Dell 24" Flat Screen

[Lashers]

Anyone using one of these? or the other Dell UltraSharp range? I am just wondering if you are generally happy with the quality - I am a bit torn between 2 x 19" or to go for the 24".

Cheers

[abarrette]

I wish I had such a dilema. :wink:

[sjsl]

We have one guy who just bought Revit and a 24" Dell. Needless to say he is very pleased with the quality of the image and it makes a dandy hand wamer during very cold A/c days in the offie. Just do it!

[muttlieb]

I've always got my eye on deals for the 24" WS. One of these days I plan on picking one up. We've got a couple of 19" UltraSharps in the office and I am very pleased with them. I think they are a great value.

[Lashers]

I've always got my eye on deals for the 24" WS. One of these days I plan on picking one up. We've got a couple of 19" UltraSharps in the office and I am very pleased with them. I think they are a great value.
Muttlieb, the Dell UK site is offering 30% discount on the 24" screens! I assume you would be getting a similar deal where you are!

Thanks for the feedback guys, I will mull it over until monday! This looks to be the big money weekend and I am thinking of buying MaxwellR as well! Getting the shakes! ha . .

[MartyC]

Hey Guys,

I just bought one of these, had it for only a couple of days.

All I can say is AWESOME!!!! As far as I am concerned, this monitor was made for Revit.

Also bought an Ultrasharp 17" and just as good. I am definately a Dell monitor customer for the future.

Price here in Oz varies from week to week, I got in on a A$1,350.00 price, best I have seen so far. Closest equvalent monitor was 23"BenQ at $2,300.00, and this beats it by miles.

I figure this is where I make my income, it should be the best.

Happy shopping

CheersM

[Max Lloyd]

Nice setup Marty. Hey, I recognise that chair too! Was that an impulse buy after the recent thread?

[MartyC]

I have had the Aeron for about four years, couldn't work without it.

Damn, I love this widescreen!!..........anyone want a 19" flat crt?? Nah, didnt think so!

Hey Lashers, don't hold back!!

CheersM

[muttlieb]

Muttlieb, the Dell UK site is offering 30% discount on the 24" screens! I assume you would be getting a similar deal where you are!
Lashers, yes, right now I could get the Dell 24" WS for 35% off which would be US$780. That is a great deal, but I just spent US$1,500 on a new workstation and we recently upgraded some of our network gear so the hardware budget is a bit thin right now. And...


Thanks for the feedback guys, I will mull it over until monday! This looks to be the big money weekend and I am thinking of buying MaxwellR as well! Getting the shakes! ha . .
Funny, I got caught up in all the excitement about the Maxwell posts in the gallery and on impulse bought Maxwell Friday afternoon. I was bummed that I didn't get my order in soon enough so I'll have to wait until Monday to get my license and download info. I had hoped I would have it to play with over the weekend. So the Dell WS will have to wait until another day. But good deals show up all the time and the price will only come down. But that half price offer on Maxwell will not last much longer. I say go for Maxwell!

[iru69]

Yes it is a nice setup, Marty... this is off topic, but I couldn't help but notice you have an Antec P180 case... did you put that system together yourself? That case is suppose to be extremely quiet with several integrated layers of sound insulation - is that why you got it? Have you noticed a difference? Would you recommend it? Quiet computing is a bit of a hobby of mine.

[MartyC]

Hi Irrusun,

Its been a big couple of weeks, yes, I finished building the PC last week also.

The P180 is a very cool piece of engineering, excellent layout inside, beautifully finished and quiet even though it has three standard case fans. I do hear a little air induction noise only at the moment as I have set the fans to run at full speed, but the processor and video card fans are silent. All in all, with five fans in total, the case is remarkably quiet.

Did a lot of research and settled on the P180 case and an Antec neo-power 450w PS. The combo was a little expensive but the extra was well worth it. The main deciders were quality, quietness, reliability, sophisticated aesthetic, no neon!!, good cooling, and ease of installation for a first-time PC assembler. I feel it measures up perfectly, and delivers totally on the marketing info. Yes I would recommend it.

(Sorry bout the offtopic!)

CheersM

[dg]

I have been using mine for a while now and I could not imagine how I managed previously on a 15" CRT, or even a single 19"LCD.

[Roger Evans]

Very persuasive photos .. but don't know if I'll be able to afford one cos I just asked Santa for a new brain ..

Has anyone used the 20" version Widescreen & how does that compare to 19" CRT??

[iru69]

Has anyone used the 20" version Widescreen & how does that compare to 19" CRT??
I have not used a 20" WS, but one thing I've taken into account when researching these screens is how the aspect ratio affects the screen dimensions.

For instance, the 24" WS is significantly more generous than a 19" in width, but just a tad more so in height - equivalent to a 20".

Take the same WS aspect ratio (16:9) and apply it to a 20" screen, and suddenly your screen is a lot shorter - equivalent to a 16" (4:3). And the native pixel count in the vertical direction is even higher as well - so while you'll get more screen real estate from a pixel point of view, you better have eyes like a hawk..

Here's a link (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7608_7-1016109-4.html) to a "calculator" that shows what I mean or just draw it up in Revit using 16:9 for wide screen and 4:3 for standard screen (note that 16:9 is typical for WS, but ratios might be slightly different depending on manufacturer).

[muttlieb]

Has anyone used the 20" version Widescreen & how does that compare to 19" CRT??
Roger, I assume you are referring to the actual size difference between the 20" WS and a regular 19" screen. I haven't used the 20" WS, but here is a graphic comparison of the 19" regular, 20.1" WS and 24" WS. Of course this doesn't take into account the different native resolutions for each monitor.

Edit: darn, irusun beat me to it...

[iru69]

Muttlieb was thinking along the exact same lines - and has a pretty diagram to explain it as well!

Is that a parametric Revit family you can post? ;)

[muttlieb]

Marty & dg, what graphics cards are you using to drive your 24" WS?

[Roger Evans]

Roger, I assume you are referring to the actual size difference between the 20" WS and a regular 19" screen. I haven't used the 20" WS, but here is a graphic comparison of the 19" regular, 20.1" WS and 24" WS. Of course this doesn't take into account the different native resolutions for each monitor.

Edit: darn, irusun beat me to it...


Thanks guys the diagram says it all ~ 24" or stay with what I've got

I noticed the bit on the Dell Site about Graphics Cards & drivers as well ~ no mention of my 9600 XT 256 so I will have to check this

[Scott D Davis]

Any of you use the 24" LCD as a television as well as a computer monitor? I'm looking to get a Media Center PC, and use the 24" LCD as a dual-role monitor.

[muttlieb]

Is that a parametric Revit family you can post? ;)

Let's not go there... :Oops:

[Lashers]

My this has taken off a bit! I think I am going to try and move on both - MaxwellR first though! Marty, that desk is too clean . .is it a problem with getting a 24"? You just look at it and don't actually do any work?? ha . .

DG, I like that dual screen setup! Anyone tried a TFT and a CRT together?

Irusun, when I built this current system I decided to use the akasa Eclipse63 (i think the no. is correct) It takes 120 fans, which will generally run things much quiter . . no built in sound dampers though, but should not be difficult . .lots of room inside!

Scott, I havent tried viewing tv on a monitor, but I have tried using my 42" Plasma with my laptop which was fun! Just for a slide show, but i want to try working on it one day . . .

muttlieb, great diagram! Dell has a comparison on the Monitor screen banner that shows the heads up difference on mouse over.
http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/monitors?c=uk&cs=ukbsdt1&l=en&s=bsd

laters
lashers

[Max Lloyd]

Hmmmm........42" plasma.....more things to buy!

I have got a projector though, very cool for running the computer through as well as tv and occasional PS2.

A little bit off topic, but I was sent a mailshot through for a new desk recently. Its made of white corian, has the computer built elegantly into the desk (the dvd drive, everything is built into it). Its very elegant & modern and comes with a matching sideboard / cabinet. A touch out of my price range though....£750,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did I mention the very large diamond embedded into it!
It also has central locking (like your car!)

I haven't got any weblink to hand which is a shame, but I'll try and dig it out so you can see it.
Although this (http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/sep2005/id20050929_079298.htm) link does talk about the desk at the very bottom of the page.

[dg]

Marty & dg, what graphics cards are you using to drive your 24" WS?

I had a Gainward Fx 5200 128MB (nvidea) and this worked fine. I then got a PNY Quadro FX700 128MB, but I can't see any performance difference.

In fact the Gainward would let me have quite a few windows open with hardware acceleration on, but wih the quadro I have to turn hardware acceleration off. And views with shadows take an age.

I have to connect the dell via analog, and the AOC via digital. I could not get full screen with the dell on the digital connection. However, I can't see any difference in quality.

On a future upgrade, I would think I will just use a beefy games graphic card.

[MartyC]

Hi Guys,

Ok, the Dell 24" does PiP so when I get a TV card I will be seriously distracted, especially a digital one. The monitor takes SVideo so you can directly connect a DVD player; therefore, connecting to a media PC is no worries.

My video card is a Sapphire ATI X800gt 250Mb. It is a very mid-level gaming card, doesnt help much with Revit but is a temp measure until a good nVidea 7800 drops to a sensible price. (the ATI will go into the media centre PC I will build next!! Got the bug now!). The ATI runs every other type of graphics on the screen super fast tho, great little card.

I have read that one guy runs his 24" no probs with an ageing GeForce 4 Ti 4200 128Mb. From what I understand anything more than a simple PCI card is ok, so long as it can support 1920x1200 and has a digital output.

Did I mention the Dell's 4 port USB hub and memory card reader........this thing rocks,really!!

CheersM

ps DG, damn, that two monitor thing is too good.........I think I must get another now!!!!$$$$

[mlgatzke]

I currently run dual 20" Dell LCDs on an nVidia Quadra 3000FX card using DVI outs. These are awesome. My students love them as well and actually seem to be more productive using them. Hmmmm, students . . . . . productive . . . . . now that's something I'm not used to saying in the same sentence.

I can't imagine running dual 24" LCDs. You'd almost need SLI architecture for that.

[Lashers]

...Hmmmm........42" plasma.....more things to buy!...I wish I had the cash to buy more! Could have made a nice little business there! A client of my previous employ, had 75 to offload because they downsized their build program and the supplier would have charged them £1,000 to restock! So we got offered them for that price!

I had just set up my show so thought I was taking a risk by going for one! damm . . .

[Roger Evans]

I wish I had the cash to buy more! Could have made a nice little business there! A client of my previous employ, had 75 to offload because they downsized their build program and the supplier would have charged them £1,000 to restock! So we got offered them for that price!

I had just set up my show so thought I was taking a risk by going for one! damm . . .

That is called "a Gift Horse" .... & the 2nd rule of business is?

[GuyR]

It's official (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/magazine/16guru.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5090&en=c8985a80d74cefc1&ex=1287115200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) , big screens will make you more productive!

Guy

[christopher.zoog51272]

I just replaced my 2 Viewsonic 21" Flat CRTs with one Apple 23 Cinema HD (http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html) display today, and man what a difference a wide screen makes. Sooo much more room. Plus now I can pretend that I'm using revit on a Mac ;) Wish I could have got the 30" display, but it only runs on a G5 mac :(

That dell looks like a great deal, I would jump on it if you are considering a large display.

Also got a new Athlon X2 4400 dual core workstation to go with it! Woo Hoo. :D

[Andrew Dobson]

I have two dell 17" screens at work running at 1280x1024, so the combined resolution is a little higher than that of a single 24" wide screen. The actual physical screen space is presumably a lot bigger too. I use one screen for AutoCAD (no choice about that), and another with my pallettes and email on it.

At £200 for each 17" and £600 for the wide screen, it is also 30% more expensive.

I prefer this set up to my single 21" CRT at home, although if you want to display a whole page on one screen my 21" CRT (or the 24" wide screen) would be much better.

What could be ideal is a 24" wide screen for AutoCAD/Revit and 19" backup monitor (for email or site photos etc) this is very expensive though!

[Lashers]

Bump! Anyone tried a TFT and CRT together?

[Batman]

What could be ideal is a 24" wide screen for AutoCAD/Revit and 19" backup monitor (for email or site photos etc) this is very expensive though!Which is just what I am about to do; recently got a 19" TFT (about $450 AU) and am about to get the 24". If i can get the 24" at a price similar to Marty's then not too much for any increase in productivity.

Marty, could you tell me where you got yours at that price?

Zoog, nice machine, have you run the bench test on it?

[iru69]

Bump! Anyone tried a TFT and CRT together?
Do you mean on the same computer using one video card? Yes.

Not sure why you were asking the question the first time. If the video card can drive two monitors, it doesn't care what kind of monitors are attached.

The only thing you need to look for beyond that are the connectors. LCDs generally use the DVI connector and CRTs the VGA connector - but you can almost always use an adapter connector to go from DVI to VGA or VGA to DVI.

[dg]

Which is just what I am about to do; recently got a 19" TFT (about $450 AU) and am about to get the 24". If i can get the 24" at a price similar to Marty's then not too much for any increase in productivity.

Marty, could you tell me where you got yours at that price?


If you are after a Dell the thing to do is, first do a web search for discount coupons or current or forthcoming Dell offers, if you are happy with the price then order online.

But you may get a better deal if you ring up the call centre in india and ask them for their best quote. Then say something like - "my friend/colleague's account manager just bought one for [insert realistic amount] less than that. Will you do it for this price if I buy now? If you get no joy then decline the quote and phone a few times and you should strike lucky with a different operator and get a discount off their initial quote.

I also understand that the account managers sell on targets, and at certain times of the month or week, they will offfer a good discount to meet their targets.

[Lashers]

Irusun, I am going to get the Dell, but was wondering if there were any conflicts that anyone came accross - I will reuse my current 19" CRT when I make another machine, but I thought that if I can sort out the desk space I might try using both! Thanks for your note.

dg, thanks for that! i was going to place the order on the net tonight - I still have a few days to play, so will follow your advice.

[Roger Evans]

I will reuse my current 19" CRT when I make another machine, but I thought that if I can sort out the desk space I might try using both!

That is sensible But it is the desk space which is the controlling factor in CRT location
I would be very interested in your report back on the visual screen differences ~ (I had 2 CRT for a while~ one good one budget & could see the diff between) . The Primary monitor best goes on the left with Revit as the dg photo (somewhere above) shows.

I'd guess that in a few months you'd be wanting a 19 LCd as well (for nothing more than office aesthetics & of course the opportunity for another personal treat)

[MartyC]

Which is just what I am about to do; recently got a 19" TFT (about $450 AU) and am about to get the 24". If i can get the 24" at a price similar to Marty's then not too much for any increase in productivity.

Marty, could you tell me where you got yours at that price?



www.dell.com.au are promoting the 2405FPW at A$1,399.00 this week on the website. A$400.00 off the full retail price.

An additional note, I also got the 'optional soundbar attachment'. Works ok when sound output adjusted right, but I am sticking to my normal desktop speakers with better bass and depth. The Soundbar was a A$75.00 add-on.

A couple of weeks on and I Luuurve my monitor!!! I could not ever go back now!!

CheersM

[Batman]

Yes, I saw the offer on Dell.

Mucho gracias for the advice Marty.

[Lashers]

Guess who is playing with his . . . .sorry thought I was writing to my wife? . . Just thought you guys would like to know the my new 24" monitor is doing just fine! I suspect I will be having a monitor tan by Friday though! ha . .

[Roger Evans]

Just thought you guys would like to know the my new 24" monitor is doing just fine! I suspect I will be having a monitor tan by Friday though! ha . .

So ??? How does it compare with 19" CRT ~ Image/ crispness/ resolution/ colours etc etc ???

[Lashers]

So ??? How does it compare with 19" CRT ~ Image/ crispness/ resolution/ colours etc etc ???
Roger, It was so simple to set up that I had to double check things cause I could not believe it was that easy! Its sharp, crisp (smoking bacon!) resolution - I have never worked with such well defined linework, since I last worked on a drawing board! I was working on a detail where two medium lines were next to each other - on the CRT it looked like one extra thick line, on THE 24 they showed as separate lines . . . . colours seem compatible with my CRT, but I don't have them side by side yet (no room).

It does light the landing at night, so I guess it might be a bit bright, but I haven't fiddled with this as yet - have a couple of deadlines looming.

All in, very happy . .would recommend everyone gets one, wish I could have ordered another one myself! Offer ends today! I did as DG suggested and called Dell, the chap gave me another £8.00 off (that made all the difference!) something I guess but all in delivered and VAT - £595. I can give you his no. if you are interested???

[Roger Evans]

Cheers Lashers

I'll have to wait until they come up in a sale again

Just a thought though will Wacom now be producing a widescreen tablet?

I've kind of settled on trying an Intuous A6 for starters but also remembered you would be digging out your old intuous for a retry ~ have you had time to play with this set up on widescreen yet?

[Lashers]

. . . . . I've kind of settled on trying an Intuous A6 for starters but also remembered you would be digging out your old intuous for a retry ~ have you had time to play with this set up on widescreen yet?
Not yet, I have a client meeting to review their extension design tommorrow morning . . . yea . .I just started!! But now that I have the desk space I will try it over the weekend!

Its great not having to zoom in and out sooo much now! :-)

[jvoight]

I recently started using one of the 24" lcd monitors at work. Its even larger than i imagined.

I've been drooling over this monitor for a while now. I started a new job on monday, when I arrived there was a 15" lcd on my desk. The boss said that its supposed to be a larger 17 or 19. Then two days later this showed up. I hope its not a mistake, and the boss chokes when he sees the price. I kinda feel like an @ss since the largest screen anyone else has is 17".

[Lashers]

I recently started using one of the 24" lcd monitors at work. Its even larger than i imagined.

I've been drooling over this monitor for a while now. I started a new job on monday, when I arrived there was a 15" lcd on my desk. The boss said that its supposed to be a larger 17 or 19. Then two days later this showed up. I hope its not a mistake, and the boss chokes when he sees the price. I kinda feel like an @ss since the largest screen anyone else has is 17".
Heh Heh . . . but you love it . .don't you?1

[jvoight]

Heh Heh . . . but you love it . .don't you?1

Yeah I got over feeling like an @ss. In about 5 min.

I'm not sure if it helps my cause though. I'm trying to convert the office to revit, everyone except the boss has a preconceived notion that revit is bad. This is going to be tough!!!
This forum give me plenty of fire power though. Thanks everyone.

[Roger Evans]

Yeah I got over feeling like an @ss. In about 5 min.

everyone except the boss has a preconceived notion that revit is bad. .

How do they get that kind of Mindset? What is that notion based on?

[jvoight]

How do they get that kind of Mindset? What is that notion based on?

I found out yesterday that its because they haven't seen good examples of architecture done with revit and think there designs will be limited. I'm sure they haven't look hard though. I took one guy to augi and showed them some examples from there revit gallery. But I think the real reason is that they are afraid of change.

I'm not an architect, but a drafter/ designer/ computer geek (i lack a lot of artistic ability), I would think that an architect would be excited about spending more time designing rather than checking and rechecking schedules and bom's. They just dont understand, and are afraid.

I'm going to keep at them and prove them wrong. The revolution has begun, resistance is futile!!!!

[Lashers]

jv - ask your reseller if there is a revit guru near you, see if (because he is using revit, ha) he has a couple of hours to spare and get a session in the office to watch him create a small project - back to topic - the whole office can watch on your 24" SCREEN!!

[Batman]

I got my 24 inch a few days back. It is a great screen.

This screen does have a very high default brightness and the light emission is quite an issue for me as I am used to keeping the screens brightness relative in strength to the room light level. I have figured (for me) that headaches and eye strain have more to do with the monitor brightness than anything else such as posture, clarity or resolution. So instead of keeping the light levels high in the room I keep them ambient (natural light) and keep the light emission from the screen low as low as possible.

Most importantly for me is the ability to adjust the brightness / contrast easily. With the Dell 24 inch if you go DVI you loose the monitor Contrast setting for some reason. So i run it as D-sub to have both the Brightness and Contrast settings available. Controlling brightness / contrast settings through the graphics card is too finicky for my liking.

Also the monitor is actually a 16:10 aspect not the standard 16:9.

I have noticed that the maximum refresh on the Dell 24" is 60 Hertz where as on most flat panels they are around 75 hertz.

Does anyone know if this is as important on LCD's as it is / was with CRT's??

[zanzibarbob7]

All this talk about the 24" has given me the itch. I currently have 2, 20.5" Dell flat screens but the 24" sounds and looks so good. Hate to get rid of either of the flat screens. Can you run three? Not sure I would be more productive but it would be cool. I'm currently running a NVIDIA Quadro FX 2000, which I was advised, at the time, was great for Revit. The computer was built around Revit function but it is a little over a year old, and things change so fast in the hardware world.

What would be needed to run three monitors? I see that configuration in newsrooms and weather rooms often so it can't be too complicated.

Just curious!!

[Batman]

I'm pretty sure you would need another video card, either one that can support 3 ports or dual cards (may need to be linked). Not 100% sure though.

[iru69]

What would be needed to run three monitors? I see that configuration in newsrooms and weather rooms often so it can't be too complicated.
All you need is another video card (I say this with some authority having read about it, but I've never tried it myself). However, since it's unlikely your motherboard has more than one AGP (or PCIe) slot, the second video card would need to be a PCI based card. Depending on how cheap you go and the speed of your computer, you might see some performance degradation (in Revit) on the display running off the PCI card.

If you were serious about doing it, you might want to try and contact the mb manufacturer about it, or at least make sure you can return the card if you run into a problem with your particular mb.

Maxtrox makes cards with up to four ports, and you can put multiple cards in a single computer, so that's probably what you've seen in news rooms, etc. However, my impression is that Maxtrox cards really aren't a good fit for Revit.

[Roger Evans]

I get the impression you would be wasting more time in doing it & trying to make it work than you would by just putting up with the problems you would have with two

ie No real benefit at all .. but I do know someone who could be interested in the spare monitor

[Lashers]

A 24 and a 20 next to each other would be . .the dogs b . . . the three together would be (unfair on the rest of us ha) a flight simulator! Just plain unnecessary (cause I can't have it)

In a helpful note, if you had a SLI compliant mobo, and a couple of SLI Nvidia Graphics cards, you should be able to have 2 DVI and 2 D-subs. The SLI cards are mounted like twins so there should not be an operational hit! Methinks!

[zanzibarbob7]

Lashers,

I admire your envy, and would still like to have three monitors, just because I can. I will contact my manufacturer, Xi, and see what they have to say. I see the 24"' monitors are reasonable on Ebay. I haven't had a flight simulator on my machine since the days where i did that for a living in Alaska.

Probably will be too much trouble and to those elitists, it would be like having a three thousand dollar bike unless you could do a sub 60 minute time trial.

[aaronrumple]

Lashers,

Probably will be too much trouble and to those elitists, it would be like having a three thousand dollar bike unless you could do a sub 60 minute time trial.
Everyone needs a $3K bike. Actually several. Come to think of it - these days $3K just gets you a nice frame.

[iru69]

Probably will be too much trouble...
Technically, it really should not that complicated... plug in the new video card, boot Windows, load driver. What would probably get more complicated is which video is the primary (which is initialized first). If the FX2000 is the primary, no problem. If the cheaper add-in card is primary, then you might get stuck running Revit on your main screen using a sub-performing video card. That's where things might get complicated - trying to switch the initialization order (sometimes there's a BIOS setting specifically for this purpose).

If it doesn't work at all, it would most likely be because the AGP/PCIe slot is automatically disabled by the BIOS if another graphics card is plugged into one the PCI slots. This seems unlikely, but that's why I'd suggest talking to someone familiar with your hardware.

I would agree that it may be more trouble to manage all those screens than it's worth.

[Adam Mac]

The P180 is a very cool piece of engineering, excellent layout inside, beautifully finished and quiet even though it has three standard case fans. I do hear a little air induction noise only at the moment as I have set the fans to run at full speed, but the processor and video card fans are silent.

Hi Marty - sorry i'm going to be offtopic here as well.
RE: P180 case (as well)

I've just had a machine built for me with the P180 case, but i'm not at all happy with the fan noise or (more so) the running temperatures.
I've got the Asus P4LD2 mobo 3.6 Ghz
2G ram
Antec 400W PSU

I was just wondering if you knew what temps your machine's running at? (including ambient temp.?) Or if you've any idea what would be ideal, as i can't find anything that states "....the optimum/recommended temperatures for this CPU/mobo are...".
My readings are: 26 deg. room temp (a/c)
56 deg CPU @ idle (fan speed 1188 rpm, setting OPTIMUM)
39 deg bobo (fan 1240 rpm)

Comments/advice anyone?

TIA

Adam

[iru69]

I've just had a machine built for me with the P180 case, but i'm not at all happy with the fan noise or (more so) the running temperatures.
A few things...

When you say you're not happy with the fan noise, do you mean relative to a typical Dell computer or to what you were expecting?

The P4 @ 3.6GHz is a *hot* cpu. 56C is slightly on the warm side for "idle"... I would expect high 40s - I'm not aware of any way to get that fast a P4 much lower than that without running (what I'd consider to be) loud fans.

What kind of temps are you seeing during, let's say, a rendering? As long as you're not regularly getting into the high 60s, you're probably okay. I believe 71C is about the cut-off point for your cpu.

Are you using the stock CPU fan that came with the P4? That's considered a medium to medium-loud fan. Even the application and type of the thermal paste used between the cpu and the seat of the CPU heatsink can be the difference between a relatively stable CPU and one that's going to overheat (maybe they didn't get a good seat when they installed the CPU).

Do you have any case fans. You probably should have at least one case fan going at least at a minimum speed.

Of course, running cool is the enemy of quiet.

You're going to have a hard time getting away with the quietest cpu fans out there at 3.6GHz, but there still are some fairly quiet models out there.

Use only quiet case fans.

I don't know what model that Antec 400 Watt is (maybe the SmartPower?)... but you can do better.

Does your video card also have a fan? Those small, fast spinning fans can make a lot of noise.

Hard drive? Unbeknownst to many, hard drives can be one of the loudest components in a computer. People often mistake the spin noise of a hard drive for fan noise.

If you want to make a serious run at making your computer quieter, there's a great website and forum at www.silentpcreview.com.

[Adam Mac]

Hi irusun - thanks for the reply!


/bWhen you say you're not happy with the fan noise, do you mean relative to a typical Dell computer or to what you were expecting?/b

I guess it'd be to what i was expecting - so that's not crucial. I'm more interested in learning what is the "norm" for my specs.


What kind of temps are you seeing during, let's say, a rendering? As long as you're not regularly getting into the high 60s, you're probably okay. I believe 71C is about the cut-off point for your cpu.

That's what i'm after....! I do have 2 case fans (1 input, 1 extractor)
Generally when i start manipulating a building in "hidden line" mode the CPU temp will hover around 58-61 degs and doesn't get much greater than that when rendering although the fans kick in (3050 rpm).


Are you using the stock CPU fan that came with the P4? That's considered a medium to medium-loud fan.

Yes - stock standard - maybe i could look at that.


Does your video card also have a fan?

Yes - Leadtek Quadro FX540. Can't do much about that.

Thanks again for your suggestions - i'm feeling a bit better about it now although am about to go and visit that site you suggested....!

Adam.

[iru69]

Thanks again for your suggestions - i'm feeling a bit better about it now although am about to go and visit that site you suggested....!
Good - doesn't sound like you have much to worry about. As long as the temperature stablizes below 70C during heavy load, you should be fine.

With all those fans, I don't think you can blame it on the P180. My guess is that your cpu is running hotter than it has to and it may be as simply as reinstalling the existing heatsink using a good thermal paste (such as Arctic Silver 5). It might be worth the ten bucks just to see how much difference, if any, that would make.

Post an update if you try something and it works (or doesn't!).

[Adam Mac]

Will do that. I'm glad you managed to understand my Aussie accent as well (LOL)!

[iru69]

Will do that. I'm glad you managed to understand my Aussie accent as well (LOL)!
LOL, I'm not much for geography - I thought "Darwin NT" was made up! Just looked it up - renamed after Charles Darwin, Northern Territory of Australia. Learn something new every day.

[MartyC]

Hi Marty - sorry i'm going to be offtopic here as well.
RE: P180 case (as well)

I've just had a machine built for me with the P180 case, but i'm not at all happy with the fan noise or (more so) the running temperatures.
I've got the Asus P4LD2 mobo 3.6 Ghz
2G ram
Antec 400W PSU

I was just wondering if you knew what temps your machine's running at? (including ambient temp.?) Or if you've any idea what would be ideal, as i can't find anything that states "....the optimum/recommended temperatures for this CPU/mobo are...".
My readings are: 26 deg. room temp (a/c)
56 deg CPU @ idle (fan speed 1188 rpm, setting OPTIMUM)
39 deg bobo (fan 1240 rpm)


Adam


Hi Adam,

Sorry for slow response.

My setup is of course the P180, with a P4 660, 480w Antec Neo-Power psu, A-Bit AW-8 Max mobo.

I too thought the fans were a bit loud, and have tried various settings. In my pc, the case fans set at medium give a virtually silent unit at usual load, but the cpu fan winds up to a a scream at full load.

At idle-mid workload the cpu ranges from 44-55 degrees C, fan at about 1200-1800rpm. At full load the cpu temp tops out at about 66-67 degC with fan doing about 4000 rpm - very noisy!

I am in a non-aircon space, and the ambient room temp is probably about 30degC. Inside the PC, the system temp is currently 36 degC which seems to stay pretty constant. This is going off the A-Bit utility.

I am going to check out quieter cpu fans as it is clearly the Intel fan thats making the noise.

If your cpu is 55 degC at idle, it appears a bit too high. Mine was similar when I finished assembling the PC, talked to a tech guy and he pointed out the heatsink/fan wasnt pushed fully into the mobo (duh!, I was a serious noob at this tho). A couple of more clicks and I think all is about right now.

Pretty cool case tho eh!

Hope that helps with a bit of comaprison, let me know if you any more info required.

CheersM

[GuyR]

Here you go (http://www.wacom-europe.com/int/products/intuos/tablets.asp?lang=en&pdx=35) dualscreeners the perfect complement to a wide workspace ;-)

Guy

[muttlieb]

Regarding cpu temps... I recently built a new system with a P4 670 3.8GHz - the hottest of the hot. My goal was to build a 'quiet' pc, so I went with 'quiet' pc parts wherever possible although my case is nothing special. I choose the Zalman CNPS-7700-CU cpu heatsink/fan. After getting the system together and doing a little testing I found that under full load the cpu was going over the temp threshold of 71C very quickly. Idle temps were in the mid 40's C but under 'normal' load the temps were reaching high 50's C - not good. I did a little more research and decided to give the Zalman CNPS 9500 LED a try. I also picked up some arctic silver 5 thermal grease. The 9500 made a huge difference. My idle temps are now around 42C and under full load, say while rendering, the cpu temp peaks at around 62C. The cpu fan speed stays at a constant ~2370 rpm. I've also got a quiet nexus 120mm front case fan and two 80mm rear case fans. I'd say the system is fairly quiet, but certainly not silent.

[zanzibarbob7]

I called Xi, my computer manufacturer. They said that I would need something like a NVIDIA Quadro FX 600 PCI, in addition to my FX 2000, to run three monitors. The cost is between $677 and $3900. I am guessing about $700. I don't know where the $3900 figure came from but it was offered at that. So you figure at least $800 more for the monitor through Ebay.

Also asked about populating the other two RAM slots, 2 Gigs now, with two more Gigs. Said I would only see about 3 Gigs worth of performance. Maybe it's the FX 53 I am running. All good information to consider.

[iru69]

I called Xi, my computer manufacturer. They said that I would need something like a NVIDIA Quadro FX 600 PCI, in addition to my FX 2000, to run three monitors. The cost is between $677 and $3900. I am guessing about $700. I don't know where the $3900 figure came from but it was offered at that. So you figure at least $800 more for the monitor through Ebay.

Also asked about populating the other two RAM slots, 2 Gigs now, with two more Gigs. Said I would only see about 3 Gigs worth of performance. Maybe it's the FX 53 I am running. All good information to consider.
If you want a Quadro to compliment the FX2000, the $700 FX600 is about it for PCI (the $3900 is for a five pack - they probably just googled it while they were on the phone with you). However, if the FX600 works, there's no reason any other PCI card wouldn't work as well (not that I'm recommending that - I'm a fan of the professional grade cards for professional use). One of the difficulties is that PCI has become such a niche market for graphics cards (since very modern mb has an AGP or PCIe slot), that the choices are a bit limited.

They're basically right about the ram. There's a bit more about ram and revit here:
http://wiki.tripleddesign.com/index.php/RB_Hardware_-_System_RAM

[iru69]

This is interesting... a brand new product (just released today) from matrox that converts one vga port into two - no additional graphics card necessary (assuming your existing graphics card is capable).

http://matrox.com/graphics/offhome/dh2go/press_release.cfm

[Adam Mac]

Hey MartyC and Irusun...!

RE: OFF-TOPIC Antec P180 case & CPU temps etc.

I've just installed a Ninja Scythe CPU heatsink along with the Arctic Ice thermal paste and an EverCOOL 120mm Alu frame case fan.

Almost immediately un-installed new fan as i only now realise I can't control it's speed as it is only a 3-pin connection (not 4) and it runs constantly at 2280 rpm - quite noisy.

Had to reverse fan at top of case to blow air onto new heatsink and have that fan set to "medium" - can't tell rpm.

Idle temp now down to 40 deg (from 56 deg.!)
Load temp peaks at 54-55 deg... back down to 43 deg within 5-10 secs..!!
Mobo temp has risen tho from 39 to 43 degs. I'm not sure if i should be worried about that.

Anyway - machine is now quiet!! (endorsed by my co-workers) and cool.
Now i'm happy. (even if i wasted AU$29 on the fan....)

Thanks for your help.

Adam.

[iru69]

Adam, glad it all worked out for you! Thanks for the update.

[MartyC]

Adam,

Good news. The P180 rocks eh, nice case. Have you got the 24" dell too? If for no other reason it coordinates nicely on the desk!

Will look into that heatsink myself.

CheersM

[muttlieb]

HERE (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_3007wfp?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd) is the new king of widescreens. How nice would one of those be? :shock:

[cadkiller]

Wish I could have got the 30" display, but it only runs on a G5 mac :(
That isn't true Chris, they work on a PC with a dual link DVI video card (Nvidia FX 3400 or FX4400).
I plan on getting two of them with my new system. I'm just waiting for Microsoft Vista to be released.

http://www.pny.com/products/quadro/fx/QuadroPCIeFXChartLabel.asp

[cadkiller]

HERE (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_3007wfp?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd) is the new king of widescreens. How nice would one of those be? :shock:
Wow I didn't know that Dell came out with a 30" LCD monitor and they're about $300.00 cheaper than the one Apple sells. I wonder which one is better.

[muttlieb]

ars technica likes the Dell (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060105-5911.html).

[david.kingham]

My roomate just ordered one, should be here next week, I'll report back :)

[christopher.zoog51272]

That isn't true Chris, they work on a PC with a dual link DVI video card (Nvidia FX 3400 or FX4400).
I plan on getting two of them with my new system. I'm just waiting for Microsoft Vista to be released.

http://www.pny.com/products/quadro/fx/QuadroPCIeFXChartLabel.aspGood to know! Sounds like you are going to have the ultimate display!

[cadkiller]

The ultimate would be 4 - 30" LCD monitors.
One for the front view, top view, left view & ISO view.
The only thing is it would cost $14,000 just for the video cards and monitors.

[david.kingham]

All I can say is WOW totally amazing monitor, very bright, amazing contrast, the black is actually black instead of a dark grey...noticed the huge difference when sitting next to a 21". Only problem we're having is playing dvds, the resolution of the monitor is higher than the dvd so it's chopping off the right side...may just need a better program to play them

[cadkiller]

How much does it stick out from the wall?
Measured from the face of the screen to the wall.
Can you mount it on the wall?
Do they sell special mounts for that?

[david.kingham]

I'd say about 6" from the face to the back of the stand, the monitor itself is only 3" thick. I don't see anywhere you can buy a wall mount but it looks possible, the stand has 4 screws that hold it to the monitor so I'm sure something could easily be adapted.

[Lashers]

With all the design skill here, I expect that we could come up with a bracket! I've been thinking about doing mine as well . . . . best purchese I made after Revit!

[david.kingham]

I could easily do it, even have a machine shop to cut the part, just don't see the need/demand to do it though *shrug*

[Solomon]

One company that makes very nice LCD arms / brackets is Ergotron (http://www.ergotron.com). I've got one of their desk arms for my 17" side monitor, and another coming for the 24" one. I don't believe they list the new 30" Dell yet, but they probably soon will... Plus, it seems they already have wall brackets for the larger plasma TVs...

Cheers,

Solomon

[zanzibarbob7]

Thanks Solomon. These wall mount brackets are just the ticket. I have two 21" flat screens and when I have a place to mount the wall brackets>I'm going to. Creates a lot more desk space.