Hollow Metal Door Frame?

[m_cahoon14336]

MY WEEKEND PROJECT!
I need a wood door in a hollow metal frame? The door needs to be a
1-3/4" x 3'-0" x 7'-0". The frame needs to have 2" jambs and a 4" head. The door / frame will be used in an exterior masonry wall, therefore the frame will need to be set in 3" from the exterior face of brick. I can not get use to revit doors in plan view that do not have door frames, especially in cmu and brick exterior walls.
I would like to learn the mechanics of making doors, frames and door families. You know, give a guy a door, and he only has one door, but teach him to make a door, and he has doors forever. I have spent a few hours with this already, without much success. Could someone step me thru this process and help me with this?

[beegee]

Weeell, firstly theres a very good tutorial on this - "Creating a Door Family "

Once you're been through that you can either build your family from scratch for the practice and experience, or else take an existing family and modify its frames to what you need.

[sbrown]

heres mine

[Dean Camlin]

A while ago I posted several door/H.M. frame combinations as "inset" doors on the RUGI site. I called them inset because the frames don't wrap around the wall opening & thus the rough wall opening is locked to the outside edge of the frame, the way doors are often built into masonry walls.

[Jarod]

Has anyone talked to Revit on why the Doors don't have frames out of the box with the software? This just seems crazy to me that I have to go into the door family and add them... :banghead:

[Scott D Davis]

its not 'standard practice' in the US to show door frames in plan. (im not agreeing or disagreeing with this) Some have said the UK doors have frames, which can be opened and converted to imperial.

Others have done doors with frames on Rugi.

[Jarod]

It sure would be nice to see in section?!?! and I guess that is where I'm the most dumb founded that it doesn't show...

[PaulB]

Would it be possible to add things like a frame as a visibility parameter so you can choose when to display :?:

[beegee]

Many of the AUS door families already have the frames set to dispaly only in medium or fine detail views.

[Scott D Davis]

Most definately, thanks to 6.1 and the on/off parameter. You could set it up to control frames by instance, or by type. Instance would give you individual control of frames on doors, while by type, would turn frames on or off for every door of that type in the model.

[beegee]

I'm trying to think when you would want some door frames on and some off in the same view.

Nope, can't think of when I would want that .. :D

Coarse, Medium and Fine visibility seems enough control to me at the moment.

[PaulB]

Beegee,

What if you you changed between having an architrave and not having an architrave. You could do this with visibilty control without having to change to a different door type. The frame was only an example because of the question. It may be that there are other bits of detail elsewhere that you may want/not want to see in the the same view visibility (course, fine, etc.). It would just provide an extra level of control.

It is not always possible to think of when you would need this extra level of control but you when you do need it it's nice to have.

[Scott D Davis]

How about having two frames in a door family. One for wrapping situations (stud wall) and one for non-wrapping (masonry). You could then turn on the appropriate frame, and turn off the other one dependiong on wall type. What would be even better, is if>then formulas, so the door would recognize what wall type its in. If masonry, then no-wrap frame, if stud, then wrap.

[cliff collins]

Scott--the formula thing is a great idea--how would you set it up?
:?:
Cliff Collins

[Scott D Davis]

I'm not sure?? :screwy: We need one of the guys from the Factory to help us out. I'm not sure if in a formula, we can call a parameter such as 'wall type'. Formulas work like this:

IF (<condition>, <result-if-true>, <result-if-false>)

a real fomula might be something like:

=IF (Length < 3000mm, 200mm, 300mm)

So we would need a formula like:

=IF (WALL TYPE = 8" MASONRY, FRAME ON, FRAME OFF)

This would check to see if the wall was 8" Masonry. If it was, it would turn the frame on, other wise it would turn it off.

To get two frames to display depending on wall type, we would need a nested formula, like:

=IF ( TYPE ONE, FRAME ONE ON, IF ( TYPE 2, FRAME 2 ON, IF ( TYPE 3, FRAME 3 ON ) ) )

This is all speculation. I'm not sure we can actually do this yet in Revit, because some of the code might not be exposed, although it is all there. Another complication would be custom compound walls. How would we tell Revit to check a Custom Wall Type? Maybe walls need another parameter added that would set the type. We could make a compound wall, and set the "core" to stud, and then doors inserted into it would react as it was a stud wall.

Wow, I'm thinking out loud and typing. Is any of this making sense?

[beegee]

Beegee,

What if you you changed between having an architrave and not having an architrave. You could do this with visibilty control without having to change to a different door type.

Sure, thats a valid case for a visibility formula.

[beegee]

I'm not sure?? :screwy: We need one of the guys from the Factory to help us out. I'm not sure if in a formula, we can call a parameter such as 'wall type'.

At present, couldn't it be done with a manual switch - 'Wrap On -- Wrap Off ' ( sounds like a martial arts movie )

(edit by SD: Ahhhh Danielson, you are fast learner, young grasshopper! Now do paint de fence....up, down)

[m_cahoon14336]

its not 'standard practice' in the US to show door frames in plan. (im not agreeing or disagreeing with this) :lol:

Scott, Where can I order a copy of the US 'standard practice' manual? Is it standard practice to show window jambs with windows?

[adegnan]

How about having two frames in a door family. One for wrapping situations (stud wall) and one for non-wrapping (masonry). You could then turn on the appropriate frame, and turn off the other one dependiong on wall type. What would be even better, is if>then formulas, so the door would recognize what wall type its in. If masonry, then no-wrap frame, if stud, then wrap.

I am plannning on using the same concept for muntin styles as I am re-vamping the Andersen windows. Creating additional Object Styles ie, Grille-Colonial and Grille-Prairie. Then in the project, turn the grilles on or off as necessary, and get any of 3 choices: Prairie, Colonial, or None.

I did so in one window template so far but set that to low priority for myself. Sketching muntins is time consuming!! (Any suggestions for making it faster??)

But it works.

[TeamRPM]

Thus far Revit does not handle 'if/then' statements. However I've heard a few rumors that this type of parameter may be coming in future releases. This type of functionality would be incredibly powerful, lets keep our fingers crossed and watch the upgrades.

[christopher.zoog51272]

Thus far Revit does not handle 'if/then' statements. However I've heard a few rumors that this type of parameter may be coming in future releases. This type of functionality would be incredibly powerful, lets keep our fingers crossed and watch the upgrades.

depends on what do you mean by if/then?

Doesn't "IF (<condition>, <result-if-true>, <result-if-false>)" result in an if/then condidition.

If condition is true then do this, if conditioon is false then do that.