Stairs - Cantilevered

[Jit]

Hi All

I am trying to do a stair to a mezzanine level. The treads cantilever off a concrete wall and the width of stair is say 1200-1500 (depending on my engineer) How can I do this in revit ?
Also the treads on the cantilevered side will have a balustrade which will run from floor , thru the tread and up to the ceiling

Any thoughts ?

Thanks in advancel

[Scott D Davis]

probably an in-place family would be best. Its a custom piece, and probably should be modeled that way.

[jbalding48677]

The balastrades may take some thought, but the basic stair can be done.

[Phil Read]

Jit -

There are some elegant solutions for these unique conditions. I'd suggest modeling the structural underside of the tread as a Baluster Post. Since a baluster can be told to associate once per tread - you'll get one support per Revit tread. You might also go ahead and create the floor to ceiling element (with upper and lower parameters). You won't be able to select the baluster in a view since it's really part of the stair railing. But you can select from the Family Browser - and then tweak the properties. :)

I've attached some images which should illustrate. Imagine the structural tubing has been replaced by the wall as you suggest.

Expect to take some time - but the results can be very satisfying.

Regards -

Phil

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1779

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1780

[studioCJF]

I would like to nominate Phil Read as the "Official Unofficial Stair Guru"! The two stairs he listed and this one from a previous post demonstrate that he has mastered the "Art Of The Stair"

Clark

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=631[img]

[JamesVan]

I wouldn't belittle Phil's genius by simply assigning him the "Stair Guru" stigma. He's got far more talent that has yet to be exposed.

Keep your eyes open everyone.

[PeterJ]

Phil is obviously paid to just sit around and play.

Nice work if you can get it.

[Jit]

Hey Phil thanks alot, helped me heaps

[Scott D Davis]

These stairs should be shown to any person who discounts Revit's modeling capabilities. Phil, you are "The Stair Master"!

[kafka]

simply wonder....and remember (I was being addressed :)) ...I only noticed Revit's impossibility to model just organic shape....for the rest can do everything of course! :PPP

Phil way don't you write a tutorial?

[hand471037]

can't model organic shapes? what's this then! ;)

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1811

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1812

Mod Edit: Images added to post.

[Scott D Davis]

Phil,

Are these stairs you've created still parametric? If you had one in your model and increased the floor to floor distance, would the stair update?

[christo4robin]

Phil (or anyone who knows),

Could you provide some "how to" on creating the continuity of stringer into column, stringer into railing, etc.

Thanks!

[kafka]

can't model organic shapes? what's this then! ;)

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1811

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1812

Mod Edit: Images added to post.


are all that objects (holes too) still maintaing intelligent features of Revit?

If I would create a roof above the two organic walls..can I succeed with Revit automation..or I should create from zero modelling it...?

Still I have area tags with that objects?

These are my puzzles!

[christo4robin]

I'm posting because I (perhaps I'm slower than some) took awhile to figure out how to create such a sexy stair as Phil's. So, point by point...

1. The stair tread can be either the tread native to a stair object or modeled as a baluster. I recommend using the native stair object tread if possible because it saves the step of adjusting stair object visibility for different views.

2. In order to create a stair stringer that has a profile (wide flange, channel, etc.) a railing object has to be used. Simply set all stringers to None. Add the railing at the appropriate point of the stair (side, middle, etc.) and use a negative vertical offset to get it below the stair.

3. To create the tread support (above the stringer and below the tread) model the geometry as a Baluster. If you use the baluster template, then you can have some of the geometry adjust its slope to match the slope of the stair (top cut angle and bottom cut angle are parameters that you can tie to reference planes and thus geometry). If you use the baluster post template, you do not have the cut angle parameters. That is the only difference I have discerned.

4. Create a railing (it could be the same railing object that creates the stringer) that uses the Baluster per tread option. Set the baluster family to the one you created in step 3. Set it to 1 baluster per tread and presto! you've got tread supports. You may need to go back to your baluster family and adjust the geometry location relative to the origin point in the template file to get things just right.

5. Create additional railings as necessary to get handrails.

I also learned that railings seem to be able to only use single loop profiles (completely solid shapes). When I made tube steel profile that had the hole in the middle, i.e., donut configuration, it didn't show up as an option in the railing dialogue. The same profile without the donut hole worked fine.

I hope that helps others who are a bit mystified like I was.

Cheers!

[hand471037]

kafka, Yes, yes, and yes. You can even drop windows/doors into them, and Revit will do it's best to make them work correctly. :)

As long as your in-place blends (that's what those walls are) are within the Wall catagory Revit will make them behave like walls to the best of it's ability, allowing for attachement to roofs/levels/ref planes above, placement of doors & Windows, and tags & areas. :)

[kafka]

kafka, Yes, yes, and yes. You can even drop windows/doors into them, and Revit will do it's best to make them work correctly. :)

As long as your in-place blends (that's what those walls are) are within the Wall catagory Revit will make them behave like walls to the best of it's ability, allowing for attachement to roofs/levels/ref planes above, placement of doors & Windows, and tags & areas. :)


what say..great Job...and please when I make a critic don't be too harsh with me:)) I only love Revit and I wish with some observation it will goes better :)

So why..who can controls very well the Revit modelling tools don't write a useful tutorial concering organic/complex geometry Union/blends?

for example...how to use well the reference planes...some variuos tips ad so on...

ByeZ

GC

[Dean Camlin]

Kafka, I agree: We need a tutorial on advanced stair creation (& free-form modeling within Revit) to detail some of the techniques shown here by Phil Read, Christopher Herr & Jeffrey McGrew.

[studioCJF]

Ditto! Tutorials Please! Please! Please!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank You!

Clark

[jbalding48677]

Here are some real life cantelevered stairs (311 to be exact) that I happened to have climbed today and thought about all of you discussing them.

There is a photo looking up attached.

[christo4robin]

They look 2003 IBC compliant to me! Landing every 12 feet I am assuming.

[jbalding48677]

There was a landing.... Every.... 106 feet, yep one at the top and one at the bottom.

[Phil Read]

Good morning all :)

I'll eventually put a tutorial together - but in the meantime here's a stair I created last night with the "baluster tread". It's got enough parameters to allow it to be used on a straight run or curved stair (and modify the connection angle depending on the resolved slope of the stair).

If you save out the baluster family from the project you'll get a good idea of how it was created.

I'd also recommend the following book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3823855727/

"Staircases/Treppen/Escaliers/Escaleras"

All the best!

-Phil

[hand471037]

When I've got some time, I'll write up something more easy-to-follow.

But here's a short outline of how I made these walls:

1. On the modeling tab, click 'create', and choose the 'wall' catagory.
2. Click 'solid' and choose a blend.
3. Using the spline line tool, draw a nice swoopy line.
4. Select that line, and copy it over the thickness you want your wall to be.
5. Use the grips to modify that new line to give the wall the consistant thickness you may want.
6. Connect the endpoints of the two spines using staight lines to make a closed loop.
7. Select all four lines, and hit 'Crtl-C'. Then click 'Edit Top' on the Design bar.
8. Hit 'Ctrl-V'. Place the closed loop offset of the bottom loop, this will be the amount your wall will lean.
9. Select all four lines within the closed loop, and rotate them. This will be how much your wall 'shears'.
10. Set your wall height & material, and click 'finish sketch'.
11. Click 'finish family'.

Now you've got your wall! Go to an elevation view and start dropping doors/windows into it, draw a roof or Ref. Plane and attach it to it (to get a wall with a sloped top)... ;)

Have fun.

[Scott D Davis]

Phil!

I'm in the last stair RVT file you posted, trying to add ballusters to you stairs, because we having figured out how to get the floating railings built, or through plan check yet. :shock:

I can get ballusters on the one railing side without the balluster-as-tread-support family, but the other side I can only get top and bottom ballusters.

Can you offer any advice?

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1845

[Phil Read]

Hiya Scott!

Not all balusters need to have railings. So don't associate the baluster support to either side railing. Instead - create another railing running up the middle of the host stair (again - the baluster support is set to one per tread). And remember to delete any railing profile associated to the middle railing type.

Now the railings to each side can host the regular baluster.

Image and tweaked file attached.

Regards -

Phil

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1850

[Clyne Curtis]

Just my .02 worth, but I think this topic would make for a great class presentation at AU this year...how 'bout it Phil?

Clyne

[jbalding48677]

Just my .02 worth, but I think this topic would make for a great class presentation at AU this year...how 'bout it Phil?

Clyne

You got my vote!!! I will notify Joseph ;-)

[Scott D Davis]

AU? Heck JB, lets bring Phil out to the Aprril 1st Revit users meeting at your place! AU is too far away!

[jbalding48677]

Phil -

You are hereby formally invited to our SoCal Revit Users Group Meeting, WATG Newport, 1 April 2004, 6:30 pm.

If that doesn't do it, I don't know what will.

[Scott D Davis]

You forgot to mention the free pizza and sodas....shoot, now he has to come!

[Scott D Davis]

Phil,

I've been messing with the last stair RVT you shared...I think I've got it! This is a really cool way to create complex stairs!

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1856

[Phil Read]

Per Client Comments.

;)

Phil

PS - Will be in Cleveland next week...would expect to be available after hours for beer/pizza! If any of you guys are in the neighborhood let me know.

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1857

[beegee]

Cover artwork for R7.0 , Phil ?

[Scott D Davis]

demanding client you must have! quite the budget for one stairway, can't wait to see the whole building! 8)

Very nice model, Phil!

[Richard McCarthy]

Hi Phil!

Any chance you could post that sexy glass stair as RVT file for us lowly Revit newbies to look at and learn?? PLEASE ? :)









Per Client Comments.

;)

Phil

PS - Will be in Cleveland next week...would expect to be available after hours for beer/pizza! If any of you guys are in the neighborhood let me know.

[christo4robin]

How to question...

When using a baluster family for a tread in a spiral stair, I'm guessing that you must create the radii, included angles per tread, etc. in the baluster family and then match those values when you create the stair object in the model.

In other words, there is no parametric response of the tread (in the baluster family) to the stair's dimensional properties.

Is that accurate?

[Phil Read]

In other words, there is no parametric response of the tread (in the baluster family) to the stair's dimensional properties.

Of course there is: this is Revit. ;) Some of the properties are driven by the stair; others are managed based on a specified particulars.

-Phil

[cadkiller]

Hello Phil;

Very nice stair job indeed.
How long have you been using Revit?
How long did that stair take for you to model?
Was that an actual job you did or was that just for fun?
I'm sure the structural engineer loved you for that one, if it truely was an actual job.
WOW 1" thick glass treads supported by rods!
That thing must have some bounce to it!
Can you control the ends of the stringers?
Say you wanted to extend the top stringer and connect it to a floor beam and put a base plate on the bottom to bolt it to the floor.
Is that possible and easy to do with revit?

I downloaded your file and created a 3D DWF file of it.
Does Revit have a FREE 3D viewer that clients can use to view the models?

From;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC
http://precisiondraftingllc.com (http://precisiondraftingllc.com/)

[david.kingham]

Incredible stairs, I must learn this :) I can't believe this guy is going to be in my office for two weeks hehe...anyone jealous?

[Scott D Davis]

cadkiller:

Phil' s an Autodesk Revit Factory worker, and he's a Revit expert. But don't let that discourage you! These stairs reallly aren't that difficult! I even took a stab at creating some in this thread, inspired by Phil. They are a combination of custom railing balluster panels, and custom ballusters for the risers, treads, stringers, etc. Once you get the pieces built, they can be applied to stairs over and over agian, like a kit of parts. Straight stairs, curved stairs, it doesn't matter! In fact, we can post Revit stairs here, and you can apply the properties to your own stairs. Here is some answers to your questions:

Can you control the ends of the stringers?
Yes, Revit allows for custom "railing" tops and bottoms, so you could easily create a "railing" end which would be applied to the stringer.

Say you wanted to extend the top stringer and connect it to a floor beam and put a base plate on the bottom to bolt it to the floor.
Is that possible and easy to do with revit?
Yes, with a custom railing end condition.

I downloaded your file and created a 3D DWF file of it.
Does Revit have a FREE 3D viewer that clients can use to view the models?

Currently, the demo version of Revit is the viewer. A client could download/install Revit without the content to use as a viewer. Since it would be in demo mode, they couldn't save the changes they might make. We expect that 3D DWF creation is in the near future for Revit.