Parametric massing modeling

[AP23]

Does anyone know anything about parametric massing modeling. I've heard that the components have fomulas built in that tell the "shape" how to twist,
rotate, grow, shrink, etc depending on the height of the building. I've also saw a presentation of the freedom tower, they use parametric massing modeling to make the twisted curtain wall shape. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=2423607

[sbrown]

Basically you make a generic model void family as a blend. Define the top and bottom shape and add a rotation parameter. Next you can use the sweep function to add solid shapes to the edges of the blend. When loaded into a project you don't see the void only the solid. as the void is flexed the solids change. So using this technique you can create very complex twisting typ strucuters. add a variable that changes per level such as angle or rotation and the results are awesome. This was demo'd at AU, but has been possible for many releases.

[cadkiller]

I also would like to know more about this capability. It would be great to see a tutorial with step by step instructions. Autodesk should show everyone what this program can do with advanced E learning courses.

How do you tell the program that this amount of rotation happens at every other floor, by a certain height or by level? What would the formula look like?

[knurrebusk]

I´m happy drawing square shapes for a living, but organic parametric modeling is very fascinating.

But why is everybody so reluctant to push for better organic tools?
A curved road on a normal odd shaped hill is child play for any average mind.

Still Revit is an infant in this area, even Chief Architect is dwarfing us.

[AP23]

I But why is everybody so reluctant to push for better organic tools?
.

If Revit doesn't come up with decent organic tools, they are going to lose the battle badly. As a company, you want to target the next generation of architects that obviously will want organic tools. And to make matters worse, lots of the organic components like double curved facades and furniture are now available in the real world.

[knurrebusk]

As a company, you want to target the next generation of architects that obviously will want organic tools. And to make matters worse, lots of the organic components like double curved facades and furniture are now available in the real world.

I´m with you 100% on this, I tried to some years ago to help a very promising young
architect to do parametric curved shapes on massive structures.

I´ll try to dig up his name, he has moved on long time ago.

[cosmickingpin]

Pretending to be AutoDesk:
"Oh but guys, fellas, we have a lot of other products that you can buy that can meet your organic needs. So just be a sport and spend a little more cash, comon be a pal already. We got Viz (no you can't have better interoperability so stop asking damnit!) we got inventor, just name it and you can have it, just spend spend SPEND!"




If Revit doesn't come up with decent organic tools, they are going to lose the battle badly. As a company, you want to target the next generation of architects that obviously will want organic tools. And to make matters worse, lots of the organic components like double curved facades and furniture are now available in the real world.

[PeterJ]

the next generation of architects that obviously will want organic tools.
They will?

Why's that?

Speaking broadly, the generation that threw up Frank Gehry, Peter Cook, Ron Herron and begat Zaha Hadid and Wil Alsop etc, also gave us Arquitectonica, Richard Meier, Mario Botta, Robert Krier, Leon Krier, Quinlan Terry and so on. For every curve there is at least one straight line, probably several, so there doesn't seem to be a massive recent historic predilection for organic design, which would in turn demand a toolset, and I can't see why one would develop now.

[sbrown]

I think the reason is this. Why reinvent and invest in creating surface modellers when they allready exist. Also the market share that needs this, is allready using other tools, so it makes sense for revit to allow you to import what the firms doing this architecture are allready using. I'm not at all saying you shouldn't ask, just my thinking on why its not at the top of the list. If I look out my window, or walk around all day long and stare at the buildings I see built, I cannot find one that revit can't do allready. At AU many organic buildings were built very easily in revit even a Gaudi building was done. I do however hope to see roads implemented very soon as when I walk around I do see lots of sites I can't model easily.

[cadkiller]

Scott;

The thing is, if Revit is suppose to be able to produce a building model the way it will actually be built, then it shouldn't expect people to rely on other programs to complete the project properly. Basic building components like structural members, mullions, etc. should be able to be done in Revit like it will be done in real life.

In reality most building materials don't just blend, they twist and rotate at the same time. Would a curtain wall manufacturer blend a rectangular steel tube from one floor to the other? No they would either segment the member and triangulate it or they would roll it with a slope.

[knurrebusk]

Agree with Cadkiller!
In real life we need to prepare for conditions that are not square.
Small stuff in Revit make me stagnate in my progress of a villa/project.

Why do I need to spend days/weeks to present walkways/roads/garden paths surrounding a home.
The design of the building´s is what´s make the income, still I need to finish surroundings too!!

[sbrown]

I'm missing something or you are, all of what you describe,(struct. elements, curved, segments, etc.) are all possible currently and easy to use(assuming you know how to use the family editor to create the content you need) and build as it is built. The only think I'm aware of that is too difficult right now is site work. So we completely agree there. In terms of building modeling and creation, the tools are there to do anything I've seen actually built in the real world.

[knurrebusk]

Ok :)

Agree that Revit is beyond anything out there if you need to model only the building.
It´s even parametric, but I lack tools that is a part of any building (not flatland)

[cadkiller]

I'm missing something or you are, all of what you describe,(struct. elements, curved, segments, etc.) are all possible currently and easy to use(assuming you know how to use the family editor to create the content you need) and build as it is built. The only think I'm aware of that is too difficult right now is site work. So we completely agree there. In terms of building modeling and creation, the tools are there to do anything I've seen actually built in the real world.I'm more than likely to be the one missing something here.

You mentioned previously that you can add sweep profile shapes to the edges of a blended void and add parameters to control the blend. I'm saying that when you blend the profile shape, it just gets blended in and doesn't follow a circular path as it rotates. You're getting a ruled surface of that profile shape. Wouldn't the profile have to follow a circular path as it's being blended. Similar to how a twisted railing picket is fabricated.

[knurrebusk]

Just to control the start/end conditions of sweeps/ramps etc would be great.
But angeled pad´s with slope defining sketch lines would be my dream.

[sbrown]

I see what you are trying to do and you are correct that there is no "loft" tool. This would help with what you want to do. There are many workarounds, but nothing easy enough to be "revit like" I guess if they give us a loft tool, then we could get around on the site much better too.

Great thread!

[knurrebusk]

But what happens if Revit can take this step forward?
Revit is very close to stepping on other Autodesk software toes.
I mean! Civil 3d is a dinosaur joke, Inventor seems very steady though.

Why did Autodesk put all their effort into Civil 3d(acad base), and not Inventor/Revit.

I never seem to understand the way manipulating beancounters plan their ways.

[knurrebusk]

I´ll bump this thread.
Sometime in the future someone will be held responsible inside the Autodesk company for neglect..

The stagnation of Revit is almost criminal in some areas, there is no exuses to divert the attention to less competive software.

4 hours of Inventor retro! made me go on another rampage sorry!

[knurrebusk]

I´ll bump again ;)

All these great breaktroughs happend on many areas, and then boom!!
Everything is like swimming in syrup.

Wake up bright minds!
Do not get ****ed by the sweet smell of big money.

I feel the smell myself, that´s why I sometime talk of this like porn.
To many average aspiring shitheads pray on the deeds/work of so few bright people.

Some of them will aspire in life to inspire/pay some bright ones again.
What a ****ed up world this is.

Been all over it.

[knurrebusk]

And before anyone calls me a lunatic, this is a retro on what happend to Lightscape.
I´ll work hard to support Maxwell Render, but if this bold attemt of art work next year.

Then Autodesk kills it in a buy out in 4 years, I´ll wonder what´s wrong with money.

[sfaust]

I want what he's having...

[cadkiller]

I also would like to know more about this capability. It would be great to see a tutorial with step by step instructions. Autodesk should show everyone what this program can do with advanced E learning courses.

How do you tell the program that this amount of rotation happens at every other floor, by a certain height or by level? What would the formula look like?
Okay enough bumping on this thread. Would anyone like to reply to my initial question?

[knurrebusk]

Okay enough bumping on this thread. Would anyone like to reply to my initial question?


I´m more than happy to endulge into this topic.
When the last projects are finished in 8-14 months this is the thing I live for.

In fact it is more important than anything.

[knurrebusk]

Why are so few humans interesred in this topic`?

[knurrebusk]

I´ve even got this old Inventor model stucked somewere.
So ****** off by better educated persons than me?

Where are the spirit of better minds?
I´m not walking on the mouintain.