Vectorworks 12 Videos

[barathd]

Here is a link to some pretty good videos on the new vectorworks release
http://www.nemetschek.net/upgrade/demos.php

Enjoy

[Scott D Davis]

I know I'm biased...but I just watched the video on the "new, automatic section" feature which was far from automatic and took a dozens steps to define the layers and "layer-sheet" and viewport. Then any change to the section or geometry required the user to hit the "update" button.

I've never used Vectorworks, but that video would not make me run out and buy it.

[Andrew Dobson]

I dont think that Vectorworks is even marketed as being in any way competitive to Revit, it is more of an AutoCAD LT competitor as far as I am concerned.

We are converting a practice we have merged with from Vectorworks to AutoCAD LT and they aren't very happy about it as Vectorworks is actually a very friendly and intuitive program to use for basic drawing.

However, the videos that are produced showcase the product features really well, why cant Autodesk do something like this for Revit? It would take one employee a couple of days Max?

[blads]

I think Vectorworks is slanted towards ADT users... I know I looked at it briefly when I used ADT3.3 back in the dark ages

[Joef]

I would wager there are more people in Victoria using Vectorworks for architectural drafting than are using AutoCAD. The local design school teaches it as part of their curriculum. It's main advantage in the marketplace is that it is cheaper than AutoCAD and runs on a Mac. Cheaper is nothing to sneeze at. If you can get the job done with Vectorworks and you can tap into a source of trained people it makes a lot of sense from a business point of view. Nobody in Victoria has even heard of Revit. That's mainly because there isn't a Revit dealer on the entire island. If you want to see a live demo it is a whole day of ferry trips to and from Vancouver. It is quite a speed bump on the road to innovation.
I also saw the Vectorworks video on "live sections" and thought that having to press the update button should preclude describing the section as "live".

Joe

[hand471037]

It's main advantage in the marketplace is that it is cheaper than AutoCAD and runs on a Mac.

I sat and played with whatever the latest version was at the last Macworld. It's better than AutoCAD/ADT, but no Revit. However, it's a third the price of Revit (or less). Lots of small one-person shops use it around here.

But in regards to 'competition', the only real one out there is ArchiCAD, IMHO, and it's falling behind Revit now it seems to me...

[Wes Macaulay]

I would wager there are more people in Victoria using Vectorworks for architectural drafting than are using AutoCAD. The local design school teaches it as part of their curriculum. It's main advantage in the marketplace is that it is cheaper than AutoCAD and runs on a Mac. Cheaper is nothing to sneeze at. If you can get the job done with Vectorworks and you can tap into a source of trained people it makes a lot of sense from a business point of view. Nobody in Victoria has even heard of Revit. That's mainly because there isn't a Revit dealer on the entire island. If you want to see a live demo it is a whole day of ferry trips to and from Vancouver. It is quite a speed bump on the road to innovation.
I also saw the Vectorworks video on "live sections" and thought that having to press the update button should preclude describing the section as "live".

JoeYou're right on all points, Joe... having a stream of trained users is more important than the software itself. Still, an office full of VW users can't hold a candle to an office full of Revit users. Though at this time, an office full of Revit users is a somewhat theoretical situation :mrgreen: even though I am seeing this change all the time.

You still have to be happy for VW users who have been asking for this for, what, eight years! Problem is, their collaboration methods are bad (xrefs get loaded into the host file, unlike in Acad/ADT) and performance is not great -- elevations take forever to generate.

[barathd]

I am not suggesting Vectorworks is competition for Revit. Interesting to see what others than Autodesk are doing with AEC software. Lot of similarity to Revit in some areas - parametrics -sure not as versatile - roofs look very superficial. Nevertheless interesting enough to warrant a glance.

[sjsl]

Having been a beta tester for a couple of years w/VW, I can honestly say they agree, Revit is their competition. Almost all improvements were based on what Revit can do and what VW needs to do to compete. They are definitely scared of Revit.

I actually did their new residential tutorial and then did it in Revit. No contest. I was so much quicker w/R it was amazing. That being said I do love all of the built-in graphic features for presentation. Revit should incoproate these into the next release.

[cadkiller]

But in regards to 'competition', the only real one out there is ArchiCAD, IMHO, and it's falling behind Revit now it seems to me...
What about Bentley Microstation? I read many articles about Microstation being used as a BIM application for design / build projects with great success.

[hand471037]

What about Bentley Microstation? I read many articles about Microstation being used as a BIM application for design / build projects with great success.

Whoa, really? I have yet to talk to anyone really using Triformia for Architecture. Maybe it's just my area, but the only stories I've heard about it largely come from Bently, not from real-world users. I have helped some folks go from Microstation to Revit, but as far as I knew they weren't using Triformia for Architecture at all, just plain Microstation.

From my limited understanding, Bently's Architectural product is a lot like ADT, only worse. ;-)

[Wes Macaulay]

Triforma? <stifled laughter> I wish... check out the posts under http://discussion.bentley.com and check out the Triforma areas. Get out the propeller hats, kids

[iru69]

Whoa, really? I have yet to talk to anyone really using Triformia for Architecture.
A friend of mine uses Triforma - and yes, he talks about it as BIM - but we all know that term has become as generic as CAD. As soon as he mentions "regenerating sections", I've heard enough. My understanding is that it's closer to ADT than Revit. They looked into Revit, but it sounds like the demo they were given made Revit look "half baked" (which was exactly our experience, so no surprise there). Switching dozens of users over is a big challenge as well - the inertia of sticking with what you've got often wins in the end.

[Wes Macaulay]

Would that be NBBJ? Those folks have scads of seats of Triforma... and yes, it's just like ADT, thought it can model more complex forms than either ADT or Revit, esp with Generative Components bolted on.

[snurresprett9]

The roof-tool in VW looks interesting. Soffit settings, facia settings etc.

[hand471037]

esp with Generative Components bolted on.

Yeah, the only thing I've seen that I liked from Triforma is some of the nifty work that Norman Foster has done using these. However, there's some knowlege and deep pockets there to make it work, and no idea really given how much of either it took to get to where they go using it.

I think it's a real shame that lots of folks look at what someone does with a tool and assumes it's the tool that's 'allowing' them to do that thing, and subsequently ignores how much expertise and/or money it might have taken to get there. It's kinda like seeing people bag on Revit's rendering capabilities over and over while they themselves haven't ever used a 'real' rendering package, like 3DS + Mental Ray or something, so they have no idea of what it takes (in money and know-how) to get those nice shiny images... they just see the image, hear that it was done with 'x', and now think that 'x' is the only way to go...

[A3D]

But in regards to 'competition', the only real one out there is ArchiCAD, IMHO, and it's falling behind Revit now it seems to me...

Nemetschek Allplan? Not sure if equal to Vectorworks, but...
Been to their headquarters in Barcelona and they showed me what it can do. Although not as BIM as Revit, it has some way superior modules over Revit.
I'm daydreaming when we'll get a topography module as theirs, image support, etc.

You still have to regenerate the section :)
I think this is the real threat for Revit in Europe.
The market share in this city is around 80% AutoCAD and a 10% between ArchiCAD and Allplan. Sadly Revit is 0,000..1% (me :)

[Scott D Davis]

Tatjana,

Wanna go to Barcelona? :grin:

[janunson]

What about Bentley Microstation? I read many articles about Microstation being used as a BIM application for design / build projects with great success.
geeze - the mention of that name will probably keep me up tonight. I've used triforma... i could be comparable to ADT if you have a few years to spend writing code and configuring files to get it set up. I had a subscription to Triforma up till version J or K or something like that. (Not for any reason other than client requirements!) The thing (IMHO) about all the Bentley products is that they're significantly powerful, and don't shy away from analysis tools integrating w/ documentation tools (something i wish Revit would be less shy about) but they require such incredible amounts of effort and specialized knowledge to configure and use that you'd have to hire a computer scientist to keep an office functional with them.

all the examples i've seen of it being used effectively are done by Bentley employees, including the analsys examples i referred to above. I was never able to get it to sing so.

[Lashers]

. . . . Still, an office full of VW users can't hold a candle to an office full of Revit users. Though at this time, an office full of Revit users is a somewhat theoretical situation :mrgreen: even though I am seeing this change all the time.. . . .
I beg to differ Wes! My whole office use Revit . . .


heh, soon as I get some employees I will get more copies!

[hand471037]

Nemetschek Allplan?

Woops. Just talking about the Western United States. I've heard that Allplan beats Revit in certain ways, but that it's really hard to use. But that's all I heard, never had the chance to use it, and no one I know of out here does. The Catia for Architects sounds interesting, but for the five-figures it costs it better be ten times better than Revit, AND make me coffee to boot. :D

Another really cool looking product that looks like it could give Revit a run for it's money (but ONLY for single family residences) is VertexBD: http://www.argos.com/products/about_vertex.htm

No idea how much it costs tho.

But, at least until something better comes along, Revit's got the best price-to-performance for me. It's a little pricy for someone like me, a single-person shop doing contract and consulting work for others, but AutoCAD is almost as much and ArchiCAD more (And neither of them let me do as much work with the same level of quality) so...

[Roger Evans]

This guy maintains an interesting website (very professional no axe to grind)

Allplan user & one man band I think

www.lakedistrict-architect.co.uk/CADnotes1.htm

[JamesVan]

However, the videos that are produced showcase the product features really well, why cant Autodesk do something like this for Revit? It would take one employee a couple of days Max?
I still have the demo videos that used to be on the installation CD's from around Revit 3 or so. I could post them on FTP or something if you'd like to see. Autodesk had an interactive overview of the interface on the Revit product page that was pretty decent, but it's been trimmed down I think. Also check out www.dgcad.com (http://www.dgcad.com) - free tutorials!

I do agree that Autodesk could produce a few new slick animations to exhibit Revit's 'power through simplicity.'

[cadkiller]

I still have the demo videos that used to be on the installation CD's from around Revit 3 or so. I could post them on FTP or something if you'd like to see.
I would be interested in seeing them plus any of the older PDF manuals would be great.

Thanks