Backwards Compatibility

[mnisbett]

Okay So whats up with this issue. I am on an AutoCAD ACES plan at our school and every year I run into the same issue with students. Some are running demo version that are older and some have bought student editions that are older than the schools computers. They work on a project at school and then they get home and can't work on the project because you can't open an 8.0 file in 7.0. Why at least can't there be a save as in REVIT. This must be an issue in the industry? Is it Not? Or does everyone always have to have the most current version?

[rhys]

Backward compatibility has always been a difficult or near impossible thing to acheive with a program like Revit which has gone through so many releases in such a short time.
The subscription system is for me at least part of the deal, so that we always have the latest release available to us. As the Revit user base grows to include Structure and M&E then perhaps backward compatibility for say linked models might be a possibility, but that is certainly not a priority on my wishlist. Revit models can always just stay in an earlier release if the added functionality is not needed.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Not sure how your licensing works at the school but the current version is always available as a download and can be loaded on the home machine. Once the trial period ends then the student should be able to use the Portable License Utility to 'check out' the available school license for use on the home copy.
Besides, I thought students were chained to their desks to work all night in the studio and eat cold pizza and drink Coke. Isn't that what architecture school is really all about:smile:

[aaronrumple]

PLU check out from school? No way. I ran a department and there is no way I'd let that utility on a school system. All the licenses would walk out and never come back on day one.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

I knew someone would bring that up. :roll: I do see your point Aaron and realize it would be an issue.
Being one who is inherently honest and trustworthy I tend to be optimistic (to a fault perhaps?) in terms of other people's honor.
Maybe this is one for the wish list. If Revit is to gain a foothold in the education system then it has to be easier for students to have the ability to use a license in this manner. Perhaps a PLU with a time limit, a Student Upgrade program that would allow for inexpensive upgrades to the next release or a student trial version that is good for a school term...
I'll let those in the education channels work on Autodesk for that to come about.

[Danny Polkinhorn]

Also, it does tell them that they won't be able to open it in an earlier version once it's been upgraded. They did read that didn't they? :twisted:

Actually, backwards compatibility is a large task for developers and I would prefer that the resources are spent elsewhere. Because of subscription everyone should have the latest version. Unfortunately, students are being left out of the loop. This issue should be addressed if they want to get a foothold in universities.

[Mr Spot]

Another issue with backwards compatability means that the factory can't focus there time on improving the latest version and instead have to waste time supporting multiple versions of revit... IE: have to supply fixes for revit 7.0 instead of being able to devote there full time to new features in version 9.0...

My 2 cents.

[mnisbett]

I'm just saying c'mon, if DXF is universal for AutoCAD, 3DS is universal for MAX and VIZ, and IGS is standard for Solid Modeling, then Revit needs to throw us a bone. There needs to be a way, other than DWG to talk with the older versions. I know this is not CAD but it is praised at being better, this is a draw back for me. Don't get me wrong though, I still Love using Revit.:lol:

[Steve_Stafford]

With other applications there is a lowest common denominator, ADT>AutoCAD, Building Systems>AutoCAD, Triforma>Microstation...what is the lowest common denominator for Revit? What does a feature in 8.1 become in 8.0? If you make a sloped wall on the face of a mass in 8.1 and saveAS 8.0...does it get deleted? There isn't a lowest common denominator for Revit to go back to...unless you count dwg?

[hand471037]

I'm just saying c'mon, if DXF is universal for AutoCAD, 3DS is universal for MAX and VIZ, and IGS is standard for Solid Modeling, then Revit needs to throw us a bone.

Well, those things aren't as universal as you think, but that's besides the point.

The IFC format(s) from the IAI are hoped to fulfill the role in which you speak, that is being a 'generic' BIM format that would allow BIM data to move from one program to another (or from a current version to an old version). But it's years away currently, if it's going to happen at all.

[mnisbett]

With other applications there is a lowest common denominator, ADT>AutoCAD, Building Systems>AutoCAD, Triforma>Microstation...what is the lowest common denominator for Revit? What does a feature in 8.1 become in 8.0? If you make a sloped wall on the face of a mass in 8.1 and saveAS 8.0...does it get deleted? There isn't a lowest common denominator for Revit to go back to...unless you count dwg?
Okay I understand what you are saying but..., What about object enablers. AutoCAD can read an ADT file , with the enabler, It can't draw the walls but it can read them. I would think that if I had 7.0 and you had 8.1 I still could read your file, with a object enabler-ish plug in, I might not be able to do sloped walls but at least I could see them.

[Steve_Stafford]

...Okay I understand what you are saying but...OE's were pretty much universally despised eh :wink: I'm not saying it is impossible for them to do.

As I understand it, the subscription sales model used for Revit from the beginning was partly to eliminate the "reasons" for not using the latest version. Since we are paying for the latest version there is no reason to not use it and therefore we can all stay on the same version. Obviously things have changed a bit and some loopholes have been created. I for one don't want them spending time figuring out how to save my data back to previous versions.

[mlgatzke]

mnisbett,

What do you use as a text? If you get your textbooks from Delmar/Thompson/Autodesk Press and are "higher education", you can have a one-year licensed cd of the Revit software bundled with the book for only $5 more. This will avoid the problem entirely.

As far as your situation now, either tell them to work at home OR at your lab, but they cannot work in both. People in the commercial sector have no need for backward compatibility as the latest versions are always available online to licensed users. Educational users are assisted via the bundle I mentioned above. This can occur with any Revit book by Delmar/Thompson/Autodesk Press. Might I suggest the Fox/Balding book, "Implementing Revit Building"?

[kgclark]

mnisbett,

What do you use as a text? If you get your textbooks from Delmar/Thompson/Autodesk Press and are "higher education", you can have a one-year licensed cd of the Revit software bundled with the book for only $5 more. This will avoid the problem entirely.

As far as your situation now, either tell them to work at home OR at your lab, but they cannot work in both. People in the commercial sector have no need for backward compatibility as the latest versions are always available online to licensed users. Educational users are assisted via the bundle I mentioned above. This can occur with any Revit book by Delmar/Thompson/Autodesk Press. Might I suggest the Fox/Balding book, "Implementing Revit Building"?

How do you get the 1 year higher ed license for $5? I'm a grad student and have been buying the 1yr license from places like JourneyEd (http://www.journeyed.com/itemDetail.asp?T1=52271123N+F) for $160/year.

I can say that the educational licenses are a royal PITA by not being backward compatible. I bought a 1 year license for v7.0 about 6-7 months ago....but my school's labs use v8.0. So....I cannot use the lab computers on any of my files, even to simply print on the lab plotter. I could waste 5-6 months of my $160 license and buy a new license....but the current version is 8.1, which STILL wouldn't allow me to work with my school's lab computers.

It seems to me that if the educational licenses are 1 year, they should allow you unlimited version upgrades during that timeframe. As it is now, they don't even allow for an incremental upgrade (ie v 8.0 to 8.1), which just seems plain dumb.

[iru69]

It seems to me that if the educational licenses are 1 year, they should allow you unlimited version upgrades during that timeframe. As it is now, they don't even allow for an incremental upgrade (ie v 8.0 to 8.1), which just seems plain dumb.
Agree. It makes a lot more sense for Autodesk to change their licensing policy than the software.

I hear this kind of stuff, and I just can't figure out what Autodesk could be thinking - what better way to turn off the future clients for their software. This is just one more reason people end up hating Autodesk and refuse to buy their software.. And Autodesk never seems to get it! They do all these little things over and over again... okay, I'm getting too worked up about this... it just drives me nuts to see good products managed by a bunch of...

[BillyGrey]

mnisbett, kgclark, irusun, I couldn't agree more.

Autodesk needs to pull it's head out of the black box on this issue and make student licensing wide open.

Dang adesk, do it fo the shorties.

[rod.74246]

I agree, AutoDesk really has to get Revit into the universities. Hell when i went through Graphisoft was letting the Architectural department run student licenses on their computers FOR FREE!!.

I can tell you it churned out a while bunch of ArchiCAD stalwarts. The only difference i could see in the student version in those days was that everytime you printed something it had a "student version" watermark you couldn;t get rid of. I don't see why AutoDesk couldn't do the same.

I mean really is there anyone who runs a business using pirate versions or student versions of any software? Our firm is 100% compliant with all our software and we take it very seriously....and that is where Autodesks market is, business users. It seems to make complete sense to get new users to CAD at uni and tafe level stuck on their software so they will use it and have loyalty when they get in the real world. I just dont get the point of all the restrictions on students. Let em use it for free. As a marketing tool it would be better for them in the long run. Particularly seeing as how anyone can pick up a working copy of any software from a market in south east asia for 2 dollars. Let em learn it for nothing and get em hooked.