Action Against 45 Deg Rule

[Roger Evans]

It is time to stand up & get militant Bruvvers & Sisters

Don't know about the rest of the UK but here in Wales we are plagued by a 45Deg planning rule
Mythical line is drawn at 45 deg on plan from Centre of nearest window on adjacent property & woe betide anyone encroaching it with an extension on a property.

The reason for this is supposed to preserve light to adjacent property but the Planners apply this rule equally whether on South or North Side. ~ which is really stupid in my book. I've just had a call from a planner who wants me to shunt a north side extension over because I encroach by 700 mm

This is a big PIA

Anyone with any suggestions for best buys for a bazooka please contact me

[ejburrell67787]

I imagine that it relates to the amount of visible sky from the window, ie amount of natural light entering the window so is irrelevant whether it faces North or South.

...unless they were claiming shading from direct sunlight?

[Lashers]

. . .Don't know about the rest of the UK but here in Wales we are plagued by a 45Deg planning rule
Mythical line is drawn at 45 deg on plan from Centre of nearest window on adjacent property & woe betide anyone encroaching it with an extension on a property. . . . .
You think thats bad! 3 Rivers (my LA) projects the back face of the house to the adjacent boundary - and then draws the 45Deg. line!! Great for Seni-detached!! Apparently there are 5 or 6 LAs that do this - so 45Deg. from a window is a luxury for me! ha . .?

[Roger Evans]

Years ago (before continental drift) I came across similar 45 deg rule (right of light?) taken from centre of window 45 deg plan but also then taken at 45 deg vertically from window cill level ~ that made more sense but this rule is just stupidly applied and the 45 deg horiz is also infinite.

Apparently Kevin McCloud wrote something on planning last week in the Sunday Times I'll have to get copy & read it

Why is it that authorities have such differing rules? Who Makes them? Who challenges them when they are made? What are we going to do about it?

We have choices Either we sit back and get screwed or We stand & fight & get screwed
My choice is the latter

Reminds me of a Shadwell joke

My uncle Eric had a little Terrier. Frisky & Playful little thing it was. He used to tame him with a big stick.

He's so tame now he hardly moves.

[cosmickingpin]

Where would the comedy of Monty Python have come from without the silly @ss rules upon which British society was founded and thrives today. We all owe a debt of gratitude for silly @ss British rules and regulations, they set a standard for the rest of the world, without which comedy as we know it would not exist. They are the backbone of the empire and give us vision of tomorrow. What ever would have become of Benny Hill or Dame Edna without the backdrop of uptight british customs? You scoff my friend but England is God's running Gag for the world to enjoy, and its always funny and good tempered? Heck even the French needed Peter Sellers to make the pink panther movies.



It is time to stand up & get militant Bruvvers & Sisters

Don't know about the rest of the UK but here in Wales we are plagued by a 45Deg planning rule
Mythical line is drawn at 45 deg on plan from Centre of nearest window on adjacent property & woe betide anyone encroaching it with an extension on a property.

The reason for this is supposed to preserve light to adjacent property but the Planners apply this rule equally whether on South or North Side. ~ which is really stupid in my book. I've just had a call from a planner who wants me to shunt a north side extension over because I encroach by 700 mm

This is a big PIA

Anyone with any suggestions for best buys for a bazooka please contact me

[Roger Evans]

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14049-1861673,00.html

Kevin McCloud's comments on Planning

[PeterJ]

The reason that the 45 degree rule can be implemented with such variety is that each authority is responsible for their own area and the urban grain of, say, Westminster is going to be fundamentally different to that of Cowbridge, for example. And no doubt you have an egg there to suck upon, Roger.

I think that a large part of the problem is one of resourcing. Under current government rules planning departments are tested against their ability to achieve the 8 week and 13 week targets for applications. In Hillingdon, an area where I have done lots of work, the weight of applications makes this difficult for the local authority. In order to over come this they tend to give only limited pre-application advice and then, certainly on householder schemes, do not indulge in any negotiation with the applicant/agent. By avoiding discussion it is usually possible, even allowing for 3 weeks of consultation during which time the officer responsible will not look at the scheme, to make a decision in eight weeks. In principle this sounds positive and certainly scores well against the criteria by which they are granted additional central government funding. In practice, a scheme where the planning officer believes a scheme should be reduced from 4 metres deep to 3.5 metres deep will have this information communicated to the applicant/agent in the form of a refusal notice stating that to comply with policy the extension should not esceed 3.5 metres. Then we go round again......a fresh application showing the extension at 3.5 metres deep.

To resource this process the departments in London at least are staffed largely by contract players, often from overseas, who have little experience and so tend to deal with the planning guidance as an absolute rule not something which can be applied with sensible discretion. The better ones tend to get frustrated with this system and move onto Borough's that appreciate them and are lest controlled by the 8 week deadline where a negotiated decision can often be reached in 10 or 11 weeks. (South Bucks, I'm calling your name).

I know one agent who works a lot on a no-win no-fee basis and makes alot of money doing this. How does he do it? He picks his work and does it in a small number of Boroughs that are enabling him to have a proper relationship with skilled planning staff.

Anyway, Roger. To return to the 45 degree rule, challenge it. Ask the planner what it is actually seeking to protect: visible sky, sunlight, plot relationships and then see if there is a chink in their argument. Also check whether it is actually established in their UDP or not, because a number of boroughs have been rapped over the knuckles for applying the 45 degree line with no valid reason and have been encouraged to remove it from their UDP. If that is the case then you can appeal and offer your alternate grounds, threaten to appeal with expenses on the grounds that you canot expect to comply with rules that are not in their UDP and see if they crumble.

Anyway, having unburdened my soul I am off to France for a week.

[Lashers]

Maybe we should be looking for / forming a suitable body to seek better "local" planning rules. Not the formula ones that are copied around the country! We could call it the RIBA! ERK! thats taken isn't it? If only they would stop picking their navels . . . .

Roger, that Kevin lad can sure get his point accross . . . pity no one listens to him. I can't believe the RTPI attacked him on his viewpoint! What should we call ourselves then . . .The Underground Movement for Better Overground Construction . . . I hear long titles are coming back in . .ha!

[Roger Evans]

ARTS

Active Revit Tirade Society

Of course the we would all have fellowships prefix F

Of course we would have Hierarchies ie Grand and Old

Non active members would be Silent but still have a Fellowship prefix F

etc etc to be continued

[Lashers]

ARTS

Active Revit Tirade Society

Of course the we would all have fellowships prefix F

Of course we would have Hierarchies ie Grand and Old

Non active members would be Silent but still have a Fellowship prefix F

etc etc to be continued
LOL . . . I'm in!

[blads]

LOL . . . I'm in!
Count me in as well... we have a similar rule here in Sth Aust with regards to new vs existing buildings. I wouldn't mind as much if it were for sunlight penetration control, but its mainly for visual & acoustic privacy...