Check this out!! ( Detail Components Anywhere ) [Archive]

Martin P

2003-05-21, 04:00 PM

Martin,

Put down that cup of coffee (i've taken a closer look) and go out and grab yourself a pint, you've earned it. That is the neatest trick I think I have seen in Revit.

P

I hope my boss feels the same way! I have been messing about with this for most of the day trying to get it worked out! :shock:

Here is one of the families if you fancy a look....

PeterJ

2003-05-21, 04:16 PM

I was trying to get your wall to floor join family to include parametric annotation but I'm not a 'family master' yet so perhaps it was beyond me.

I have to run and get the chief of police from the station (honest) and go for a pint so I'll need to stop there but I think it will be possible to achieve this.

P

sbrown

2003-05-21, 05:02 PM

Great work, that is excellent.

sbrown

2003-05-21, 05:04 PM

can you do this with a profile, that you add to your wall as and integral sweep?

christopher.zoog51272

2003-05-21, 05:41 PM

awesome work Martin!! I owe you beer next time I'm in scotland :D

Good question Scott, I'll have to dig into this a little deeper when I get a minute. Let me know if you get it to work as an integral sweep.

Chad Smith

2003-05-21, 09:45 PM

Hi Martin,

For those that don't have v5.1, could you please post some images.

Thanks.

beegee

2003-05-22, 12:13 AM

Martin,

Have a pint on me too !

I have downloaded one of your familes, but havn't had time to play with it yet. Looking forward to the possibilities.

Cheers

beegee

Martin P

2003-05-22, 07:53 AM

can you do this with a profile, that you add to your wall as and integral sweep?

I dont think so, as sweeps are created from a line draw profile as opposed to an actual family. However I did try doing it as a beam family so you could draw the lines on plan and stretch the ends easily - but as it is a beam, it tries to make all the walls loadbearing, and moves walls when you move it.... hopefully Revit will add a new family types to do this type of thing.

Martin P

2003-05-22, 08:04 AM

Hi Martin,

For those that don't have v5.1, could you please post some images.

Thanks.

OK, here is what you would see, may look too much of a big deal at first, but all the detail appears "automatically" As you can now add detail components to a family that only show when they are cut by the view plane, it is possible to create a family that consists of nothing but this detail, and a line on plan to show where it is....

Martin P

2003-05-22, 08:10 AM

Here it is :oops:

sbrown

2003-05-22, 06:35 PM

Please post your process, step by step, I'm analyzing it and can't figure it out the timber pieces are they detail components loaded in or what?

Martin P

2003-05-23, 08:31 AM

Please post your process, step by step, I'm analyzing it and can't figure it out the timber pieces are they detail components loaded in or what?

Sure,

The timber pieces are as you say detail components loaded in as detail components (a new feature of families in 5.1 , NOT loaded and placed as symbols, or components)

The timber detail components are solid white filled regions, made from 4 traingles - I have attached one here for you.

I have done the family as a generic model, you could do them as wall based, and floor based - I suppose it may be better for some families.

The rest is in the family really, just construct it in either left or right view for stuff you want to appear in a section. Select the detail components you have place and set the visibility to display when cut... that is about it.

sbrown

2003-05-23, 02:00 PM

here is one of the families I just made using this technique.

one is a double top plate and sill plate, place a level at the t.o. wall and place this there and just give it the wall height and you will have the framing members show up. It is stretchable so you can place it and align it to the ends of your wall.

sbrown

2003-05-23, 02:37 PM

Ok, this is just too powerfull you can take an entire wallsection, detail components and linework, create in this form then when ever you cut through your model the whole wall section is there. My mind is spinning right now with the possibilities of creating 2d wall sections with parametrically located detail components that just get loaded in and boom. then you add to them as your component as you go. you can have some stuff display in course some in fine. Its just awesome.

Martin P

2003-05-23, 02:38 PM

here is one of the families I just made using this technique.

Ha ha.... you have not been "working" today have you :D Now the problem is that you will want families like this for everything!! I had to stop myself making loads of them and get on with some of it the old fashioned way, It was so tempting to spend the rest of the week making up these families. Detail sweep families? - is that what we call them? I dont know, but they sure arent generic models anyway!

narlee

2003-05-23, 03:00 PM

sbrown,

How did you get the detail component to be parametric with the top-view symbolic line? Is this what you mean by detail "sweep?"

Martin P.,

You're not a fool, you're a GOD. sbrown is right about the possibilities.

Martin P

2003-05-23, 04:22 PM

sbrown,

Martin P.,

You're not a fool, you're a GOD. sbrown is right about the possibilities.

:oops: :oops: Yes Mrs Martin P. is always saying that to me!! NOT :lol:

Simon.Whitbread

2003-09-30, 12:31 AM

This is great!

But can it be applied to a detail that is sloping? ie a roof?

beegee

2003-09-30, 12:48 AM

No reason why not.

Just make sure that the detail components are locked to a sloping reference plane.

sbrown

2003-09-30, 01:13 PM

I had to abandon this way of working because I pulled off the job and the next guy had no idea how to edit the wall sections and didn't ask, just deleted, so anyway another item for training.

Henry D

2003-09-30, 02:32 PM

Do you apply the double top plate and sill plate sweep by adding it as a profile in the wall assembly editor or do you add it as a separate sweep with a path that follows the walls?

I am asking because I was trying to use the double top plate and sill plate family this weekend by inserting it in the wall assembly as a profile, but it wouldn't appear under the available profiles even though it was loaded in the drawing. What I ended up doing was using the wall assembly editor to insert 2x6 profiles as reveals for the plates and that worked pretty well.

sbrown

2003-09-30, 02:42 PM

Your trying to hard, its not actually a sweep, there is just a line in plan, the length of the line defined the extents to which the detail components will be visible if a section cuts through the line. Note this is all done in the family editor then loaded into the model, its not part of the wall structure. see the files I attached earlier.

David

2003-09-30, 05:08 PM

Fine work Martin, and Scott,

A yeoman's reminder that drawings must be produced, after all.

Exercising the privilege of a novice to a rudimentary question: Why do the extent defining lines have a leg at each end?, and at optional length?

Paul Monsef

2003-09-30, 06:17 PM

OK, i have a dumb question. :oops:

By creating your walls this way aren't you forced to create each wall per floor? or Do you simply use single story walls anyway??

Just wondering...

Martin P

2003-10-02, 10:41 AM

The legs were added to the family I created so that you can use the align tool to alter length, and lock the line to walls and things. I must admit I havent contiued working like this, I found it a bit fiddly at the moment and am living in hope that the developers add some sort of tool specifically to do this... I have no idea if this is something they have looked at though, but I really hope they have, "drawing" the line would be so much bettter - like you do with beams, and you cant use a beam family as the base as it turns all the walls loadbearing and magnetic snaps make it a real pain......

Paul, no question is dumb...

there is no reason to create the walls per level, just the detail lines per level, they arent actually associated to walls (unless you built your own this way), roofs floors, etc, they are completely separate entities..

Where are you all downloading the stuff from? I thought I had removed it??

seriousj

2003-11-26, 07:57 AM

Martin,

Is there any chance of getting the original revit project file for this? I had a look at it a while back and now seem to of misplaced it. :oops:

Cheers,
John

Martin P

2003-11-26, 10:37 AM

Martin,

Is there any chance of getting the original revit project file for this? I had a look at it a while back and now seem to of misplaced it. :oops:

Cheers,
John

I can email it to you along with the familes, mail me with your address at

Martin (at) colinarmstrong (dot) com

I pass it on to you - if I can find it myself!

Cathy Hadley

2004-04-09, 04:13 PM

Martin & Scott, etc...

This idea was raised at our Users Group Meeting last night. I seemed to recall tho that after a time, you guys abandoned this idea... ? Any new thoughts?

Martin, Do you still have the file? Could I get a copy?

Anyone else out there doing more on the whole framing idea for wood construction? I have a potential client who needs to do actual framing elevations of each and every wall... and then of course create a bill of material...

CZH

Scott D Davis

2004-04-09, 04:36 PM

gregcashen

2004-04-09, 04:46 PM

I'd much prefer to see actual framing members modelled like in Chief, Softplan, AllPlan, Vectorworks...

aaronrumple

2004-04-09, 04:49 PM

Home builder's won't be happy until Revit orders the lumber... ;)

Scott D Davis

2004-04-09, 05:14 PM

Here's a screen shot of what I'm after....

p.s. this isn't a real Revit 'screen shot' it's been poto-chopped!

Cathy Hadley

2004-04-09, 06:38 PM

And then it will be the software's fault, for that change order... JK

Greg, Do you think TPTB are working on such a beast? any kind of residential framing in those lines?

There is really two things going on here... one is the hope that they could actually model the framing... and then do the BOM

And then two... maybe sooner than later... add in this whole 2D drafting repersentation idea. More for the Architect who drafts up the framing plans, for the Calc & Sketch Structural. Or just for some pre-detailed sections...

I seem to recall tho this idea was abandoned awhile back... I'm not too interested in going down the path already taken just to find the same dead end.

CZH

gregcashen

2004-04-09, 07:43 PM

Greg, Do you think TPTB are working on such a beast? any kind of residential framing in those lines?

I don't know. I know that automatic framing has been discussed, that there is the beginning of this sort of functionality in 6.1 with the ability to place framing by grids.

nrenfro

2004-04-15, 03:35 PM

Ok, I have started to work on creating some families to help in detailing sections and I am convinced that this has a lot of potential. I have been modifying and playing with Scott’s family as it is the only one left (I knew I should have downloaded the then when they were first posted). Could someone take the time to explain the concepts at work here. I have been unable to figure a few things. Using Scott’s wall family as an example I am perplexed by the following.

1) I assume that this is a “Generic Floor” based family Dose this have to be the case? I think that the more of these I assemble I may run into some limitations. I was thinking their may be some use to having something I could simply place in a sectional drawing that was wall based.

2) How is the orientation line in the plan connected to the information in the elevation? I have tried to start from scratch but have not been able to uncover the relationship between the objects, so when I insert the model and cut a section I see the correct information. Currently I get nothing

3) In general how do I control the line styles from with in the family? I would like to have dashed lines for instance and have found this to be grayed out as an option in the settings.

I have visions of creating some wonderful timesaving tools now I have a little time to think about it all.
Thanks in advance for any guidance

Martin P

2004-04-15, 03:41 PM

I had an idea the other day...

If we could apply the new "Repeating Detail" tool to the wall properties in plan and section, this would be awesome! You could lay out 2D representation of studs, that are defined at 16" OC, and anytime you cut that wall, the 2D elements would be displayed. The insulation tool could be applied to a wall type, rather than adding it to individual views.

what do you think? wish list item?
THIS THREAD (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=2976)

about 4 weeks ahead of you :lol: and the repeat detail tool I honestly thought when I read the 6.1 review was going to be able to do the thing in this thread - I was very dissapointed when I realise you couldnt make the detail appear in sections etc :cry: I hope it was something they were/are trying to add...

adegnan

2004-09-01, 01:10 PM

I'm trying to create a new repeating detail family. I tried using the "detail family template" but when I load it, it does not appear as a repeating detail. Likewise, I tried to find the ones that are pre-loaded into the Revit template and I cannot find them to use and edit.

Now, is it possible to do what Scott Davis illustrated above with both the stud and insulation?

Or, can I have the studs automatically appear in plan, when cut by the plan, as Martin shows with the repeating detail cut in section?

Or am I mistaken on the function and purpose?

THANK!

J. Grouchy

2004-09-01, 01:33 PM

cut a section anywhere through this simple model - notice anything on the section???? how good is that!!!!

From the original post...
What simple model? Did you attach a file? There is nothing here...

I'm lost...what is this thread all about?

Wes Macaulay

2004-09-01, 02:55 PM

Greg, Do you think TPTB are working on such a beast? any kind of residential framing in those lines?TPTB? What's that? You guys are talking in code...

PeterJ

2004-09-01, 03:10 PM

TPTB? What's that? You guys are talking in code...

The powers that be?

I'm guessing

Scott D Davis

2004-09-01, 03:46 PM

This thread had been revived after being started back in 2003. The original attachment is probably gone, due to the fact that back on the Zoogdesign boards, we had a limited amount of storage for attachments.

What it is talking about, is placing 2D components in 3D families, so that when the 3D is cut, the 2D detail shows. This saves one from modeling intricate details which hog space and slow down the program.

J. Grouchy

2004-09-01, 05:50 PM

I was wondering about that...but never got into trying it out. I'll have to play around a bit and figure it out.

Yman

2004-09-02, 02:26 AM

It works great if you have time to set them up in your families. Martin did awesome figuring it out back then. Take the time and you will see. We are just now getting around to doing it in our families.

Y

adegnan

2004-09-02, 02:37 AM

Which families do you set up? Do these repeating details go in walls automatically if you set them up? Or which families did he attach them to?

(I'm looking at SD's image that is still posted; I cannot remember exactly what Martin originally posted.)

PeterJ

2004-09-02, 05:43 AM

I believe Martin posted a simple family that was essentially a model line that he could attach to the edge of a floor and it would show in every section that cut it all the framing elements that occurred at the wall/floor junction, very handy for you timber framing people, but you could alter that for masonry to show a joist hanger or restraint ties and so on, or independent of construction you could have it show a cornice and a skirting/base board.

Useful design tool but I don't know if Martyn ever had the time to develop it or not.

Martin P

2004-09-02, 12:01 PM

Blimey!! this post has had a few hits. I wonder how many people have been left wondering what exactly it was about!! yes, I had to remove the file at zoog as I had limited space. I have done a quick version of it here for you to see. But basically it is a line on plan (or elevation) that when cut shows any detail you wish - like a sweep profile with NO 3D, and lots of detail. Imagine eaves details, ridge, wall/floor connections etc etc etc etc.......

It doesnt work well as a generic model - You have to be able to set it as "displays only when cut" for a start, but the main wish was basically to make a new family category for these objects so their visiblity can be controlled properly, and to allow the line to be placed by drawing or picking it rather thank placing it as an object. It would be a very powerful but simple tool if these small additions were made to Revit..... 7.0, maybe... please :) at the moment it is close but not really worth using I found.

sarah.auffet

2004-12-13, 02:20 PM

martin - i'm not seeing anything attached on this thread to open. could you re-post whatever it was? i was looking for a cut pattern for walls that includes studs and insulation, and i got directed to this thread. is that what you had accomplished? thanks! ~sarah

Martin P

2004-12-13, 03:21 PM

You'd be better using repeating details for the studs and a hexagonal fill pattern for the insulation....... I dont think the method in here is your answer really . Try the fill pattern posted at the end of this thread.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=7305

narlee

2004-12-13, 05:33 PM

Am I missing something? I haven't found the original model Martin was referring to in his initial post.

Geof Narlee

beegee

2004-12-13, 09:26 PM

Geoff,

Flip back a page and see Martin's post 3rd from bottom.

narlee

2004-12-13, 11:17 PM

Thanks, beegee.

Alex Page

2008-03-28, 06:45 AM

To bring back this post (for the newer users) how are you 'oldies using this now, 2008?

Has anyone looked at setting these up with 'generic model line based' families? Seems if that worked, this would be a absolute stunner! (just like my/ my wifes newborn baby):mrgreen:)
sorry...Im still over the moon:mrgreen:

crikey, I cant stop smiling:mrgreen:

But seriously, I feel a little bit worried about this technique: Your BIM model is meant to show things correctly - if you automate detail components into, say, walls, they will also show in conditions that are incorrect (ie: if your section goes through a door or window etc etc)

Grumple

2009-07-03, 02:44 PM

3rd Revival! :)

Any progress or advances with this???

bulletproofdesign

2009-07-04, 11:27 AM

I thought the reason you could load a detail component into a profile was so it would be displayed when a sweep made of that profile was cut? This doesn't seem to work :(

Does anyone know how to do this?

Peace

tyler.205627

2009-10-15, 08:46 PM

To bring back this post (for the newer users)
But seriously, I feel a little bit worried about this technique: Your BIM model is meant to show things correctly - if you automate detail components into, say, walls, they will also show in conditions that are incorrect (ie: if your section goes through a door or window etc etc)

This is definitely a problem.

I've set up a simple stud wall to show the sill and 2x top plate when cut in section by adding a detail component to the sweep profile run along the top and bottom of the wall. This is great when cutting the building where the intersection with the roof is flat (see JPEG) but not so well with the soped intersection if you want to run the top plate.

Also see photo example to clarify the situation.

Anyone found a good way to do this or are we back to adding detail components to the section manually after we've cut them?

Martin P

2009-10-16, 11:36 AM

What a blast from the past :).......

I never spent much more time developing this idea further myself - I was kind of hoping that it would end being refined into a new tool / function in Revit where you could draw different coloured lines with a detail attached that appeared in section - and break the the line where you didnt want the detail attached, ie doors etc. Not happened yet unfortunately, I am still just sticking details over the top at the moment when I need them, and still hoping this is developed into a fully functioning new tool/family by Autodesk someday?? Be interesting too see what others have done, if anything though.

Phillip_Miller

2009-10-16, 07:01 PM

dcretsinger

2009-10-18, 08:31 PM

Hi Martin

Using the API I have 2d Framing working in sections on windows doors and walls. Works pretty well most of the time. Check out the sample below.

http://www.kiwicodes.co.nz/SamplePages/LintelGraphics.aspx

Cheers

Phillip

Phillip,

Some pretty cool detailing add-ons you've created there! Any thought of trying to do an Imperial/American version of them?

Thanks,

Dean

Phillip_Miller

2009-10-18, 10:27 PM

Phillip,

Some pretty cool detailing add-ons you've created there! Any thought of trying to do an Imperial/American version of them?

Thanks,

Dean

Hi Dean. Thanks for the comments. Yes there has been some thought. What do you see would be most usefull in the US market?

Cheers

Phillip

dcretsinger

2009-10-20, 02:50 AM

Phillip,

I'd say that the upcoming 'wall framing' looks the most interesting and in some ways seems to combine the 'lintel' (we call the headers in the States) and 'studs' functions. I think you could probably pull this off using the IRC building code -- for residential -- and the IBC for everything else.

But the trick would definately be absolving yourself of any structural liability for the calculations your software produces. Seems like a fairly powerful software package but you'd have to have a disclaimer saying that all final drawings produced must be reviewed by a licensed architect or engineer............

Definitely good work...... love to see it here. One of my big complaints with Revit is the number of dialogue boxes you sometimes need to open just to get at the data you want to change. Your software seems to take a much better approach to this issue by placing all the info in one place rather than scattered all over...

Thanks,

Dean

adam.wooff.226577

2009-10-21, 08:21 AM

OK,
UK Interior design perspective. My firm is currently investigating Revit and I ahd a colleague look at how this might be applied to commercial Interior Design work. For us we saw the benefits at cut edges of elements such as raised floors and ceilings, partition deflection heads and skirtings as wellas the potential for arranging studs around clear openings.

Currently awaiting decision from management