Adventure in Topo land

[beegee]

Before now, I'd only used the topo tools for basic concept sketches, .. worked fine.

I recently started on a model of a split level house ( 4 different levels ) with a separate pool house on yet another level, all on a sloping site.
A driveway crosses the contours to meet a porte cochiere at one level and garages at a lower level. ( I'll post the sketches in the Gallery when they're finished ).
Anyway, the existing contours imported from the surveyor were no problem, once I figured out I could select the topo surface and lower it 85 metres to meet my building levels. I now know there is a better way ... see thread on "project Elevation " - setting a project base elevation.
First problem was creating the building pad levels. Not a problem to create, but they cut the site as a vertical penetration, not a sloped tapered bank. Ok, time for the grading tool. Thats when things got really difficult. I was trying to cut banks in the existing topo so that the lower edge matched the driveway ( split off the original surface ) and the upper level met the existing natural ground. I didnt know the levels of the driveway since it was sloping with the original surface. I think a tool similar to " merge surface" might be the answer here, since you want the pad level to meet but not join the adjacent topo surfaces. ( Merge cancels the split surface of course, and I think does some smoothing out as well ? )
Another problem is that the topo suface extends past the boundary of the site, since this is the data received from the surveyor. I would like to cut the surface at the site boundary, so that the client can clearly see the extents of their site. I don't know if that can be done. As a work around, I placed model lines to define the boundaries, but at a level above the highest topo point so they would all be visible.
So, ... long story - sorry, ... Am I misusing the tools ? is there a better way ? How have others handled topography modelling ? Should I post a request on the Wishlist Forum for improved tools ?

beegee

[christopher.zoog51272]

beegee,

While I've use the site tools al ot, I haven't done any serious accurate re-grading. I've been using the engineers "graded" topo when availible, and "getting it close" when it isn't.

However, I can tell you how to make the topo the exact shape of the site outbounds. Use the split surface tool to lop off the unwanted bits. I mean, split the surface using the pick tool and pick the outbounds. Then delete the fringe surface. :beer:

[beegee]

beegee,

However, I can tell you how to make the topo the exact shape of the site outbounds. Use the split surface tool to lop off the unwanted bits. I mean, split the surface using the pick tool and pick the outbounds. Then delete the fringe surface. :beer:

Thanks Chris,
I hadn't thought of that... :oops: Will get on to it right away.

beegee

[christopher.zoog51272]

[quote:1b391ea766="czoog"]beegee,

However, I can tell you how to make the topo the exact shape of the site outbounds. Use the split surface tool to lop off the unwanted bits. I mean, split the surface using the pick tool and pick the outbounds. Then delete the fringe surface. :beer:

Thanks Chris,
I hadn't thought of that... :oops: Will get on to it right away.

beegee[/quote:1b391ea766]

:D working on a weekend?

[beegee]

:D working on a weekend?

Yeah,

Weekends were made so you can catch up with all the stuff the didn't get to during the week :( wern't they ?

Hey, I tried spitting the surface to delete the edges, but keep getting the message " The splitting lines must split the surface into exactly two pieces ". Looking at it - they seem to, however there are already 2 separate topo surfaces in the sketch. Could that be the probelm ? I wouldn't think so. Should I post an image ?

beegee

[christopher.zoog51272]

sure post a screen shot.

sometimes you have to it a "side" at a time and make sure the lines extend all the way to edges :!:

[beegee]

sure post a screen shot.

sometimes you have to it a "side" at a time and make sure the lines extend all the way to edges :!:

Thanks,

by working one boundary at a time, I was able to do it. Is that quirky or what ?

beegee

[Dean Camlin]

beegee wrote:
Another problem is that the topo suface extends past the boundary of the site, since this is the data received from the surveyor. I would like to cut the surface at the site boundary, so that the client can clearly see the extents of their site. I don't know if that can be done. As a work around, I placed model lines to define the boundaries, but at a level above the highest topo point so they would all be visible.

Instead of using model lines to define the boundary, use property lines. They should be visible regardless of the topo surface.


I think a tool similar to " merge surface" might be the answer here, since you want the pad level to meet but not join the adjacent topo surfaces.

I agree. Better grading tools has been high on my wishlist since the topo tools first came out.

[beegee]

Instead of using model lines to define the boundary, use property lines. They should be visible regardless of the topo surface.

Thanks Dean,

I did have property lines in the site plan, but they were not showing in 3D view. I'll have to check my view properties.

beegee

[Dean Camlin]

beegee said:
I did have property lines in the site plan, but they were not showing in 3D view. I'll have to check my view properties.

I don't think property lines are "smart" enough to know they should follow the topo surface; I don't think they'll show up in your 3D view. However, you should be able to use them as guidelines to cut off your topo surface sketch in the plan view.

[beegee]

beegee said:
I did have property lines in the site plan, but they were not showing in 3D view. I'll have to check my view properties.

I don't think property lines are "smart" enough to know they should follow the topo surface; I don't think they'll show up in your 3D view. However, you should be able to use them as guidelines to cut off your topo surface sketch in the plan view.

Right, I misunderstood what you wrote. Yes, I was able to use the property lines as a guide line.

Thanks

beegee

[funkman]

I would love better site tools. How often does a site not integrate with adjoining properties and sites? Examples include driveways and paths that need to be graded correctly.

I am working on a project that has an existing driveway and we are relocating this a small amount. Then theres another new driveway on the same site but in another position, enter grading, splits in phases etc. ugh. I am thinking it may be easier to just draft (sheesh - did I just say that? :shock: ). But this won't show right in my rendering/3d's. Looks like I will have to do it riiite again. Like Dr Nick - oooh blooooood, I haaaate dat.

[PeterJ]

I have a site with modelled topo, including a mix of materials. What I did was made a copy of the interesting bit of the overall site when it was still a single lump of default topo material and moved it by 100,000 mm a nice round figure and sufficient to get it out of my way. Then I went on and split it to concrete, tarmac, grass etc all in the righht shapes.

All of that was going on in phase 'Site'. Somewhere down the line I have phase Enabling Works and in that phase I moved the copy back into its correct location and demolished the earlier stuff. Then I was able to cut up the blank bit in the current selection of materials and do all the necessary regrading so that volumes are correctly reported.

Its a long way around but it worked.

[J-G]

Peter,

Just to make sure I understood, you model the original topo, then copy it out of the way. Finally you make of the the changes grading, driveway, pads, etc. After all of the changes are complete you move the copied original back into place, so that it can show existing/new grade, and report on cut/fill.

Is this correct? I have used the site tools a little for grading, and did find that Revit simply seems to create a copy on a new phase, but just copying the original out of the way while you make your changes could be easier.

[J-G]

beegee,

It had been a while since I last played with sites, but on my last project (as with most of them) there was some grading to do. I first used pads at the areas I wanted cut. As you said pads will cut directly vertical through the grade. I created a pad style named "cut grade" with a thickness of about 1/8" and "site - earth" as the material. This may not be the best way, but it seemed to work for me and gives you a nice clean vertical cut at the house, or at retaining walls.

The other graded region tool seems to work pretty well (it could be more intuitive). One thing that might help is to take out a pencil and sketch out where you want the new contour lines to fall - then model set the point elevations so that you have what you want.

Perhaps a nice tool to have would be a cut/ fill tool. I would love to specify the starting point of a cut and the angle of the cut (1:2, 1:1.5, etc). Then it could just cut to existing grade.

[beegee]

Hi Jon,

I'll give you thin pad method a try next time.


One thing that might help is to take out a pencil and sketch out where you want the new contour lines to fall

My gawd ! You'll be telling me to hitch the horses to the buggy next !
No, seriously , the old pencil is still a useful tool.


Perhaps a nice tool to have would be a cut/ fill tool. I would love to specify the starting point of a cut and the angle of the cut (1:2, 1:1.5, etc). Then it could just cut to existing grade

Yes, I agree that would be a useful tool.

[PeterJ]

Jon

Not quite!

Grading only works as I understand it, on a single piece of topo, so if you have an existing site that has a road running across it and grass either side you need to edit all three individually and consistency, particularly at tyhe edge can be difficult to achieve.

I model the grading of the topo then duplicate it and split the original up into the various finishes, then I work with the duplicate to achieve grading and final version finishes. I use an extra phase, "Enabling Works" between Site and New Construction, to demolish the existing topo and set the duplicate of the original form as created in that phase so that it will do the volume reports etc correctly when manipulated in the New Construction phase.

If that's still not clear I'll do you a diagram as I have to explain the same thing to someone else too.

[J-G]

Peter,

That sounds interesting. I have only used the grading tool on single surfaces (we typically work on lots that have not been developed. If you ever have time a diagram would be interesting.

[David]

By all means Peter, diagram please. The extra phase enabling works is also unclear.

[PeterJ]

Bugger!

What have I let myself in for here?

I'll sort you out this week if I can.