Wall Sweep and Exterior Masonry Conflict

[artitech]

I did search for an answer to this ... as I usually find, there are "similar" questions and "similar" answers, but nothing identical to my question....so here goes:

I have two basic wall types I am using in a stacked wall type. The lower portion has a precast sill as a sweep (the upper portion doesn't have any exterior masonry). The sill caps the lower masonry, but for some reason the masonry still sticks through the sill, obviously because I've sloped the sill and it comes below what would be the top of the masonry (see attached).

How can I correct this so that the masonry doesn't stick up above my sill - the sweep should terminate the exterior masonry...?

[artitech]

... oops... here's the attachment....

[abarrette]

Is it just in the basic wall that it shows this way or does it carry through to the stacked wall? If it is just within the basic wall I would say it's just the sample height showing through which doesn't correlate to anything in your stacked wall. If the sweep height is set correctly in the basic wall and the wall height is set correctly in the stacked wall there shouldn't be any issues. Barring the aforementioned items I would check the origin point of the profile to ensure it is mounting at the height you expect (3' - 0" to bottom vs. top).

[artitech]

Is it just in the basic wall that it shows this way or does it carry through to the stacked wall?

It is carrying through to the stacked wall as well.


If it is just within the basic wall I would say it's just the sample height showing through which doesn't correlate to anything in your stacked wall.

I changed the sample height to reflect my actual low wall height, so what you see is what I am getting...


Barring the aforementioned items I would check the origin point of the profile to ensure it is mounting at the height you expect (3' - 0" to bottom vs. top).

This I will have to check.

[artitech]

Barring the aforementioned items I would check the origin point of the profile to ensure it is mounting at the height you expect (3' - 0" to bottom vs. top).

It inserts from the bottom.... how does this change the eway the top of the wall reacts? My low masonry wall changes at 760mm AFF and I have the top of the sweep profile at 760mm AFF (the bottom "insert" height is at 660mm AFF), it's 100mm thick.

Does this mean that my lower wall type should stop at 660mm and the sweep profile sits above it and into the next wall type in my stacked wall?

[tamas]

The wall sweep is simply subtracted from the wall's normal shape. This is why you see the small sliver above your sloped sill. You could shift the sill up on its wall to make sure there is no sliver left.

If this was not an option, you could add a Reveal right next to the sill with a shape that cuts away the unwanted material. (That is somewhat of a kludge though.)

Tamas

[abarrette]

I seem to remember running into this issue before. I set the top of sill to the height I needed and the wall to the bottom of the sill so that the exterior material of the upper wall in the stack did indeed run through the sill. Not correct for material calculations but typically easier on the representation of the wall condition.

[artitech]

Both good solutions.

Perhaps AutoDesk could look at a way to address this in future updates to REVIT?

THX.

[artitech]

I seem to remember running into this issue before. I set the top of sill to the height I needed and the wall to the bottom of the sill so that the exterior material of the upper wall in the stack did indeed run through the sill. Not correct for material calculations but typically easier on the representation of the wall condition.

I tried this approach, which is likely the correct way to attempt this condition, and see the attached results....

Now my upper wall type exterior finish shows through my precast sill...

[artitech]

...bad image, try this one....

Why does REVIT export the image in "thick lines" when I have the view set to "thin lines" I wonder...???

[abarrette]

Not a great thing to have to do but it serves. I wasn't able to unlock the finish layer and be able to manipulate it in the stacked wall. If you were to break the wall up that would be an option, irritating as it might be. Stacked walls certainly need some work. The more people use them the more evident that fact becomes. Perhaps V9 will improve some things.

[artitech]

Perhaps V9 will improve some things.
Yes, better control over stacked walls, how the individual materials that make up a wall type behave in details and sections.... can't wait.

Thanks for looking at this for me.

[tamas]

I wasn't able to unlock the finish layer and be able to manipulate it in the stacked wall.
What prevented you from doing this? You can unlock the layers of non-stacked wall types only. So you need to edit the wall type that is used in the stacked wall. Then go to your stacked type and set the Top or Base extension values for the just unlocked portion.

Tamas

[tamas]

Now my upper wall type exterior finish shows through my precast sill...
You can use Tools > Join Geometry between the sill and the upper wall to resolve this condition.

[abarrette]

To clarify. I was able to unlock the portion of the wall I wanted to. The issue is that there is no top or bottom extention setting in a stacked wall. It only works when it is inserted as a basic wall, but join geometry does do a better job of representing the situation correctly.

[artitech]

You can use Tools > Join Geometry between the sill and the upper wall to resolve this condition.

I can't get this to work for me..... It joins the upper exterior finish with the masonry sill, but doesn't get rid of the lines that cut through the sill...?? Still as per attached...

[tamas]

To clarify. I was able to unlock the portion of the wall I wanted to. The issue is that there is no top or bottom extention setting in a stacked wall..
Yes, there is.

If you want to change the top extension of the top subwall, or bottom of the bottom subwall, those are instance parameters of the stacked wall, and can be set in the usual instance properties dialog.

The intermediate extensions are controlled by the stacked wall type "Edit Structure" dialog:

Set the appropriate column ("Top" or 'Base") to the extension value when editing the stacked wall type.

The names had to be short for the sake of the UI. I think they are explained in the help.

Tamas

[tamas]

I can't get this to work for me..... It joins the upper exterior finish with the masonry sill, but doesn't get rid of the lines that cut through the sill...?? Still as per attached...
I think the order of the picked elements in Join Geometry is used to decide if the wall cuts the sill, or vice versa. Try to pick them in the opposite order.

Tamas

[artitech]

Tamas,

Thanks, I'll give these a try.

[artitech]

Yes, there is.

The intermediate extensions are controlled by the stacked wall type "Edit Structure" dialog:

Set the appropriate column ("Top" or 'Base") to the extension value when editing the stacked wall type.

Tamas
I tried what you suggested but the results are not what might be expected.

If I change the (intermediate) Base extension to a value that would bring my exterior finish out of the precast sill sweep from my lower wall, it affects the entire upper wall which causes the lower wall to attempt to attach itself again to the upper wall and my lower wall exterior finish comes up through my precast sill sweep again....???

Is there supposed to be away to control the top or base extension of each individual material independantly?

[tamas]

I tried what you suggested but the results are not what might be expected.

If I change the (intermediate) Base extension to a value that would bring my exterior finish out of the precast sill sweep from my lower wall, it affects the entire upper wall which causes the lower wall to attempt to attach itself again to the upper wall and my lower wall exterior finish comes up through my precast sill sweep again....???

Is there supposed to be away to control the top or base extension of each individual material independantly?
You are probably right. When changing the top or base extensions, the other wall will attach. Looks like you need to use a reveal to cut away the unwanted sliver.

Could you post your wall type in a small document? I can take a stab at it.

Thanks,

Tamas

[artitech]

Could you post your wall type in a small document? I can take a stab at it.

Thanks,

Tamas

Tamas,

The file is attached.

Cory

[tamas]

Tamas,

The file is attached.

Cory It appears that you have a choice of either


leave the sill on the lower subwall and add a reveal to it to remove the unwanted stone sliver, or
simply move the sill to the upper subwall.
I think the 2. is a cleaner solution. See attached file.

Tamas

[artitech]

It appears that you have a choice of either

simply move the sill to the upper subwall.

Tamas
I like this solution.

Thank-you.