself or I contract with a support company that specializes in such matters.

Look, I think this gets a lot more complicated the closer you are to it, the more your job revolves around it. From where I'm sitting, it's pretty crystal clear.

Anyway, I've already spent more than my 2 cents.

[Wes Macaulay]

You're kind of making the case against yourself. There's a conflict of interest there that is detrimental to Revit. That you happen to be one of the good guys is irrelevant.
I'll buy that, because I feel it to some degree. We also sell Triforma BTW, and I'd give my left arm to see more of it being used. Revit is becoming something of a monopoly in the BIM business, and I don't like it. Autodesk does not own my mind.


That's part of the problem perpetuated by resellers. There's no reason for there to be a labrynth. Autodesk makes software. They sell software. I buy software. What's so complicated about that? I've had better luck talking directly to Autodesk than relying on my reseller. Buying software from them doesn't get me anything but the software. If I want anything more than that, I have to pay more anyway.
I'm referring mostly to the way big companies work, and have to work. The SEC rules for large companies are pretty lengthy.


Once again, I think your point can be spun right back around at you - that resellers create a gap between Autodesk and the customer. If Autodesk had to deal directly with me once in a while, maybe they'd be a little more zeroed in on keeping their customers happy.
True, though the product people read enough on the forums to be made uncomfortable with people's negative comments. They feel the heat either way. They are more directly trying to meet needs than Microsoft is.


I think the whole Windows mentality sucks, but having an Authorized Windows dealer wouldn't help anything - it would just make everything more expensive and complicated. I don't need an authorized dealer for MS Office. If I need help with our Windows server, I either learn how to fix it myself or I contract with a support company that specializes in such matters.
You're saying that resellers don't help the locals enough to make them worthwhile. Autodesk software is way more 'niche' than Windows, and the idea is that the resellers are people who know the software well enough to be able to get the locals up and running with it. With Windows there are consultants and MSCNE stamps that I suppose are the equivalent of the services resellers provide.

Most people would rather NOT have anyone help them with what they're doing -- they'd rather know how to do everything on their own. Resellers are supposed to fill in the gaps.


Look, I think this gets a lot more complicated the closer you are to it, the more your job revolves around it. From where I'm sitting, it's pretty crystal clear.

Anyway, I've already spent more than my 2 cents.
My job doesn't revolve around it: I am firmly planted in the architecture industry and am studying to become a LEED AP. So if resellers are disbanded tomorrow, I'm fine with that. But more than I used to I think resellers need to be retained, but certainly tested more strenuously.