Revit vs ADT

[JFW271919]

My firm has been gearing up to move to the latest and greatest cad software. We currently are using ADT 3.3. My partner and I have been thinking about Revit and have heard a lot of good things about it untill we talked to a Autodesk rep. and they basically downed the entire program and recommended the latest version of ADT. :? I would like to get some general feedback on the pros and cons of Revit in a progresive architectural firm that produces CD's and works in 3D on a regular basis.
Thanks to all that apply
JFW
Savannah Ga. 8)

[Andre Baros]

I can't say much about Desktop because I didn't have the patience to learn it. We evaluated between ArchiCAD and Revit and went with Revit because it was SOOO easy to pick up (and because we're pretty invested in Autodesk). There is about a week of adjustment time while you change from thinking about drawings to thinking about building but then everything moves smoothly. Revit is still rough around the edges but it has the brighter future and returns more for the time you invest into it. Any project you could produce in AutoCAD you could produce in Revit faster.

We've only completed 1 set of CD's in Revit so far and 2 sets of DD's for projects which are now on hold so I still haven't had a chance to push the envelope with Revit but we have not reached any limits yet.

[SkiSouth]

Typical Autocad Rep. There's only one guy that I trust to be straight about the pros and cons of each - email doug at dmm@caddesk.com.
The pros for Autodesk - either way they win - they own both. Disadvantage for Rep - he has to know both - and it sounds like your guy doesn't know Revit.

Been doing CAD since 1983 (anyone remember IBM Fastdraft?) And Adesk since 1983 too. First time I looked at revit, I thought it was interesting, but I really didn't understand HOW Revit works for YOU :D - So I opted to upgrade my ADT for ADT 4.0 - man, what is going on there? - Its a whole new learning curve, so I revisited Revit - figured I'd give it one good look (you know Demo time) and one project. Worked Hard, fussed a lot, but ---- It is really cool once you UNLEARN AutoCAD.

Another point- IF Revit is so bad- Why did Autodesk buy it? Why did a Senior Vice President say after Acquiring Revit that ADT would be dead in 7 years? (Which was later played down) I could rant for days - my nature - so I won't.

Let me suggest this. Select a principal, download Revit AND the complete tutorials - Work through the tutorials - You might even invest in CDV's
Introductory couseware for Revit 5.1. Work through the book, then make your decision. (I say principal because they don't do anything but they make the decisions--- :lol: ) Seriously, I think you'll see how Revit makes you money - For me it was in proving the design - If you don't draw it on the model it ain't there - Talk about Errors and Omissions checking--- and once you see that when you finish with the plan - all the elevations, are complete - not to mention sections -you see Dollar signs everywhere
Anyway - CDV is reached at www. cdvsystems.com

Good luck .... If you are interested I'll email you a set of in progress CD's
(PDF's) - that you can review - NO LAUGHING THOUGH - of the bank I've been working on lately - Its about 25 Megs worth - so be careful what you ask for...

[Scott D Davis]

it untill we talked to a Autodesk rep. and they basically downed the entire program and recommended the latest version of ADT.

Somebody's rep is on crack! Get another opinion! "5 out of 6 Dentists recommend...." well, you talked to the odd-man-out first.

[Nic M.]

I had the same experience here. "Revit is CAD for girls" was one of the statements of a Adesk representetive. :shock:
We are a small (2 person) office.
I have experienced ADT3.3 and decided it was not for us. For our office it ment huge overkill in CADcost (customization, training, ....) only to find out you still dont have a correct 3D model and you have to draw a lot in 2d.
We use Revit for almost a year now. We are getting up to speed with the program and the return is great.
We used ACAD LT 2000 and we kept track on the time spent on a typical project (residential). From day one we used Revit, we did not exceed this time frame. Today we are slightly under the same time frame but the return is trippled or more (4 or 5 full sections instead of 1 , al kinds of details of custom problems, accurate elevations ,a 3dmodel with renderings and material choises, schedules,...)
I definite can say we have much more grip on our project than we used to.
I forgot to mention the pleasure it is to work with, a big one in my opinion.

Download the 60 day full working demo and do it now...

(Allready starting to talk like an american, jee :? ....)

[JFW271919]

Sounds good...Id like to see that if you dont mind. Email is jwubbena@hansensavannah.com Its a dsl line so I should be able to handle large files....no prob. I think that Revit is the way to go too...but I have others that are now sceptical so Im on a mission to prove its the way to go. Thanks for the info and replies again!! Keep em comin.

Later
Jim Wubbena

[BillyGrey]

Ummm, one other thing...

ADT is an entrenched leader in the dying paradigm of architecture that is soooo top heavy and wasteful.

You used the word progressive...

If you want to utilize a powerful, liberating design and documentation tool....

it really is revit

[gregcashen]

AbigayleAEC is a member here and is my reseller in CA. She is out of your territory, but she will give you a real answer from a real solutions provider. The firm she works for, AEC Technologies, is based in Northern California, and they are heavily promoting Revit over ADT for it's ease of use, rapid return to the customer, etc. Feel free to give her a call and I am sure you will begin to see the light. There are other pro-Revit resellers here as well who are very in touch with Revit. jeffrey mcgrew works for the same reseller, ajay holland for another, aaron rumple for another (well he did, anyway), I could go on and on and on...

[JFW271919]

One question is if Revit is customizable....are there ways to take the wall styles or window styles and create a new style with ease. We tend to have some unusual wall construction and the custom part of Revit is something that the "Rep" said was impossible. I have begun to feel like the guy we talked to had no idea how to even open the program. It also amazes me that there are Autodesk reps out there that will down a program by the company. Thanks again to all that reply and have replied.

Jim Wubbena
Savannah Ga.

[Scott D Davis]

Yes, any conceivable componet is creatable in Revit. You can create any wall style, and window, any door, or any other object you want. Revit is fully customizable in this regard.

I am amazed by the Reps that have no idea about a product. Isn't there some kind of test or something to authorize one as an 'official' rep?

[BillyGrey]

"Rep" said was impossible

That my friend, is an intentionally misleading statement, a blatant lie, or a totally ignorant claim.

Take your pick.

Me thinks your associates really need to take a look into this thread/forum, and do as Greg C. suggests. Speak with someone who actually knows the prog. Also, the current demo will run for 60 days, including saves and plott. Just download it, then give us a shout. You want a custom wall style? They are simple and intuitive to create. Just ask, and you will receive open, honest help and answers

[sfaust]

I have to agree with Billy, whoever that was at autodesk should be fired, Revit wall styles, components, roof styles, floor styles, and pretty much everything else is far more easily customizable than ADT from my experience.

Tell him to at least open the box. Then never talk to him again and download the trial and see for yourself.

[SkiSouth]

My favorite saying today is a Chinese proverb: "Those who say something is impossible should not interrupt those doing it."

[Cathy Hadley]

"Revit is CAD for girls"

Why Thank you!! We will take it!!! and then watch out!!! :wink:

Seriously tho.... there must be other Autodesk Resellars in your area... the company line is supposed to be... both are great... lets figure out which is BEST for YOUR company....

I was also an ADT3.3 user ... jumped into Revit and have NEVER regretted it. I have however had the opportunity to help out with some ADT4 firms... and it was .... in a word ... disheartening. Knowing there is in my opinion such a BETTER and less complicated solution...

CZH

[JFW271919]

One more question for all 8) .....what do most do when sending a revit design to a consultant who is using AutoCad 2000 or ADT. I assume that there is a export so that these consultants would be able to get the appropriate drawing or view.

Thanks....this forum is a life saver!! :lol:

[Scott D Davis]

Revit has full export capabilites to DWG, DXF, and DGN (microstation). You determine the translation of layers/colors to DWG, via Export Layers tools. You can also use a default layering scheme, such as the AIA guideline, which comes with Revit.

So, you work with consultants in Revit, just as you would in AutoCAD: Send them a DWG.

[gregcashen]

One more question for all 8) .....what do most do when sending a revit design to a consultant who is using AutoCad 2000 or ADT. I assume that there is a export so that these consultants would be able to get the appropriate drawing or view.

Thanks....this forum is a life saver!! :lol:

Revit exports cleaner DWGs than your best draftsman can produce from scratch.

[brentcarlson892079]

When exporting to ACAD, Revit makes a "Main Drawing" with views that are x-refs. And it makes a .pcp file for them to use to plot the drawing with the same line weights. See image for example.

[Scott D Davis]

To follow on Brent's thread:

When exporting out a sheet in Revit, the DWG export will result in several files. A main DWG, the xref DWG's, and the PCP file. Open the main DWG, and the xrefs will be all set up, titleblock in Paperspace, 2D plans in modelspace...every thing layered properly.....very clean export.

Export out of Revit from a view (such as floor plan view) and you will get only one DWG file: 2D for plans, elevations,etc. 3D if exported from a 3D view.

[David Sammons]

You can export DWG files to consultants who use ADT or ACAD. However, as a structural engineering consultant who uses Revit, I would prefer to work on the Revit model with the architect. To me, this is one of the great values of Revit since this process significantly improves coordination and reduces errors.

Dave S.

[Wes Macaulay]

I have however had the opportunity to help out with some ADT4 firms... and it was .... in a word ... disheartening. Knowing there is in my opinion such a BETTER and less complicated solution...
No kidding. We've got ADT 2004 firms implementing it and wondering how their pallettes and tool catalogs will import into 2005... it makes me want to kill myself and make it look like an accident.

http://www.pat.ca/deathbyadt.gif

[gregcashen]

Funny #$%^! :lol:

[nrenfro]

I think you have to work outside the normal parameters for a little while while resellers what's going on. We have had a very shaky start with our reseller simply because they were not equipped to handle Revit at the time. The simple truth is that Autodesk seams to be aware the their resellers haven't the resources to support the product, and they are filling the gap. Subscription provides you with phone support and live interactive web classes. Now may actually be one of the better times to adopt Revit as the support structure is centralized and not bogged down. Revit's ability to export DWG's & DXF's is seamless, I don't think some of our consultants know the difference. All of our new projects as of January are 100% Revit. this along with the fact that office wide training started in mid December Output has not been a problem even during training. We are 7 member firm, small enough to be flexable, large enough to remain profitable.
BTW our reseller is keenly aware the tides are shifting and is adapting.

[AbigayleAEC]

wubbena, I'm sorry to hear that your local reseller hasn't clued in to the power of Revit. As Greg C noted, my company AEC Technologies is an Autodesk reseller that "gets Revit" and we are investing our time and resources to grow the local Revit community. We simply don't see customers as happy with ADT as they are with Revit. We want happy, productive, successful customers, so we feel Revit is the best solution.

The reason why other resellers downplay Revit is because they don't have personnel to support it. They don't want to sell you a product they can't support, because then you may find a competitor that can support you with Revit. I find that this is very common and very problematic.

I would do a search for your local resellers by visiting Autodesk's website (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1088201&wac=IL18085)

I highly recommend you work with a local reseller that is knowledgeable about Revit so you can attend their Revit seminars and training classes.

Good luck!

Greg C cleaned up the url and fixed a typo.

[ita]

wubbena, I have been using CAD in some form since 1979. I spent 6 months to get to totally know ADT 3.3, after investing some 12 years as a ACad user. Then Revit arrived on the scene.

I signed up with a crossover deal for the ADT about 4 weeks later and have been a Reviteer ever since. Look there are some frustrating things about Revit, but I expect that. It is a young application but it is growing fast.

If you want to invest in documentation glue - invest in ACad or ADT. If you want to invest in the beginning of the future invest in ArchiCad, Microsation or Revit. Personally (and after looking at them all) I chose Revit without hesitation. Its simple (in essence) and effective and makes my life easier and profitable.

I have been a practicing architect for some 35 years. In the days when I ran people I had a practice with 8 to 10 people. I have always been a hands on practitioner - I can do everything I want my people to do and then some. I have used a myriad of applications and written a lot of software. My choice - Revit!!

Try it before you make the decision. Go check out the opposition, then try it again. I can be resonably certain that you will choose Revit!!

[Cathy Hadley]

Wes...

I just have to ask... Death by Pastry?!?

Thanks for that... :lol:

CZH

[mlgatzke]

I'm sorry everyone. . . I have to jump in.

wubbena,

I was an ADT devote' until about 2 years ago when I first touched Revit. I came home on a Friday afternoon, installed Revit for a "quick" test drive, took a break for dinner when my wife called me in. Next thing I knew it was 3am and I was having a blast.

I teach Architectural drafting at a community college in Iowa. I immediately added Revit to my curriculum and have seen amazing results. My students are able to accomplish approximately 50% more work in Revit than my previous students could in ADT. . . and they're doing it with less lab time. Also, they aren't asking about lines, arcs and circles anymore. They're asking about wall and floor construction, how assemblies are connecting, and what materials are being used. . . real construction thought processes, not drafting thought processes. This project is a 20,000 sq.ft. commercial building (1 floor with mech. penthouse) and they complete a 9 sheet set of drawings in less than 300 hours. And these are STUDENTS who have to learn Revit at the same time they're learning commercial construction techniques!

Personally, I contract residential projects on the side. I've seen an almost 300% increase in my efficiency on projects. My design work becomes part of my design development work, which becomes part of my construction document work. For instance, I am just finishing up a house for a client. A fairly small project, about 1800 sq.ft. Design development on this project took on the project (with a major design change) took 35 hours in meetings and computer time. My time involved in taking DDs to CDs was only 10 hours with about 1 hour remaining (when I get the structural calcs back).

Also, the views you construct to create and evaluate the design and construction can be kept and refined for CD views.

Contractors LOVE my sets because they're more thorough than they're used to, more complete, and if there's a view I haven't provided - I can cut one and refine it in very short order and fax it to them very quickly.

Revit is bringing FUN back into my work and projects.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry for the length.

[corinoco]

My AUS$0.03 (it equals about US$0.02)

I have used a *lot* of CAD systems over 12 years or so. I started out in Unix-based mainframe systems like Eagle (much lamented), and quickly moved to the industry "standard" AutoCAD r12 (at the time). I have spent most of my career on AutoCAD r14 which was about the best as AutoCAD got, to my mind. In between that I have used some rather esoteric systems, such as the quirky CaddsMan v3-4, an Australian product that tried to do what Revit does, but didn't quite bring it all together the way Revit does. I have also worked with the Mac-based MiniCAD (now Vectorworks)

5 years ago I started working at a Very Large Architecture Firm (well, for australia, about 50 people) that had a major commitment to AutoCAD r14. At the time I was working on large projects in China, so it was vital that we were able to type Mandarin characters into our CAD drawings. AutoCAD r14 could do this - kicking and screaming were required, but at least it was possible. The Firm then upgraded to ADT3.3 because an Autodesk Rep (spot the pattern...) told them tha ADT Was The One True Way Of Doing CAD. Well, it was nothing short of a disaster, mainly due to all of our mandarin text getting totally screwed. Around the same time, a good mate of mine started using this neat new system called Revit, and I showed that to my team manager in the Firm; he was interested enough to let us try it out on a project, after all, it was the first CAD program we had even seen that would handle Chinese text perfectly.

The trial of Revit was a stunning success, and that Firm has now converted over half of it's ADT seats over to Revit 6.1

Needless to say, certain reps from Autodesk were very anti-Revit, referring to it as a toy, a joke, not suitable for documentation, far inferior to ADT etc etc. I can only put that down to the absolute terror these people must feel to see a software package that has the capability to put them out of a job.

I have been using Revit for about 12 months, since V5.1, and I love it. I used AutoCAD for nearly 10 years solid, and consider myself an expert at it, but NEVER as long as I can help it, will I EVER go back. Conceptual work, design development, documentation, scheduling, rendering - there are lots of packages that do a single facet of Architecture well, there are some that try to do a lot of those facets, but poorly - Revit really shines in all of them.

If anyone says Revit is only for small stuff, I can assure you that the 17-storey residential tower I am documenting at the moment is progressing very smoothly, and that the 35 Hectare sites with 1,450 apartments that I was working on a mere 2 WEEKS after I started using Revit are now in the first stages of construction.

If there is one thing I can say for Revit, it is that Revit lets you focus on ARCHITECTURE, not on whether you drew the lines for the cupboard doors as BYLAYER instead of BYBLOCK and what were the names of that block again? oh yeah, CBDD-FRED02 and they should be linetype ISO2231-444Q but only in drawings with a viewscale of .00005, otherwise they should be linetype ISO2231-434P except in drawing DQ223-9.dwg... you get the picture!

Cheers,

Adrian

[Wes Macaulay]

If there is one thing I can say for Revit, it is that Revit lets you focus on ARCHITECTURE, not on whether you drew the lines for the cupboard doors as blah, blah, blah...
Exactly. You have to join the cult to get to use The Other Program well!

[Jit]

My 2 cents

het it goes

I bought (ADT 3.0 Architectural Desktop version 3.0) when it was first realeased, it was thew only Architectural Programme without a floor and a ceiling etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

Then my rep mention that there was light at the end of the tunnel because 3.3 is coming out

Needless to say that I am very very very happy with Revit. I just dont think Autocad was ever written to do what Revit is doing by default - and thats the plain and simple fact.

[Kirky]

The best thing about ADT is size of the box it comes in, makes a good door stop. No................. its not very good even at that :lol:

[JFW271919]

Well...I have to say that with all these comments and so far not a single Con about Revit I believe that I have swayed the players in my firm to get the demo and have a Rep from Atlanta come down and talk to us personally. I believe that this is the way to go and if we plan on calling ourselves a progressive firm I think that we need to stay on top of the tech curve and continue to use the resources that are out there. I cant wait to try the Demo and see what I can pull together. I have been the Director of Cad and Tech. in 3 different firms so far as well as a Senior Project Manager. So, I see the benifits of having such a program from both my positions. Thanks to everyone that has replied and given advice.

Jim Wubbena
Savannah, Ga. :D :D

[hand471037]

Who's the rep from Alanta? I met a great Revit guy at the 2005 ADT Boot Camp who's based out of there, very knowlegeable about Revit. I hope that's who it is, and if it's not, I'll put you in touch with him. Think his last name was Jackson but I could be wrong... I'll hunt down his business card...

Found it! His name is James Jackson, and his phone number is 404-870-6614. If that's not who is stopping by, you might wanna give him a call!

[SkiSouth]

2005 ADT Boot Camp

Boot Camp - Does not sound like fun- But I guess Boot Camp is not suppose to be fun :P

[hand471037]

It was a reseller thing to get up to speed with the 2005 product (and Revit 6) before they ship to everyone. It was fun, and informitive, if only to really drill home the fact that I never wanna use ADT for anything. ;-)

but I kid. Anyways, some of the new features in ADT & Autocad 2005, that were taken from Revit (more or less) are cool, but just another layer of complexity and something else to worry about going wrong.

My wife is a professional photographer & graphic designer. She just got a really fancy digital camera and flash. When you rotate the flash (to bounce it off the ceiling or something) or change a lens the camera instantly adjusts for that for it's aware of where the flash is pointing and what kind of lens is on the camera all the time. It's very very cool. Anyways, she was saying something like 'it's great that this new camera is smarter than me, for now I only have to pay attention to getting great images'. And it totally occured to me that this is the same with Revit and me and my work. :) Sure you can use a pinhole camera for a certain 'effect' or a fancy non-auto camera where you have to set up and maintain everything for every shot. And if you're going for a certain effect, or have certain special needs, or have the time to spend monkeying around with all the settings (and changing them constantly) then it's a workable solution. But if your job is to take great photos quickly, you'd be a fool to think that anything but a fully automated and modern professional camera is a viable solution- esp. since such cameras are now available.

[ivsim]

Just to add another software to the number some of you might have had the chance to deal with....Nemetschek's Allplan FT ( appears to be more well-known and widespred in the EU than in the US )...has anyone had the chance to "allplan" something?

I myself am an ADT user and have heard only good things about Allplan as I have about Revit. Now, with Revit's 60-day trial already installed on my PC, I am still wondering whether an Allplan trial might have been a better idea.

[hand471037]

There are two things that (as far as I know) Revit has that no other BIM systems has, and these two things make a *immense* difference (and in my opinion make it the only viable BIM system):

1. Everything is Bi-directional. So I can change anything, anywhere, and have that update everything else without my intervention. I can't stress how important this is, for all the other systems require some level of user interaction or management to have the changes propagate throughout the set, and/or vastly limit you in where you can make changes...

2. Revit, because of the Family structure and pre-wired Categories, makes it trivial to create new custom content. Without the ability to make custom content quickly for your office, I believe any BIM or Automated Object CAD system will (for the most part) fail, for it will require a such large overhead and a dedicated user/CAD manager/team to make the custom content and to manage it that any benefit in using the system is lost. Hence why ADT hasn't caught on like it should have, and why most Offices are just using it like AutoCAD. If the system requires everyone to be an expert user to work efficiently, and if your office *isn't* made up of expert users, then you're setting yourself up for a fall. If the system is too hard to make content for and to manage, that system won't gain adoption very quickly. I mean, ArchiCAD, which I happen to think is pretty good at certain things, has been out for as long as AutoCAD and still has a rather small user base, all things considered, and I think this has to do with the level of difficulty it had in the past with making custom content and Plotting and such. With Revit, I don't need a CAD Manager; any Revit-savvy person on the project team can make custom content for a job. And with Revit, once I have that content, it becomes a 'kit of parts' for the others within the office. Revit really 'flattens' out the bell curve of CAD ability within the office, and everyone can participate, not just the experts, so your whole office benefits from everyone's knowledge and ability...

So, while I haven't see Allplan (and have heard similar great things about it) I would stress to you that ANY automated CAD software you're looking at to pay very close attention to how it forces/limits you to work, and how hard it is to make custom content for and manage. That's where the *true* efficiently of any of the systems is, and is why I feel that Revit is the best solution right now- I can work however I want, make changes anywhere, and create custom intelligent content very quickly- and I don't have to worry about 'managing' the system. That translates into real value, because it saves me time and makes me able to focus more on what I'm working on than on the CAD system....

[hdjohnson]

I think what jeffrey said in point no. 1 about having the ability to change things and to have them update everywhere is on of the best things about Revit. We had to make last minute changes to a project and we were still able to make our deadline. We didn't have to worry about any thing.

[Wes Macaulay]

...I am still wondering whether an Allplan trial might have been a better idea.
Allplan is a hard but powerful piece of software. I've done a ton of CAD research over the years, and discounted Allplan pretty quickly because of the amount of training required (read: steep learning curve), and the fact that it isn't used much in North America, and if my failing memory serves correct it's kinda like Arris, in that the building model resides in a host of little files the program makes, so you have to be careful about what happens to all the files.

Between the North American user base of Revit (which is no doubt growing fast) and this great forum, if you are in North America, Allplan is not a great choice... in my opinion anyway.

[cogen]

Two of the most productive Revit features for me are the automatic updating of schedules, and automated detail and sheet number generation/updating. One of most arduous tasks has been drawing coordination - sometimes you'd avoid moving details (even if the set would read better) to cut down on coordination time. BUT, when you talk about automatic 3D/section/elevation/callout generation, built-in render capabilities, seamless .dwg export, etc., (just to name a few features) why would anyone even consider using another program?

[BomberAIA]

I've been on Autocad since 1985 w/ AEC. It did not work then and it does'nt work now in its ADT form. I tried to produce a multifamily project in ADT a few years ago. Well, lets just say I could have hand drawn it quicker. I have been on Revit since it was introduced in Philly at the AIA convention. Not since R4 could you produce CD's w/ it. Revit is amazing now that it's grown up. I produce 100% of my CD's in Revit. The more I use it, the more I love it. What I really love about it, is the open forums where you can discuss your problems or solutions..........as this one, Zoogdesign. Can you talk to a ADT person about anything? Only your dealer who are all brain dead. In this forum you are talking to architects that are using the product. Finally, after all these years, we have a product that is designed for architects and supported by the company and the community. Thank you Revit & Zoogdesign.

[cogen]

Finally, after all these years, we have a product that is designed for architects and supported by the company and the community. Thank you Revit & Zoogdesign.

On the above note, I think it's outstanding (and almost unbelievable) that the Revit tech support people are architects (as in RA's) - very impressive!

[JFW271919]

well....We are finially having a Webcast Demo from Reproproducts in Atlanta. When I was in Atlanta I had delt with them in updating the firm I was in at that time. They are big Revit fans and even offer the training for it if needed. So, they are gearing us up for a live demo over the internet combined with a conf. call so our entire firm can check it out in action and ask questions. They have even offered to work with one of our projects for the demo. Finally a Rep that sounds like the know what they are talking about........These smaller Reps that are not up to speed should be mandated to take a course and open their eyes. Thanks to everyone for the great information!!!!

Jim Wubbena
:D :D :D

[Beth Powell]

I always enjoy reading these types of threads.

I am new "on the other side of the table" in the reseller arena. I also feel like an endangered species. I had my first boot camp right before 2005 was released and met some of the other resellers and I'm ashamed at many of them.

I handle the AEC portion in SW VA and the firms I deal with are mainly small firms. I have played with Revit on my own and attended some training at AU on my own. I just returned from three days of training at an Adesk facility and now have to return to the world of painful ADT clients.

I am hosting a free Revit seminar in July for anyone that wants to spend a day with some hands on trianing. The attendees so far are people that are fed up with the difficulty of ADT.

The biggest opstacle I see in people using Revit are "wives tales" about the product. I consider it my personal duty to do everything in my power to give anyone that asks the RIGHT answers. I'm glad to hear that I'm not totally alone in this endeavor.

I do want to do some more exercises with exchanging .dwg files both ways to gain a comfort level. The Adesk person I spoke with didn't make it sound as smooth as those who have posted here and I'm more likely to believe AUGI/Zoog members than anything Adesk tells me.

What happens if you send out .dwg files to a firm that makes changes and sends those files back to you? If you bring them back into Revit they are not going to be true Revit files. I would agree that the best scenario is for all to use Revit, but since that doesn't happen, I want to hear more about .dwg exchange to stomp out the myths.

Revit is my favorite product and I've been an ACAD user and AUGI member and volunteer for over 10 years now. Wish I could devote all my time to Revit!

Beth

[hand471037]

What happens if you send out .dwg files to a firm that makes changes and sends those files back to you? If you bring them back into Revit they are not going to be true Revit files. I would agree that the best scenario is for all to use Revit, but since that doesn't happen, I want to hear more about .dwg exchange to stomp out the myths.

Well, this I think is always a misunderstood issue. As a Revit user, I can import, export, and link (x-ref) DWG's. However I wouldn't every really work in DWG. Here's (what I feel) is a more realistic outline of how a Revit user would work with others:

If I'm on Revit, and my consultant is on Revit, and we are sharing in the design work, then I would probably link their Revit file into mine. This would be no different than if we were both on AutoCAD.

If I'm on Revit, and my consultant is on AutoCAD, and we are sharing in the design work, then I would export DWG's from time to time of my work for them to x-ref, and would in turn x-ref their work into my plans. Yes, it wouldn't be in 3D, wouldn't be BIM, but for many consultants it wouldn't matter so much- like if someone was laying out and ordering Office Cubicles or simple Plumbing. It would be up to them to make the equiptment schedules and to coordinate the info. So it would still be not very different than if I was working in AutoCAD. I could put their work on my titleblock, I could even key their details into my set, even though it's all just DWG.

If I'm on Revit, and my consultant is on ADT/ABS, then things get to be more of a problem. This is because my 3D info will only become a polyface mesh in there system (meaning for intelligence they will have to redraw some stuff), and I'll only be able to see some of their 3D info. So either you would just export to 2D both ways, as if both of us were using plain AutoCAD, or you would have to investigate something like Navvisworks.

If I'm on Revit, and my *client* is on AutoCAD (and I'm the consultant) I would do as much as I could inside of Revit and export to DWG. Then if quick changes needed to be made, or if changes to info I didn't generate (other's DWG's) needed to be edited, then I would just use AutoCAD (hense why they sell the 'bundle'). I could bring the DWG into Revit, explode it, and edit it, and then re-export it if I had to- but it would probably be faster to just edit it in AutoCAD.

So, if I'm a firm that has to use DWG's from consultants, but isn't really needing to change them much (which is a vast majority of the market, I beleve), then I could just use Revit alone and be happy. If I'm in a position where I have to be able to edit DWG files daily, then Revit Series would be the better choice. But it's not because of compatability, it's because of workflow, if you understand what I mean.

Also, consiter this: the last several months I was at my last firm, I was drawing *all* my details within Revit, and exporting them back to AutoCAD for the projects that were being done on AutoCAD, because I found it faster to detail in Revit and the exporting was flawless. Also we x-refed tons of DWG's into Revit for facilities mangement work all the time. And other than a bug in 5.1, it was pretty smooth overall.

So the two worlds are really easy to move between, and it's easy for the two systems to talk to each other- but it is really two worlds. Revit's job isn't to edit DWG files, so arguing that it's not a viable solution because of that is missing the point. No one argues that Inventor is a bad platform because it can't edit DWGs, and no one argues that Word is a terrible way to edit Spreadsheets.

[Beth Powell]

I do agree that Revit details nicely. That is one myth that I've busted. I've heard several clients say that they looked at Revit at some point and didn't like it because it didn't detail. That's a bunch of hooey!

[hand471037]

I think the misconception comes from the fact that Revit doesn't have a built-in Detail Manager- like ADT's or something like the Design Center.

In terms of Detail Generation, Revit is every bit as robust as AutoCAD, and I feel is much easyer to get better results out of (one thing I hear, over and over, from our Revit cleints is how much they love the way the drawings look- the graphic quality is fantastic!).

In terms of Detail Mangement (i.e. finding the details you need, and inserting them into your project), you can use Revit's native Groups and such, but there isn't currently a dedicated tool to the task.

So I think people hear that Revit doesn't have the same Detailer that ADT does, and that it doesn't have a Detail Management tool, and because they know nothing about Revit, think therefore that Revit is 'bad' at detailing, which is quite far from the truth. ;-)

[Beth Powell]

Which if you think about it is very silly as I don't have any clients using the detailer. They just have lines and such in a basic 2D ACAD dwg.

Whichever product you use, you should use it to the max and get the most out of your investment.

Thanks for all the good info.

[davidwlight]

Like a number of you in this forum I sit on both sides of the fence. I work for a reseller helping to train, demo & generally talk up the whole Revit thing. I also work for a firm of architects actually using Revit. The reseller that told you Revit is **** should be shoot! I'm not going to go on about why Revit is better than ADT etc. because most people who have commented on this thread have provided you with more than enough plus points. My only comment is there seems to be a lot of Adsk resellers world wide who have Revit in there portfolio but haven't got a clue what they are selling. Find a good dealer who has the knowledge of the design / building process, an understanding of what Revit can do for you, its ease of use, business benefits, ROI & you won't look back.

[gmak]

I wrote this in reply to another thread, but it applies here as well:

My 2 pence worth...(as a Revit user for only around 2 months)

... I was a microstation user for years, but finally got sick of messing about trying to get compatibility with consultants who all seemed to use Autocad based products. I know Microstation V8 is (supposed to be) directly compatible with DWG, but in practice I was finding the compatibility a bit hit & miss. So, I made the jump to Autocad.
Got myself a subscription and license for ADT 2004.
Did some training and dove in to using it in production.

As a small (one man) practice, production time vs. design time is very important to me. While I found that I could crank out 2D work pretty quickly (much as I did when I used Microstation), but this sort of defeats the purpose of having ADT. In using ADT for BIM, I was finding that I was having to do things the way that ADT would allow me rather than the way that I wanted them. I can only assume that this is in some way due to the mechanical legacy of Autocad. However, I perservered and spent weeks trying to get wall joins working, figuring out the arcane way in which to create wall types, etc. I thought I was getting the hang of things.

When they released ADT 2005, I got my subscription upgrade and was pretty excited about the new features (like sheet sets). However, I also noted that Autodesk had released a new version of Revit. So, I got my distributor to send me a demo CD and I began to look at what Revit had to offer.

Wow!!!

As a test, I decided to try to port an ongoing project from ADT into Revit. What had taken me weeks to do in ADT, I did in a weekend with Revit. I haven't looked back. I called my distributor and had them change my subscription from ADT to Revit (this is one of the benefits of the whole Subscription system).

Having used both products as a relative newcomer (which many of you will know from some of the silly questions I've been asking over the last few weeks), I have to say that Revit is far more effective as an architectural tool. Where ADT forces you to do things its way, Revit does things in (what seems to me) a logical way. In ADT you are building a computer model which you'll treat as a building, in Revit you are building a building which is in the form of a computer model. (Does that make any sense?)

Clearly the two products are approaching things from very different directions, but there are also some very fundamental differences that make Revit more useful and practical. To me (so far) these are:

Automatic updates throughout the project. ADT doesn't do this automatically, you have to regenerate sections, etc. In Revit it just happens; there is no need to worry that your information is not fully up-to-date.
Creating new elements (families). The way you make things for use in your project is like making them in reality with Revit. In ADT it seemed more like you were programming.
The Sheet Set tools in ADT were impressive, but too complex. As was the Project Navigator. Both seem to be simply another way of viewing XREFs and Paperspace. The Revit interface is simple. clear and concise.
Yes, I can already see things in Revit that I wish were better, and things that I wish were in there. The spline tools need some serious improvement and 3-d sweeps along 3d paths would be a big improvement. We could all come up with a long list. But, I found the same problems (and more) in ADT.

I can see where a firm with a long legacy of Autocad would need something like ADT in order to maintain backwards compatibility and avoid roll-out costs in changing software platforms. However, for companies making the switch to BIM or from other products Revit is simply the best solution.