No Beta posts/threads

[Steve_Stafford]

Here we are approaching a beta cycle again. This serves as a reminder that posts here regarding this subject aren't permitted since they violate the agreements participants must acknowledge to be part of the program.

We know this isn't a popular stance but it is necessary, sorry.

We can talk about beta programs all we want, we just can't comment on what we see and experience while using an actual product in beta while participating in that program. Nor can we discuss that we are participating, technically.

[iru69]

If Autodesk sends me an email invitation to their beta program, that's a public acknowledgment that the Beta program exists and Autodesk can not unilaterally bind me to an NDA unless I agree to it. I don't believe I've agreed to an NDA until I hit the little agreement button on whatever web page you go to to download the beta software, etc.

As usual, I will not be participating in the beta program for the simple reason that I choose not to participate in any program that encourages such nonsense as deleting posts simply because they mention they received an email invitation to participate in a beta program. It badly reflects on this forum and on Autodesk in general.

[GuyR]

What about V10 ;-) If we see that feature X isn't in V9 and we post a new wishlist item about feature X it'll be fairly obvious that X isn't in V9. So can't we post on to the wishlist either?

Guy

[beegee]

Of course you can post a wish at any time.

It would not be appropriate however, in the wish post , to mention that the requested feature does not appear in 9 beta. Besides that, features may appear in the final release of 9, which were not in beta ( and visa -versa )


What about V10 ;-) If we see that feature X isn't in V9 and we post a new wishlist item about feature X it'll be fairly obvious that X isn't in V9. So can't we post on to the wishlist either?

Guy

[Scott D Davis]

If Autodesk sends me an email invitation to their beta program, that's a public acknowledgment that the Beta program exists
How is sending an "individual" an email suddenly "Public Acknowlegdement"?

In order to be considered for any Autodesk Beta, you must first go to the Autodesk MyFeedback Portal Site, and sign up to be considered for Beta Testing. By signing up on this site, you will then receive e-mails inviting you to participate if the Betas are available, AND if you have been chosen to participate.

In order to get an email about a Beta, you must first have signed up. By signing up, you agree to not discuss beta programs. When you sign up and hit the submit button, you have "hit the little agreement button".

Negative attitudes about Autodesk and their policies are what reflect badly on this forum.

[iru69]

How is sending an "individual" an email suddenly "Public Acknowlegdement"?
It's public acknowledgement because they've sent an individual an email notification of the beta program. Since I have not agreed to an NDA in order to receive the email, I am under no restrictions to publicly acknowledge that I have received such an email.


In order to get an email about a Beta, you must first have signed up. By signing up, you agree to not discuss beta programs. When you sign up and hit the submit button, you have "hit the little agreement button".
That doesn't appear to be the case. You go to the site, enter in a bunch of information and select the submit button. I was at no time, that I'm aware of, presented with an NDA indicating that if I were to receive an email from Autodesk inviting me to participate in the Revit 9 beta program, that I was not allowed to publicly disclose receiving it.


Negative attitudes about Autodesk and their policies are what reflect badly on this forum.
That's really pathetic.

Here *is* what's posted under a "news" item on the site:


Confidentiality of Beta and Feedback Projects
Please no posting of beta details, questions, rumors, or support requests in the public and that includes public web sites, or public discussion groups. There is a very important requirement to keep betas private and only discussed in these private forums or with Autodesk employees."
While I disagree that Autodesk beta software should be confined under an NDA, I respect that Autodesk is generally allowed to make the rules for the use of their beta software, and as such, this forum needs to follow along. However, agreeing to be *invited* to participate in such a beta does not mean agreeing to the terms of actively participating in the beta (i.e. downloading the software and logging into the beta forums). While I have confidence that the moderators are using their best judgement, it is my opinion that some of the AUGI moderators have overstepped the bounds of the intent of confidentiality by erasing a post that simply stated that they had received an email from Autodesk inviting them to participate in the Revit 9 beta program.

[rookwood]

Fortunately, I have been 'invited' to participate in various Beta programs and, unless they are distributed as Public Betas, I don't understand why anyone would have an issue with the NDA.

Personally, I look at it as being an active participant with the company R&D team. As such, and contrary to what many may want to believe, R&D is not, nor should it be, public domain territory. Could you imagine an organization not having controls for keeping information behind those 'closed' doors? For one thing, your competition would have a field day. Not to mention the many misconceptions published by those not involved. Just look at the flak Microsoft receives when it releases Public Betas for its software. Most people are down on VISTA, and it is several months from being made available. Apparently Autodesk is comfortable with the fact that it can gather enough information from a selective group of testers and not offer Public Betas.

To hit on this forum and Autodesk for keeping tight and well managed controls on any and all conversation regarding beta testing is petty and sounds like sour apples. I don't know that I agree with Scott that your opinion is necessarily a bad attitude as much as I believe your perception of Beta Testing is ill conceived. Also, to assume that an e-mail sent to you or me is in any way public or implies a public acknowledgment is erroneous.

You betcha Autodesk can make the rules. While in Rome.....

[Joef]

How about if I state that I did not receive an invitation? Is that allowed? I signed up for the Beta and did not receive an invitation. There. I said it. I feel better now.

Joe

[BWG]

If the competition wanted it, it would be easy for them to get it. Just buy a seat and sign up. Once you are in, then have your field day. As long as they didn't know your were with xyz cad company, then the whole process has been compromised.

[Scott D Davis]

That doesn't appear to be the case. You go to the site, enter in a bunch of information and select the submit button. I was at no time, that I'm aware of, presented with an NDA indicating that if I were to receive an email from Autodesk inviting me to participate in the Revit 9 beta program, that I was not allowed to publicly disclose receiving it.

Here's the NDA (http://myfeedback.autodesk.com/images/BETA%20SITE%20LICENSE%20AGREEMENT.pdf) you agreed to by signing up to be a Participant in the program, which in turn lead you to receive an email inviting you to participate.

[John Anderson]

Without reading through the Agreement, the following seems obvious:

1. There is no way that you are going to be able to keep it secret when invitations for Revit Betas are emailed. This thread making that case.

2. It is in Autodesks interrest that the release of invitations to the beta be public knowledge so that those who are unaware, or inadvertantly did not receive an invitation can take steps to correct the matter.

[muttlieb]

Here's the NDA (http://myfeedback.autodesk.com/images/BETA%20SITE%20LICENSE%20AGREEMENT.pdf) you agreed to by signing up to be a Participant in the program, which in turn lead you to receive an email inviting you to participate.
I think you've got that a bit backwards there, Scott. The initial email invitation goes out before any NDA is agreed to. As a Revit subscription owner, I am prequalified to participate in beta programs. In order to alert subscription owners of beta programs, Autodesk sends out an email invitation with details on how to participate in the beta. Still no NDA presented at this point. If you get the email and want to participate, you go to the MyFeedback portal and enroll. Still no NDA. If you are approved to participate and choose to participate, THEN you are presented with the NDA that you must agree to in order to participate. Of course, once you agree to the NDA, you may not acknowledge that you are participating in the beta. As a moderator of this forum, I'd think you would have a better understanding of this.

[Scott D Davis]

As a moderator of this forum, I'd think you would have a better understanding of this.
Thanks to your kind consideration, now I do.

[Lashers]

I really can't see what the big deal is over NDA's! It (Beta) is just a scientific control to field test the software before going live, if you want to be involved then there are rules to abide by! How hard is that! Beta's are such a short cycle that unless you are REALLY interested in getting a first look, or, actually helping to identify areas where there are problems it should not be such a torture to wait a few weeks longer to get the final version.

I do know that if there were no NDA that all the rival software companies or their friends MIGHT be hmmm careful . . tempted to malign the release before it even has a chance! Therefore I can see good reason to have some rules . .

Amen

[Prodev75]

If someone is wanting something and you keep telling them "Its coming It's coming! As soon as they get it they want to spread the joy. With all the talk about beta test I've seen on this forum how could you guys (moderators) have not seen this one coming. And I'm not saying anyone he was right or wrong for deleting the post. The actually rules are kind of hazy in this area.

BUT!

I do remember someone mentioning that if you do receive a beta invite you can not mention you received it. I think it was ....no no not him..[thinking]...maybe it was...Heck well maybe it was my own assumption. Darning where did i see that post. Well if someone did say that, it should be posted in the offical rules area somewhere. Correct?



.......... if you want to be involved then there are rules to abide by! How hard is that!


obviously very hard for some

[Bill McLees]

As an architect (which I assume virtually all of us are), I operate under an understood NDA with every client. Even public agencies expect their plans to remain under wraps until they're ready for some type of announcement.

The irony is that almost always after the client requests that I keep my mouth shut, someone else calls me on the phone with more knowledge about the project than I have. At least, they didn't hear it from me!

Anyway, the Autodesk situation is like that. We're all being asked not to discuss something that everyone seems to know already. Fine with me. I do it (actually, refrain from doing it) all the time.

[mlgatzke]

Communication black-outs are not by Autodesk's choice. This is a requirement of the FTC (U.S. Federal Trade Commission) because Autodesk is a publicly traded company. There are those that say, "Aw, that's not fair." All I can say is, "Welcome to the real world." The FTC requires NDAs for testing of upcoming products for publicly traded companies because it influences stock trading and therefore stock prices. It's just the price of doing business. Don't like it? Don't worry, you'll get over it.

I'm not trying to be harsh or tell anyone that they're wrong for expressing their view. I'm just writing reality before this turns into a pick-on-Autodesk thread for something they have absolutely no control over.

Let the "flames" begin.

[iru69]

Communication black-outs are not by Autodesk's choice. This is a requirement of the FTC (U.S. Federal Trade Commission) because Autodesk is a publicly traded company. There are those that say, "Aw, that's not fair." All I can say is, "Welcome to the real world." The FTC requires NDAs for testing of upcoming products for publicly traded companies because it influences stock trading and therefore stock prices. It's just the price of doing business. Don't like it? Don't worry, you'll get over it.

I'm not trying to be harsh or tell anyone that they're wrong for expressing their view. I'm just writing reality before this turns into a pick-on-Autodesk thread for something they have absolutely no control over.

Let the "flames" begin.

I'm not trying to be harsh Mike, but you don't strike me as a man who's much for sentimentality - so I am telling you that you're flat out wrong about the whole shebang. We go over this every time there's a new release. I was taking bets with other forum members this morning on how long it would take for someone to trot out the old "FTC and wild stock fluctuations" argument for the umpteenth time. It's kind of like you've been relishing pulling it out again and wanted to be the first to mention the fallacy, but you kind of jumped the gun without really any provocation. Maybe next time we can just compile a list of past posts so we don't have to type this up all over again.

What's a bit ironic is that, so far, there's not a whole lot of bashing of Autodesk or the NDA in this thread - simply some heated and not so heated disagreement about what should be allowed to be discussed on this forum regarding the Revit beta. What's a bit frustrating is that so many of you miss that point. AUGI is allowed to make whatever rules it wants, but I will (I hope) continue to question those rules when the reasoning for them is misstated or misplaced.

Sometimes I really wonder if some of the users on this forum actively spread half-truths, misunderstandings and confusion in an effort to goad others to respond, soley for their own amusement. "Let the "flames" begin"? Does this really boil down to just a bunch of trolling?

[Scott Hopkins]

For those who haven't read it yet, take a look at Leonid Raiz's post regarding Autodesk Beta testing and SEC rules...

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=22373&page=1&highlight=beta

[aaronrumple]

Negative attitudes about Autodesk and their policies are what reflect badly on this forum.
Whoa there. Are you saying we should NOT express negative attitudes toward Autodesk on AUGI forums? While I do abide but NDA agreements, I don't recall signing anything that prohibits me from expressing displeasure with Autodesk.

[dsw98]

Excuse my ignorance for one minute, well okay for several minutes. I've been hearing Beta for years about many different types of programs. Can someone tell me what exactly Beta is and does? Thank you, I feel better now :-)

[Wanderer]

Excuse my ignorance for one minute, well okay for several minutes. I've been hearing Beta for years about many different types of programs. Can someone tell me what exactly Beta is and does? Thank you, I feel better now :-)beta is simply testing software before it's released to the public.
here's a link to the site where you can sign up to participate in autodesk's betas...
http://myfeedback.autodesk.com/

[Wanderer]

beta is simply testing software before it's released to the public.
here's a link to the site where you can sign up to participate in autodesk's betas...
http://myfeedback.autodesk.com/ ah, google is nice too-
define: beta testing (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-45%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=define%3A+beta+testing&btnG=Search)


Operational testing at a site not otherwise involved with the software developers.
www.testingstandards.co.uk/living_glossary.htm (http://www.testingstandards.co.uk/living_glossary.htm)
User testing of a completed information system using real data in the real user environment.
www.cbu.edu/~lschmitt/I351/glossary.htm (http://www.cbu.edu/~lschmitt/I351/glossary.htm)
The second-stage test-version of a newly developed piece of hardware and/or software, which is distributed free to a limited sample of users so that they can subject it to daily use and report any problems to the manufacturer. After the "bugs" are fixed, the final version of the program is released to the general public.
www.wrightcolorgraphics.com/b.htm (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=3&oi=define&q=http://www.wrightcolorgraphics.com/b.htm)

[Scott D Davis]

Whoa there. Are you saying we should NOT express negative attitudes toward Autodesk on AUGI forums? While I do abide but NDA agreements, I don't recall signing anything that prohibits me from expressing displeasure with Autodesk.

No, express all you want.....

[Simon.Whitbread]

No, express all you want.....
Negative comments - support is slow, sometimes I don't get replies for WEEKS.
Local support - don't / won't comment.
Product is annoying - SOMETIMES
Users are annoying - ALWAYS

I worked very hard to get the programme implemented and its going well, Revit is a great documentation tool, I wouldn't change it for anything

NDA
I don't think it matters if its a legal requirement or not. Its a required by Autodesk for those who wish to take part. If you don't like it or don't agree with NDA - take your business elsewhere. And then try and find another companies without NDA.

Off my soapbox now

[GuyR]

Negative comments - support is slow, sometimes I don't get replies for WEEKS.
US won't talk to us because we're nuclear free. Don't you read the National Party propaganda:-)


Local support - don't / won't comment.
Carefull you won't get any freebies ;-) I actually think this is as much a autodesk/reseller relationship problem. Can anyone tell me how Autodesk NZ adds anything to my Revit experience? Remove them from the loop!!


Product is annoying - SOMETIMES

Not enough development focus within Autodesk. Why are Autodesk adding 3D modelling to AutoCAD? If Revit is the future then spend those developer hours enhancing Revit so more AutoCAD users migrate. And we all know the reason this won't happen....


Users are annoying - ALWAYS

Add to that clients, public, politicians...


I don't think it matters if its a legal requirement or not. Its a required by Autodesk for those who wish to take part. If you don't like it or don't agree with NDA - take your business elsewhere. And then try and find another companies without NDA.

I can't see the big deal anyway. The big shareholders already know what's coming it's hardly news. We all know V9 is about detailing. And it's not a Beta. The Beta is what all the real Beta testers have been using since before Xmas. It's a Release Candidate more than a Beta so why not drip release functionality like the old days.... Microsoft do it all the time.

Guy

[Simon.Whitbread]

US won't talk to us because we're nuclear free. Don't you read the National Party propaganda:-) The main help centre is located somewhere in the centre of India. Their support, when forthcoming is good although I always get a an email saying someone will contact me within 2 hours - s******


Carefull you won't get any freebies...Remove them from the loop!! I'd much rather get good (no cancel that - the BEST) support than freebies anyday - As for the second part, most of the time a question gets fiddled with and then passed on to ADESK Support, so guess what I do?



Not enough development focus within Autodesk. Why are Autodesk adding 3D modelling to AutoCAD? If Revit is the future then spend those developer hours enhancing Revit so more AutoCAD users migrate. And we all know the reason this won't happen.... I guess thats something to do with the ** million current users. Hey, did anyone notice that Graphisoft now has a plugin for Sketchup - or am I slow?



Add to that clients, public, politicians... EVERYONE!



I can't see the big deal anyway. The big shareholders already know what's coming it's hardly news. We all know V9 is about detailing. And it's not a Beta. The Beta is what all the real Beta testers have been using since before Xmas. ...a. You're right it's not a big deal, but then Autodesk require it.
b. Do we?

[tc3dcad60731]

Hopefully my reputation will not get slammed by people for my taking such a strong stand, but here goes anyway!!!!

1. Steve Stafford was just trying to say that beta postings are not acceptable here and should be posted on the Autodesk Beta Site. It seems to me people have blown this out of proportion. The NDA that you agree to binds you to not discuss this with anyone outside of the beta group forums. Abide by it or be kicked off of the group!

2. The comment about "Public Knowledge" when a certain individual recieved an invitation via e-mail is a lame excuse for abusing the confidentiality of the e-mail. Just because you received an e-mail does not mean that it is public knowledge!

3. NO ONE is saying that we can or can not talk negatively about Autodesk in these forums. Goodness, I have posted a good bit about likes and dislikes with Autodesk products and resellers. All that is being asked is that we keep any comments about beta programs off of these forums. How hard is that to comply with?

I am not stating that I do or do not know anything about past, current, or future betas but if I did I would not be discussing it here in any form or fashion if I wanted to continue to do this type of work with Autodesk and for sure if I did not want to suffer punative damages from Autodesk for violating this agreement. Those are pretty firm and harsh guidelines!

So, like Steve said, lets just keep those comments and discussions on the appropriate boards. On these forums lets keep doing what we do best...... voice frustrations, concerns, elations, foolishness, and most importantly HELP!

As for me, Thank you AUGI and Autodesk for all of the opportunities to let my voice be heard many times!!! :-)

[jbalding48677]

Hopefully my reputation will not get slammed by people for my taking such a strong stand, but here goes anyway!!!!

1. Steve Stafford was just trying to say that beta postings are not acceptable here and should be posted on the Autodesk Beta Site. It seems to me people have blown this out of proportion. The NDA that you agree to binds you to not discuss this with anyone outside of the beta group forums. Abide by it or be kicked off of the group!

2. The comment about "Public Knowledge" when a certain individual recieved an invitation via e-mail is a lame excuse for abusing the confidentiality of the e-mail. Just because you received an e-mail does not mean that it is public knowledge!

3. NO ONE is saying that we can or can not talk negatively about Autodesk in these forums. Goodness, I have posted a good bit about likes and dislikes with Autodesk products and resellers. All that is being asked is that we keep any comments about beta programs off of these forums. How hard is that to comply with?

I am not stating that I do or do not know anything about past, current, or future betas but if I did I would not be discussing it here in any form or fashion if I wanted to continue to do this type of work with Autodesk and for sure if I did not want to suffer punative damages from Autodesk for violating this agreement. Those are pretty firm and harsh guidelines!

So, like Steve said, lets just keep those comments and discussions on the appropriate boards. On these forums lets keep doing what we do best...... voice frustrations, concerns, elations, foolishness, and most importantly HELP!

As for me, Thank you AUGI and Autodesk for all of the opportunities to let my voice be heard many times!!! :-)
Very well put, thank you Mr. tc3dcad. Very simply put, please abide by the requests of Autodesk when participating in the beta programs.

[kpaxton]

...And as Twiki said on Buck Rogers.....

"Beta...Beta...Beta, What's up Buck?"

:D

-K

[SkiSouth]

...And as Twiki said on Buck Rogers.....

"Beta...Beta...Beta, What's up Buck?"

:D

-K
Get some sleep. You've been up too long again...

[DaveP]

I just got an email from a reseller (not mine) announcing release dates for all the Autodesk 2007 products.
Kind of makes the "is there a beta" question moot, eh?

They've been known to jump the gun before, but I'd be happy to post the dates if I don't get a smack-down from our trusty moderators.

What say you, guys?

[BWG]

Don't know about all products, but Autocad 2007 can be announced as of this morning.

[Scott D Davis]

From what I can find out, ONLY AutoCAD 2007 can be talked about as of today. The embargo on Revit has not been lifted.

[rhys]

Well I recieved this from Autodesk this morning
"Coming soon to help you fully accelerate your ideas is the new family of Autodesk software—the most innovative, purpose-built and practical solutions to help you create, manage and share your digital assets. From the most widely used 2D CAD software for design, drafting, and detailing; to innovative 3D software for modeling and visualizing projects before they become reality; to practical lifecycle management tools, Autodesk's new portfolio of products will help you realize your ideas to compete and win."
The innovative 3D bits either REVIT or ....A@@

[Scott D Davis]

Update: The resellers have been cleared today to dicuss both AutoCAD 2007 and Revit 9.0. You may see some posts from resellers talking about the new tools in Revit 9.0. This is fine.

Please note, this does not mean that Beta discussions are allowed here. If you are on the BETA team and have Beta info, please refrain from discussing any of that here at AUGI, and keep those conversations confined to the Beta Discussion Group.

Thanks for your understanding!

[Max Lloyd]

Can I have my post back now then? ;)

[rhys]

Can I have my post back now then? ;)
Not until "the Illuminati" say so.

[Batman]

While the NDA applies to the Beta testing there are of course Version 9 items which will become public knowledge; I trust the Beta candidates / participants will not become so scared and instilled with fear that they simply don't discuss anything at all to do with " New ".

It's my belief that this forum should foster support through open discussion, not fear through threat. its possible that this post will frighten some out of providing proper open discussion simply because they may be participants in the Beta and thus not know what it is they can and cannot speak about.

Or does the NDA prohibit you to say anything at all regardless of public knowledge items?

[DanielleAnderson]

Just to lighten the mood a little bit... (http://www.aquarium-guides.com/images/aq-cartoon.gif)

Guess the grass is always greener for fish too...(by the way, these are supposed to be beta fish) ;)

[Wes Macaulay]

While the NDA applies to the Beta testing there are of course Version 9 items which will become public knowledge; I trust the Beta candidates / participants will not become so scared and instilled with fear that they simply don't discuss anything at all to do with " New ".

It's my belief that this forum should foster support through open discussion, not fear through threat. its possible that this post will frighten some out of providing proper open discussion simply because they may be participants in the Beta and thus not know what it is they can and cannot speak about.

Or does the NDA prohibit you to say anything at all regardless of public knowledge items?Any of the new features of 9 can be discussed; only the beta tester's experiences with the beta are under wraps...

[jobcaptain]

As was previously stated in this post, I posted the Revit Building 9 announcement in the "Out There" forum this morning. The information comes directly from Autodesk Marketing Department.

After almost 5 years of using and teaching Revit, my time with this release has me grinning...scary cool will stay intact!

Revit 9 and SketchUp - Sneak Peek (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=34922)

or just use the link in my signature below.

Cheers!

[neb1998]

It's public acknowledgement because they've sent an individual an email notification of the beta program. Since I have not agreed to an NDA in order to receive the email, I am under no restrictions to publicly acknowledge that I have received such an email.


That doesn't appear to be the case. You go to the site, enter in a bunch of information and select the submit button. I was at no time, that I'm aware of, presented with an NDA indicating that if I were to receive an email from Autodesk inviting me to participate in the Revit 9 beta program, that I was not allowed to publicly disclose receiving it.


That's really pathetic.

Here *is* what's posted under a "news" item on the site:

While I disagree that Autodesk beta software should be confined under an NDA, I respect that Autodesk is generally allowed to make the rules for the use of their beta software, and as such, this forum needs to follow along. However, agreeing to be *invited* to participate in such a beta does not mean agreeing to the terms of actively participating in the beta (i.e. downloading the software and logging into the beta forums). While I have confidence that the moderators are using their best judgement, it is my opinion that some of the AUGI moderators have overstepped the bounds of the intent of confidentiality by erasing a post that simply stated that they had received an email from Autodesk inviting them to participate in the Revit 9 beta program.Apparently this guy has never heard of insider trading. Get him a job at IBM, we can hedge hedge hedge, and make a fortune.