Demolition Plan

[Scott D Davis]

I'm having an issue with demolition plans. Hoping to see how others have dealt with this.

1. Have an Existing Floor Plan, Phase Existing, all objects Existing
2. Have a Demolition Plan (to show the Contractor what to demolish), Phase New Construction, some Exisitng elements "Demo'd"

When I have two adjacent Existing Rooms, and I want to demolish the common wall between two existing rooms to make a new large room, the Room Tag on the Demolition Plan shows the New Room Name/Number.

This isn't right, because when the demo contractor looks at the plan to figure out what he needs to demo, he needs to see the EXISTING room names/numbers, so he knows what EXISTING room to walk into and start tearing stuff down. The NEW rooms obviously haven't been constructed yet, so showing the New room name in the Demo Plan does me no good.

Anyone else have a solution? I can overlay plans on a sheet, but that seems so un-Revit like.

I'm thinking it would be nice if Room Tags had a Phase Setting, so you could "tell' the tag what Phase you want it to display....wishlist?

[patricks]

ahhh yes, room tags are indeed tied to phases. However the kicker is that you can't show an existing plan as "existing" (new phase with previous + demo filter) and still have both the old and new room tags.

Here's what I just did in a blank project.

Drew walls to create 2 rooms. I set up one floor plan view and set the phase to existing. I set the other plan to phase New. Then in the existing plan I put a room tag in each room. Then in the new plan, I demolished the interior wall, and then put a room tag to the new entire room, and it did indeed let me call it something different, with no "redundant room" or similar errors like that.

But, to show the existing plan as existing with the interior wall demolished, I'm not sure how to do that... unless maybe you put an intermediate phase between your existing and new construction phases.... hmm couldn't get it to work with an intermediate phase either, that is, showing both the demolished wall and the existing room tags, it gives me a redundant room error. Perhaps you could use an intermediate phase, and only show the room tags on the existing plan, then not show any room tags on the demo plan, but have the demo plan set to the intermediate phase. That way the demolished items would actually be demolished on the intermediate phase, and already gone on the new phase.

[dbaldacchino]

I haven't had the chance to play with phasing in detail when it comes to room tags, but I know I'll have to in the future. One thought though....could you use Design Options to try handle the room tag problem?

[sbrown]

You are leaving out a critical phase. Demo phase, Don't set your view to new construction for your demo plans, create a whole sep. phase between exist. and new for your demo work.

[Scott D Davis]

Even if I create a Demo Phase, when I demo a common wall between two spaces, the resulting Room Tag in Demo Phase will read the entire "new" space, not the original "existing" spaces.

[sbrown]

I see, because there is now no wall there to be room bounding. I guess this is a Needs to be addressed by the factory issue.

[archjake]

Maybe its because I don't work on monster (Except maybe that gila monster) sized projects, but I don't think I've ever had room tags in a demo plan.

[muttlieb]

Could you use room seperation lines to restore the room boundary?

Use a demo phase. Create the room seperation line in the demo phase and demolish it in the new construction phase. The wall being demolished is created in the existing phase and demo'd in the demo phase. Individual room tags remain in the existing and demo plans for the corresponding rooms but in the new phase you can tag the remaining single new room.

[Scott D Davis]

hmmmm...didn't realized Room Separation lines could be Phased....AND "demolished".....interesting! I'm gonna have to try that tomorrow at the office.

[bowlingbrad]

Create a duplicate of the existing view with just the room tags visible. Then place both the demo plan view and the existing tags view over each other.

[patricks]

Normally you should not have to use a "demo" phase. We had a guy who used to work at our office who didn't really grasp Revit very well, and he put a demo phase on some projects he worked on and it screwed everything up really bad as far as graphics and what showed in which views, etc.

Demolition is not a phase. It's something that occurs during a construction phase. You have a building that was completed at some prior date, and when new construction begins, there is demolition that takes place. The demolished components were created at some prior point (Existing) and are demolished during the current construction phase.

Scott, to keep things more simple and less confusing, I would keep phases to only Existing and New Construction, and try using the Room Separation lines and phasing those.

[muttlieb]

Scott, to keep things more simple and less confusing, I would keep phases to only Existing and New Construction, and try using the Room Separation lines and phasing those.
It's just a workaround to achieve the results Scott is after. And I think he'll need the demo phase to make it work. One extra phase is not too confusing, is it?

[Scott D Davis]

Thanks guys, we have a solution that will work, but it does involve placing room separation lines over walls, and demo'ing the wall and the separation line in a different phase from each other. It works, but seems to be extra work to draw what amounts to two objects, on on the top of the other, just to get it to work.

Two plans overlayed also works, as I said we could do in my first post.

[bowlingbrad]

Two plans overlayed also works, as I said we could do in my first post.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Duh

[sbrown]

Its funny you say don't have a demo phase. I only hear of problems with phasing when there isn't a demo phase. I've allways had it as a sep. phase and it works very smooth for me. From a contractors perspective the there is a demo phase and there are additional requirements during that time. shoring, etc.

[patricks]

well, to each their own I guess. To me I've always seen Demolition in Revit as a tool, or an action, not a phase. Objects are created and demolished on varying phases, not necessarily on an actual Demo phase. But that's just me.

[sbrown]

If it works for your documentation I agree, I'm not saying my way works for everyone. I do a lot of training and I've seen a lot of confusion with phases. this makes it simple, you don't have any confusion on which walls are existing, demo or new, if the work for each is done in sep. phases.

[Steve_Stafford]

...I can overlay plans on a sheet, but that seems so un-Revit like...Why is that something so easy is bad or un-Revit like? I've never understood the automatic bias against overlaying views. :sad:

Then again, maybe "fake" tags would have sufficed? But then that's un-Revit like too :smile:

Fwiw, in Patricks defense, the intended phase workflow does not include a separate demo phase. The act of demolishing an object is enough with just the two phases. This is how the tutorials take people through the feature.

[iru69]

Why is that something so easy is bad or un-Revit like? I've never understood the automatic bias against overlaying views.
I agree with the gist of your first point... however the problem I have with overlaying views is that you can't view and easily edit overlayed views at the same time - you have to set them up on a sheet first to see what they'll look like. You can't easily make duplicate views of overlayed views. And then if you want to make changes, you have to switch back and forth between views (or switch between activating and deactivating views on the sheet). Sorry, but it's a PITA, and dare I say it, un-Revit-like (or maybe unfortunately becoming the very definition of Revit-like: anything that uses work-arounds). But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[muttlieb]

Fwiw, in Patricks defense, the intended phase workflow does not include a separate demo phase. The act of demolishing an object is enough with just the two phases. This is how the tutorials take people through the feature.
Yeah, but that doesn't help Scott with his issue. All of the solutions are workarounds and un-Revit-like. But adding a demo phase seems to achieve the most Revit-like results. So what if it's not the intended workflow? I thought it was a creative solution, if I do say so myself. ;)

[jamesd10181097]

The reason a seprate demo phase soes not work is the portion of wall that gets automatically demolished when you place a new door in an existing wall. If you place this new door in the new construction phase the portion of wall that is demolished is in the DEMO phase and therefor does not show up as demolished on the demo plan.

[cphubb]

We also do not use a Demo phase because we ended up with a bunch of temporary items in that phase. I also required us to create a bunch of useless views just to see the demo phase correctly. We use the room separation method and understood that was how Revit intended the system to work.

[twiceroadsfool]

We do not use a Demo phase, and demo works wonderfully.... Except with Section Markers!

The same thing happens: In an Existing Phase, we will draw a Demolition section (as we do not want teh marker to show up in the New Construction work), and then in the new construction plans, we will draw our New Work Buildign Sections.

BUT, because the View setup for the demo plans is technicall Phase = New Construction, Show Previous and Demo, as get ALL the markers... Including the new construction ones. With the new feasibility of hiding them all at once, its not terrible, but it would be nice to have them now show up until the New Construction new work was shown.

But having a seperate Demo phase.... Ugh, i wouldnt want to be overseeing that model...

[dbaldacchino]

I've learned a lot about phasing since my last post :) Really, it doesn't matter whether you create a new phase or not. A phase is nothing more than a period of time over which some work is done. It could be as little as screwing all the drywall to studs or as large as demo and new construction simultaneously. It's up to the user to define the level of detail/scope they want each phase to cover.

We recently needed to show a plan with temporary walls and a demo plan that shows both existing walls to be demo'd and the temporary walls to b demo'd. To find a solution and explain it to the team, I worked up a little example file which I'm posting here. And yes, there's nothing wrong with overlaying views on sheets! sometimes it's the only way and you can easily activate one of the views to work on while still seeing the other overlayed view for reference.