Revisions -- Best Practices

[gregcashen]

Hi all,

I am trying to figure out the best way to document revisions on sheets.

It seems that there are two ways to do this, and some projects may go in any one direction, but I want to see what is "most common".
In my experience, "revisions" and "issues" tend to show up in same table.
i.e. "Permit Set" will get listed alongside "Revision 1". The difference being that a permit set does not use revision clouds to demark it, where a revision uses explict graphic conventions (cloud and revision tag)

Here are the two options I am aware of:

1) Revisions show up on sheet titleblock only if the sheet has a revision on it.
2) Revisions show up on all sheet titleblocks, even if no revisions are on the sheet.
3) Some other method which you will politely explain below.

Another question worth asking:
Do you differentiate between tracking issue dates and revision dates?

Thanks,
Greg

[bclarch]

Have used both options 1 & 2. Advantage of #1 is that it is easier for contractors to tell what sheets have actual revisions on them and you can issue only the revised sheets. Disadvantage is that tracking changes becomes an issue. Contractors are never quite sure if the sheet is current because it might only list 3 revisions while other sheets have 4 or more. They begin to wonder if the sheet with 3 revisions should really have 4 etc.

The advantage of option #2 is that everyone is clear what revision # each sheet should have because they should be all the same. Revision note on unchanged sheets should state "no changes this sheet" so the contractor doesn't tear his hair out trying to figure out if something was changed without being clouded. Disadvantage is that you have to replot & reprint sheets that haven't changed to keep the entire set current. Not a big deal on a 5 sheet set but a pain and an expensive option on a large drawing set.

Another trick we used to use was to only issue bluelines through the DD phase. Once the drawings were issued for construction we only allowed blackline sets to be printed. If you saw anyone on the jobsite using bluelines you knew immediately that they were using an old drawing set. However, our repro service has gone digital and everything is now printed in black either directly from plot files or by digitally photocopying our plots. No more bluelines as an easy field check.

[Scott D Davis]

No more bluelines, but you can change the color of the paper! Repro houses have pink bond, blue bond, almost any color you want. Print the revised sets on a different color paper.

[Scott Hopkins]

Greg,

I prefer to print revision tags on every sheet regardless of whether there are any revisions on that specific sheet. The sheets of construction drawing sets are by nature very interrelated. Ideally when you print revisions, you deliver an entire new drawings set to the contractor. Despite your best intentions to keep the set together, the first thing the general contractor often does is divide up the sheets and give them out to various subs bidding the job. If someone is looking at a detail call-out on a sheet that hasn't been marked with a revision tag, they have know way of knowing if the reverenced detail sheets are up to date. Whereas if all the sheet title-blocks are marked with revision tags there is no question as to whether you are looking at the most recent release of a particular sheet.


That said, it also depends on the size of the projects you are working on. For very large projects the sets are usually too large to reprint the entire set of drawings, so revision tags just end up on the reprinted sheets.

[JamesVan]

Our drawing sheets are often issued hundreds of times during the life of a job. As such, the index of issues/revisions is unique to each sheet. Also, because the sequential numbering of revisions would become too large, too fast, we uniquely number any given set of revisions for each sheet that is revised. For example, a set of revisions that may be described as "ADDENDUM No. 47" may show up as revision number "6" on one sheet and number "15" on another sheet. This is cumbersome to manage, but a necessary evil.

In its current state, Revit seems to function quite well if a revisions issue is consistently numbered, but doesn't work the way we actually use it. I have spoken with the 'factory' about this to great lengths and hope to see some enhanced capabilities in the near future.

[bclarch]

No more bluelines, but you can change the color of the paper! Repro houses have pink bond, blue bond, almost any color you want. Print the revised sets on a different color paper.

Hadn't thought of that. I'll have to see what our repro guys have to offer.

[David Kim]

Greg,
What I find helpful is to note on all the titleblocks the issue or revision name. If a sheet has a revision, it has a revision tag, cloud and on the titleblock, the revision tag is shown with the revision description. If the sheet did not have a change, the revision number is only shown.

[ita]

Isn't relying on a drawing to be the sole document that communicates the revision number and revision a little archaic in Project Admin. Most revisions involve a written instruction to the contractor plus a variation request attached or included in the instruction (this is the one we use). the Proj Admin receive the drawings with the instructions plus a schedule of amnedments and revision numbers.

Perhaps the issue is not what is on the drawings but seeing the drawings as one form of communication of information regarding the project and that other (cross-referenced) documents can convey the amendments on a scheduled and then the contractor can seek out the drawing changes from the other communications.

I think it is rather dangerous legally to hope that a revision on a drawing will be picked up and acted on without supporting documentation :shock: :shock:

Housework by moderator

[JamesVan]

I think it is rather dangerous legally to hope that a revision on a drawing will be picked up and acted on without supporting documentation :shock: :shock:


Welcome to America!

[bclarch]

Ita,

Even if we are diligent in documenting changes and distributing them properly we can't count on the contractor to follow through with his subcontractors. I have been on jobsites where subs were working off of the preliminary drawings that they were given for bidding. :shock: This is obvoiusly an extreme example but missing one revision is very easy to imagine. Being able to tell, with certainty, in the field, which drawings are current is a necessity regardless of back up documentation in the office. Joe Lunchbox works off of the drawings, not memos.

[Henry D]

Revisions are one of the trickiest part of a project - for the Architect because you have to make sure you've changed every document which a revision may affect. I agree with blarch, in my experience the pages of documentation describing the revision items are usually left in an office so I think the drawings have to clearly show what is revised with dated revision clouds - if the contractor still doesn't understand the change he can then refer to the written documentation, but at least he is alerted to the change. I had one job where they didn't even distribute the revisions which they had for over 6 months to the field and then wondered why a window they ordered didn't match their built opening. The most annoying part was then they tried to blame the Architect - Duh!

[gregcashen]

The most annoying part was then they tried to blame the Architect - Duh!

That's just SOP nowadays...and it spells the death of this profession. As seen in the 'burbs, where there are almost no homes designed by architects anymore. :cry:

[funkman]

Revisions are one of the trickiest part of a project - for the Architect because you have to make sure you've changed every document which a revision may affect.

Interesting point - is there a way where if you vary one or more items in the design (say for instance a window and wall position) then Revit will tell you what views/sheets have changed (sections, elevations schedules etc) and hence we are able to issue only the varied drawings?

[beegee]

is there a way where if you vary one or more items in the design (say for instance a window and wall position) then Revit will tell you what views/sheets have changed (sections, elevations schedules etc) and hence we are able to issue only the varied drawings?

In theory, that's possible.

Do you think its a wishlist item ?

[PaulB]

That was one of my first questions to the Autodesk reps when they were showcasing Revit. They were very proud of the fact that Revit changed everything for you without you having to scour the drawings and amend all the sheets/views that were affected by what you did on, say the plan. This is all very well but Revit changes things that you may not be aware of and you may forget to bubble the revisions on the other sheets.

The answer was NO Revit cannot (or at the time does not) highlight what has changed or what sheets / views have changed. You have to do that yourself, OK that's fair enough because we have always had to do that anyway.

Given the fact that Revit's internal engine obviously knows what to change you would think that this may be a feature that would be worthwhile having although you would have to be careful that if you changed something and then changed it back this is not highlighted as a revision. So you would still need to manually check the drawings anyway.

nuffsaid !

[Wes Macaulay]

This is an extraordinarily important thread. Although, watching Vancouver clobber Calgary was more important :lol:

It goes to show that the current process of paper drawings in the field is inherently problematic, yet there is no easy way to change the technology or culture of documentation on the field. Getting the latest revisions to the people on site, or in the shop, is a major problem. Wouldn't it be nice if all of them had good computer skills... that way all the trades could be kept in the loop by a project website or other electronic means when new versions of the CDs were put out. The job trailers all would have a bulletin board with large letters proclaiming the latest version number of each consultants drawings or specs. If your drawings are obsolete, you hunt someone down who can get the latest PDFs and DWFs printed. (It pleases me that Autodesk is talking to Oce about making DWFs something that can be readily reproduced!)

On large projects, document control is critical.

[Steve_Stafford]

The answer, "no it can't be done in Revit"...thankfully doesn't mean that this issue isn't "on the table" or isn't important. I know from discussions at Autodesk University with a few different people that part of the reason a more comprehensive revision strategy isn't present is that our (industry) existing management process for them isn't coherent enough.

Their (our) goal is to provide a way to manage them but be flexible enough that firms can use it in a way that makes sense for each. I'm confident they'll (the factory) will come up with an elegant solution. (and that is what Dale Carnegie would call, "Giving a person a fine reputation to live up to" :D )

[christo4robin]

To pick up on metanoia's post,

I envision a future when the subs walk onto the jobsite in the morning, swing into the job trailer and pick up their PDA that has the latest drawing info in it (hot-sync'd overnight with the info that was revised 1/2 way around the world). The PDA's are tuned for the trade and have a note that calls their attention to any changes. The sub can choose the display language on the fly. These PDA's are industrial strength - you can drop it from the roof and on the way down it inflates its prophylactic balloon to absorb the impact and save itself. Also, the sub can pull up info on associated work/trades to cross reference.

Nirvana!

[Steve_Stafford]

I think you are thinking of the clipboard flatscreen that just hovers, no need to worry about dropping it...you don't have to hold it (except to write something down or browse the project docs) and it will follow you around the site and bump into you when a revision is posted and keep bumping into you until you actually check out the revision...(unless you are >5 feet above the ground, then it whistles and says, "Nice legs"!)

[Scott D Davis]

ahhh....visions of the future! :D

[Wes Macaulay]

I envision a future when the subs walk onto the jobsite in the morning, swing into the job trailer and pick up their PDA that has the latest drawing info in it (hot-sync'd overnight with the info that was revised 1/2 way around the world).
As long as the drawings weren't created in India, eh!

This is a great concept -- when I think of where Revit and MEP are now, and where they're heading, and the intelligence of DWF now and where it could be, something like this could well be possible, and without much programming hardship.

Being able to have global categories for each consultants work -- and each of those consultants having to use Revit's preset categories for the objects in their disciplines (so that ad hoc layer naming isn't an issue -- makes the drawing more easily managed by the trades)... well, you can see the future.

And maybe these PDA's would have or plug into some sort of display or projector so that could have a larger, detailed view of the building when they need it.