Large buildings with multiple wings

[dbaldacchino]

We typically work on large buildings, say 100,000 to 200,000 SF in footprint, with multiple wings. This is obviously impossible to fit on a sheet at 1/8" scale, so we split the building in "plan areas"....Area "A", Area "B", etc.

I'm trying to figure out how to do this in Revit and the only way I seem to figure out is by using Plan Regions. I basically create polygons over those areas I don't want to see (EX: If I want to see Area "A", I put polygons around the other areas) and then set the properties of the Plan Region to show me anything at Level 1 at elevation 0 (or say -9'-0" if your model also contains footings etc.).

It seems to work and I would like to hear from you if this is a good/proper way of doing it or if I'm missing the "correct" way (that I couldn't figure out). Or, if I'm lucky enough, I might have just posted a great tip for someone! Any comments?

Thanks all.

[beegee]

One method.

Use a full plan as your " working plan" and then duplicate it and adjust the crop regions on the duplicated views to show the areas < A, B, C etc, and place those view on your sheets.

[kpaxton]

I'm trying to figure out how to do this in Revit and the only way I seem to figure out is by using Plan Regions. I basically create polygons over those areas I don't want to see (EX: If I want to see Area "A", I put polygons around the other areas) and then set the properties of the Plan Region to show me anything at Level 1 at elevation 0 (or say -9'-0" if your model also contains footings etc.).
OMIGODNONONONONOOoooooooooo.:cry:

The best way to handle this, and the way Revit is made to do this, is to create ONE master plan with all of your building information. Then you will end up Duplicating this view, then using Crop Region to "remove" or obscure the unwanted areas. These smaller views (of your wings) can then be placed at a larger scale on their sheets and annotated. Besides, the Plan Regions may not obscure everything you want it to.

There is some question with some people about whether or not to annotate the main plan view to death, then just use Duplicate with Detailing, then crop.... but that's a personal taste.

I hope this helps, as it's not an in-depth How-To to do this.

Good luck,
Kyle

[tonyisenhoff]

Are the wings "Square with the world" or at angles? That can make a difference in your plan of attack.

[neb1998]

OMIGODNONONONONOOoooooooooo.:cry:

The best way to handle this, and the way Revit is made to do this, is to create ONE master plan with all of your building information. Then you will end up Duplicating this view, then using Crop Region to "remove" or obscure the unwanted areas. These smaller views (of your wings) can then be placed at a larger scale on their sheets and annotated. Besides, the Plan Regions may not obscure everything you want it to.

There is some question with some people about whether or not to annotate the main plan view to death, then just use Duplicate with Detailing, then crop.... but that's a personal taste.

I hope this helps, as it's not an in-depth How-To to do this.

Good luck,
KyleOne other quick note, I usually do this as well....you can add a Key plan of the master plan (duplicated view without all the arch info) that is also on the same sheet to show the orientiation of the view as well as any major critical dimensions. Sometimes in revit its hard to show outside wall dimensions if you split the view in 1/2, but with a small key plan at maybe 1"=20' in the corner with a few critical dimensions you can easily simplify the contractors work in the field - same goes for any structural plans.

[dbaldacchino]

Thanks guys for the quick responses.

I'm aware of crop regions, but they don't work for me. Our main building types are schools, mostly spread out over large areas.

These buildings tend to be irregular, made out of several wings (seldom parallel to each other) and we like to split them with a similar concept to match lines, but we show just enough on all sides so you can relate to other areas. We would, say, have Level 1 and Level 2 etc. as full views with no cropping or plan regions, and then a series of plan areas, quite irregular (at first glance they might look irrationally split but they have some sense to them, and the cropped areas are extremely irregular and composed of curves and straight lines). Thus, I need a tool that can crop irregular areas and the only one that has provided the required functionality (even though it doesn't seem to be meant for that use) is the Plan Region tool, set to look literally under the building and thus displaying nothing. I basically use it to "mask" what I don't want to see.

If you need to see the kind of plan I'm talking about, I'll post an image of a key-plan.

[neb1998]

Thanks guys for the quick responses.

I'm aware of crop regions, but they don't work for me. Our main building types are schools, mostly spread out over large areas.

These buildings tend to be irregular, made out of several wings (seldom parallel to each other) and we like to split them with a similar concept to match lines, but we show just enough on all sides so you can relate to other areas. We would, say, have Level 1 and Level 2 etc. as full views with no cropping or plan regions, and then a series of plan areas, quite irregular (at first glance they might look irrationally split but they have some sense to them, and the cropped areas are extremely irregular and composed of curves and straight lines). Thus, I need a tool that can crop irregular areas and the only one that has provided the required functionality (even though it doesn't seem to be meant for that use) is the Plan Region tool, set to look literally under the building and thus displaying nothing. I basically use it to "mask" what I don't want to see.

If you need to see the kind of plan I'm talking about, I'll post an image of a key-plan.You could always use a crop region for a vague seperation and then use filled regions to cover up irregular shapes of the plan that you do not want to show per each plan........i would think this is a bad workaround but it may work for you.

[Steve_Stafford]

While certainly not an "obvious" solution to the lack of irregular crop region boundaries if it works for you and your needs then it "works" right? Off the top I don't see what lurks waiting to nip at you by using them this way but just keep in mind that they are intended to display host and hosted objects like walls, roofs, windows and doors, according to a separate cut plane.

Later, you may find that something will not display as intended when you use this approach and will be faced with abandoning it at that point. You may not... Let us know how it works out. I do have a vague recollection of an issue where the view depth setting of a plan region undesireably affected the whole view. As long as you aren't changing this you may not bump into it and it may have been fixed.

In the meantime do let the support team know how Revit doesn't meet your needs in this so they can work on it.

[dbaldacchino]

Steve, I'll post this in the wish list and thanks for the heads up. Neb, if using the plan region method gives us trouble, using a crop region and using white filled regions to "mask" the plan would also be a good workaround. I'll return to this post once we get further along on this project to keep everyone posted about what worked or didn't.

Ok, here's a key-plan showing all the irregular areas:

[jamesd10181097]

I have worked on a few large schools also and have found that the use of scope boxes is the ONLY way to go for this. In the overall plan you can layout the scope boxes, select the scope box and give it a name say "Wing A" then in the individual views go to view properties and in the scope box line select the named scope box you want. the big advantage here is it will adjust the crop region automatically to the scope box limits but it also will rotate the view to the angle he scope box is placed at so it helps out with rotated views.

Another big advantage is that you can apply that scope box to several other views, reflected ceiling plans, floor finish plans, furniture layout plans, foundation, framing, blah, blah and they will all have the exact same crop region, rather than each having small differences.

[jamesd10181097]

Although the scope boxes can not be made into irregular shapes i think if you did rotated plans and then you could use the filled regions to conceal some portions if necessary.

if you rotate the scope boxes as i have shown in the attached image Revit will rotate the plan on the sheet, play with the command and it will become appearance pretty quickly.

[dbaldacchino]

Thanks for the tip James. We usually try to show our buildings as close to real North as possible. But then, we don't rotate wings in plan to eliminate confusion. It's just a preference and it helps the viewer stay oriented properly. Not that there's anything wrong with rotating a wing to fit a sheet (I've suggested that in the past but it was turned down).

[jamesd10181097]

Yes it can be disorienting, however as long as you have a good keyplan it is normally not a big deal. I agree it is best to avoid if possible.

even if you do not want to rotate the plans, the scope boxes should still help.

[Alvin_Alejandro]

I have worked on a few large schools also and have found that the use of scope boxes is the ONLY way to go for this. In the overall plan you can layout the scope boxes, select the scope box and give it a name say "Wing A" then in the individual views go to view properties and in the scope box line select the named scope box you want. the big advantage here is it will adjust the crop region automatically to the scope box limits but it also will rotate the view to the angle he scope box is placed at so it helps out with rotated views.

Another big advantage is that you can apply that scope box to several other views, reflected ceiling plans, floor finish plans, furniture layout plans, foundation, framing, blah, blah and they will all have the exact same crop region, rather than each having small differences.

James,

This a good Idea for my case....rotated views..

[ejburrell67787]

even if you do not want to rotate the plans, the scope boxes should still help.
When you refer to scope boxes, do you mean call-outs?

I used the duplicate view method to generate 4 sheets with 1:50 plans from a 1:100 plan at first but then realised it was better to use call-outs to create the 1:50 plans because it places a call out tag on the 1:100 plan then. (easy to turn off if not required)

[jamesd10181097]

When you refer to scope boxes, do you mean call-outs?

I used the duplicate view method to generate 4 sheets with 1:50 plans from a 1:100 plan at first but then realised it was better to use call-outs to create the 1:50 plans because it places a call out tag on the 1:100 plan then. (easy to turn off if not required)


No scope boxes are a seperate command within the drafting menu. They function more as a box drawn that defines the limits of any view that it is applies to. It does not create a view for you.

[kshawks]

this option my seem silly; however, we had a similar situation about two years ago and we used a small plan with callouts. It worked and the contractor did not have any trouble following the plan.

[dbaldacchino]

Ok, I posted a new thread with a poll in the Wishlist forum. Please take a few minutes and vote (click the link below to read the thread):

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=30222

Thanks!

[dbaldacchino]

I think this thread needed an update....

I'm not using the plan regions to split the building as mentioned in my original posts. The main reason is that I was having problems with the structural grid. The crop regions are working ok and I might use filled regions to obscure some areas. Irregular crop regions are still a necessity in my opinion, and these would crop the grid to a certain distance from the edge of the cropped area as they currently do (love this feature by the way!).

As for key plans, I'm experimenting with using an annotation tag or a symbol placed on the drawing sheet and then turning on/off the areas. Or doing a dwg file like the old days and linking it :( This is another badly needed feature.

[bbeck]

Thanks for the update on your approach to this thread. Our architectural firm only does educational facilities so we face many similar problems.

[belyo]

i think there is still something i'm missing somewhere... i'm a little slow sometimes when things aren't intuitive... so when all you people are talking about using "crop regions" are you then annotating the cropped region. or you can have one master model and duplicate with detailing...??? i guess it really just depends. its an updated version of "tag the xref or the sheet"... "tags in model or paper space"

getting started with Revit is the definition of love hate

[dbaldacchino]

Yes, in our case we're annotating the cropped views. We have views without cropping that we use as a "master" (base plan). The cropped views are similar to the x-clipped x-ref in ADT. When you're annotating in Revit, it's like adding text to Paperspace. It shows up only in that view. Unless you use Model Text....that's similar to annotating in Model Space. We set up views for AP & Ai sheets and annotate there.

[dbaldacchino]

Soooo, I came across a case where masking with filled regions doesn't work. I have started using a line-based detail component family to do match lines and at the same time mask unwanted areas (using arrays and a filled region inside the family, which yields a shape handle when in the project environment which the user drags to adjust the masked area).

Annotation isn't masked. This is no big deal in Revit as you can just delete it. But what if you are still making use of dwg backgrounds in your floor plans? We're still keeping casework separate at the moment, so we have the dwg backgrounds for casework linked in as model elements. But my detail component or filled regions don't mask text that comes with the dwgs. What am I to do?!

See attached for an example (note to self: talk to the team about all those room tags not enclosed or having?? in them!). Now this might seem like a trivial example but we're still in DD and we haven't placed all the notes on the casework and equipment plans for example, so I'm sure we'll have a lot more text showing up soon. The last thing I want to do is to make text layers by plan area in the dwgs and then have to manage their visibility in my plans sheets. At the moment that seems to be the only solution :shock: