Design options

[tim.101799]

I am working on a project, and I am starting to use the deisgn option feature for the first time.At first it was fairly straight foward when I only had two options (primary option #1 and option #2). I started to run into problems when I added a 3rd option. I need to select ceratin elements that are part of option #2, and also make them part of option #3. But Revit will not let me. Am I missing something?

Also, what are option sets all about?

[lev.lipkin]

You can have several design option sets, each design option set would have its own primary option and could have several secondary options. Thus you can explore different combinations: one from every design option set by (say) turning on visibility of desired options in each option set using View->Visibility-> Design Options tab.

Error is posted because selected elements were already in design option (see the warning). If you expand Warning 1, you could see set of element ids that you selected, and check that they are already in design option.

[tim.101799]

Error is posted because selected elements were already in design option (see the warning). If you expand Warning 1, you could see set of element ids that you selected, and check that they are already in design option.

OK, but is there anyway to add those objects to another design option? I want certain elements to be part of several design options.

Tim

[iru69]

Yes - you need to copy the objects, open up the other design option(s), and paste them. You can not "nest" design options within other design options. I'm not aware of a more "automatic" way.

HTH

p.s. - have you tried a forum search on this subject? - it's been covered before in quite a bit of detail.

[tim.101799]

I guess I can work with that.

Say you create several design options. You can then pick objects from your main model and choose what option or multiple options you want them to belong to. But your saying that once those objects are part of a deisign option and are no longer part of the main model, you just cannot add them to another option. You have to copy and paste it.

[kpaxton]

OK, but is there anyway to add those objects to another design option? I want certain elements to be part of several design options.Tim
Tim,

One of the most frequent error messages you will get with Design Options is the dreaded "An element in a Design Option cannot host or be hosted by an element in another Design Option".

Think of it this way - Each Design Option exists in it's own parallel universe and cannot 'see' the other options. They don't exist (except to tell you there is a conflict). It can only react directly with things in the Main Model.

To alleviate this, just make copies of those elements and place them in each option. This is easy to do when you're starting out because you can select your elements and then use the "Add to Design Option Set" button (with the green plus sign) and then select the options you want to add to.

It gets a bit more confusing when you want to add something later that is in one Option but not in another. Actually this is easy too. All you need to do is:

Go into the first Option where the element(s) are.
Select the elements and hit Ctrl-C (copy).
Exit out of that Option and go into you second Option,
Select Edit > Paste Aligned > Current View.
The elements now will be placed in this Option - probably with some conflicts, but at least now you can edit them within the Option.

Again, The creators originally envisioned the Design Options as a temporary thing.. to help designers convey multiple ideas to their clients - then select one of them to continue with. As it turns out in the Housing Industry, designers are using the options to not only show.. but keep these ideas all the way through CD's . It can certainly be done - as we have done this too - but you have to pay attention and keep track of the different Options along the way.

Does this help?

Regards,
Kyle

[tim.101799]

Tim,

One of the most frequent error messages you will get with Design Options is the dreaded "An element in a Design Option cannot host or be hosted by an element in another Design Option".

Think of it this way - Each Design Option exists in it's own parallel universe and cannot 'see' the other options. They don't exist (except to tell you there is a conflict). It can only react directly with things in the Main Model.

Regards,
Kyle

Thanks, that really helped make sense of all this.

If I take an object from the main model and make it part of several deign options. Is that one object now part of those several options, or does revit Copy those object into each option. To use your metaphor, if I make a door part of 3 options. Does that one door exist simultaneously in 3 parallel universes. Or do 3 individual doors exist in 3 different parallel universes?

[Adam Mac]

Yeah, thanks Kyle. I've stayed away from using the Design Options tool but after your explanation i think i'll give it a try.

Thanks again.

Adam.

[kpaxton]

Thanks, that really helped make sense of all this.

If I take an object from the main model and make it part of several deign options. Is that one object now part of those several options, or does revit Copy those object into each option. To use your metaphor, if I make a door part of 3 options. Does that one door exist simultaneously in 3 parallel universes. Or do 3 individual doors exist in 3 different parallel universes?
Tim,

Muah-ha-ha-ha.... You are leaning young Padowan.

The door you speak of are individualities - they are not the same door. There is an Option 1 door, and Option 2 door and an Option 3 door. Everything within the Options are unique and will have it's own database signature, if you will.

Within the Views, you will be able control which Option you can see with View Visibility. However, you will be able to see only ONE Option within each SET. You can have multiple Sets, with each having multiple Options.

Example: You might have a house that has the following setup:
Garage Option Set

Garage (Primary) <- (This is the base option and will show by default)
3rd Bedroom Option <- (This option turns the garage into a bedroom with a bath)
Den Option Set

Den (Primary)
4th Bedroom Option <- (This option converts the Den into another bedroom)
Now, you want to show these options to your client, so you create a new floor plan view. You then type " V V " to call up View Visibility. At the right is your design options. You can now select and show ONE option of EACH Option Set. To show other combinations, you will need to create a new floor plan view for each one.

Does this help?
Thanks,
Kyle

[LRaiz]

Now, you want to show these options to your client, so you create a new floor plan view. You then type " V V " to call up View Visibility. At the right is your design options. You can now select and show ONE option of EACH Option Set. To show other combinations, you will need to create a new floor plan view for each one.

What even experienced users often miss is how to show schedules for different options. In that case VV shortcut does not work but you can still select View Properties from schedule view context menu or select schedule in the browser and hit Property button. Then in schedule property dialog select Edit button for Visibility parameter and specify options for scheduling.

[irwin]

Regarding how to get elements from the second option into the third option:

- If you want most of the elements in the second option to also be in the third option then create the third option using the Duplicate button in the options dialog (after selecting the second option from the list) rather than the New button. That way the third option will be created by copying all elements in the second option. Then you can delete anything that you don't need.

- If it is only a few elements, then use Copy to Clipboard and Paste Aligned | Same Place (that will work in more cases than Paste Aligned | Current View; the Same Place option was added with this purpose in mind).

- The Add to Option Set command isn't allowed for elements that are already in an option. The reason is that this command used to add the element to all options in the set, which would result in duplication if it were already in one of them. However, since the command was first created it has been enhanced to allow specifying to which options in the set the elements will be added. Now, it makes sense for Add to Option Set to be allowed for elements that are already in an option, and the command should prevent them from being added to options in that set that already contain one of the elements or a copy of it. This would be a reasonable enhancement request.

By the way, on a historical note, when design options were created we were aware of the uses within the housing industry where design options are kept all the way through CD's and it was intended that design options would be valuable in that case as well as for the temporary case that Kyle described.

[kpaxton]

Irwin,

Always in the mood for a good History Lesson! Thank you for my correction in that matter! As always - thanks also for the clarifications and other tips-n-tricks.

Where else can you find the Founders of the software commenting and helping the users? Wonderful! Keep up the good work guys!

Regards,
Kyle

[peakprecisiondesign]

I'm in the housing industry and am having a hard time with some options. The ones that are giving me trouble are ones that involve the same roof. Say one option is for different garage sizes and another is for some different covered patio or porch configurations and another is for some modifications to a bedroom. If I copy and paste the roof into each option, when the time comes to accept the options I end up with three different roofs (all slightly different) in the same model which looks bad and causes the roof schedule to triple (at least). Do you guys have any ideas?

[Steve_Stafford]

Most people struggle with the implications of design options... how deeply they touch other elements.

Roofs are a good example because a garage that is "bigger" as an option is probably almost a completely "new" garage including a bigger "similar" roof. Roofs that are a gable in this option and a hip in that option are really different roofs too, meaning a second roof in the other option as well as any wall that have to change because of the roof profile. A wall can't be longer in one option than another. A door can't be in one option and another without its host wall.

For housing it is probably more reliable to create all your options but never Accept Primary. In other words since a buyer could potential choose from any of the options you offer you don't really want to get rid of any options. Each option should be displayed in views that are forced to show that option instead of simply being set to Automatic, since that just shows whatever option is primary. Changing the primary option affects annotation that is tied to elements that are visible in a view but no longer can be when the Primary Option that was visible is no longer. You can avoid the errors associated with that by using Design Option specific views and only using annotation for those features in those views.

You will probably need to model "more" than you might want to or intuitively expect to in each option but ultimately you should be able to generate a set of documents that accurately reflects the design and the options that a buyer has selected.

[peakprecisiondesign]

Thanks Steve. I like the "never accept primary" idea. I can customize the views to reflect the different options selected. Messing around with it I still won't be able to show multiple options that involve the roof. For example I tried setting the graphics to show the 14' wide full depth 3rd car garage and the option that shows a deeper 2 car. It now shows two roofs. In 2008 I really tried to make a run at design options and basically found this same problem. If it were up to me I would just draw the options as the come (except for the easy less problematic ones). The big issue is we have around 20 or so homes with three elevations each all done and management would like to have all 60 or so homes retooled with a set of anywhere from 50-75 design options per elevation. I think they visualize people just choosing a bunch of options and the plans would be done in no time. I think it would dang near take as much time to set up all of the graphic overrides, re-dimension, re-text etc. and update the framing plans (our roof framing is just a multi-line family that looks like a nice 2d truss (actual trusses were a hassle and made everything more complicated as I learned from this site years ago)). I honestly think there would be more errors as well.

[Steve_Stafford]

When you create an Option Set you are identifying a problem to solve. The options are the solutions. I start with an empty solution (Option 1 empty) so I can show what something looks like before any options are in play...when necessary. That can be useful to show an empty kitchen before any design options are applied.

For a garage that is 14 feet wide x 18 feet deep (option 1) and 14 feet wide x 20 feet deep (option 2), option 2 requires an entirely new garage unless you want to show new short walls at the back. It's cleaner to model the new garage elements entirely in that option. Most people start with a solution and then turn on Design Options. That means that the current design IS a solution. You can select elements and Add to Option Set. Only select the option sets that make sense. Then set the Option as current to alter the design. It's easier if you create views that only show the option you want to show before editing but you MUST tell Revit you want to edit the option before you start working on it, otherwise Revit thinks you're just working on the Main Model.

If you are doing things correctly you should NOT have two roofs in one option.

[peakprecisiondesign]

I started with a completely finished and detailed plan with a standard 12 x 24 3rd car garage. there are a few options with increases in depth and width. Another option is to deepen the two car garage which affects the same roof. there are at least three or four other option sets that will all deal with the same roof as well. If I add a bay window (that has the roof copied into it as part of the option set) and then they want the wider third car and I set it up to show those two options the option for the bay shows the roof that is included in that option that is the standard width AND the wider third car garage so there ends up being two roofs showing. There are not two roofs in one option but if I show two different options that both deal with the roof in different ways I will see both of those roofs.

[Steve_Stafford]

You have to reduce it down so each "finished" display is a complete thought based on options selected. All the interrelated parts need to be together. It's one thing to mix options that are separate like a master bedroom option and kitchen option and another entirely to mix interrelated ones like a garage this deep with a bay window and a garage that deep without a bay window. I find that people give up on options because they resist breaking them all down logically as they must in order to get Revit to play along. I mean logically the way computer software needs it to, not the way we are able to think about differences between things abstractly.

[ford347]

Guys, I have a question regarding how to convey design options. One of our uses for Revit is producing rough framing (wood) layouts for production housing. We create multiple design options based on the developers options, never select 'accept primary' and create lot specific layout sheets corresponding to that lots elevation and options choices.

My question is, how can I setup some views to display design options as they are shown when being edited? It is very clear what is part of a particular option when editing as everything that is not part of that option is greyed out. This would mainly be an internal sheet so that the estimator responsible for the ship lists could quickly and clearly see what areas are part of the base house and what belongs to options in any given set.


https://youtu.be/G4k0tBIqaQY

Thanks,
Josh

[CAtDiva]

Guys, I have a question regarding how to convey design options. One of our uses for Revit is producing rough framing (wood) layouts for production housing. We create multiple design options based on the developers options, never select 'accept primary' and create lot specific layout sheets corresponding to that lots elevation and options choices.

My question is, how can I setup some views to display design options as they are shown when being edited? It is very clear what is part of a particular option when editing as everything that is not part of that option is greyed out. This would mainly be an internal sheet so that the estimator responsible for the ship lists could quickly and clearly see what areas are part of the base house and what belongs to options in any given set.


https://youtu.be/G4k0tBIqaQY

Thanks,
Josh

If you have a Design Option active, then there will be a "Design Options" a tab in Visibility/Graphics and/or View Templates. You can assign a particular option to any given view or view template.

[ford347]

I understand how to show design options in views. My question is how I can control the visibility graphics of design option elements vs main model elements. The reason why I brought up the editing process is because when editing, it is very clear what is part of the option due to the main model being greyed out. I would like to emulate those graphics in a view. Does that make sense?

[david_peterson]

Project parameter and a View Filter?
Should be easy to apply it.
That's how I'd go about it.
Gives you the most control.

[ford347]

I see, so you're saying just throw in a project parameter, select all objects in the main model, type something like 'main model', and similarly go through each option doing the same. Then use that to control visibility? That would work. The only problem I see with it is that we use an add-in tool to generate walls. When any wall is regenerated, new structural components are created, rendering that field blank each time. But, we normally don't have to change much after the model is finished up and the views are created, so this could work.

It would be nice if we could have access to all visibility controls in relation to design options; that would be cool.

Thanks for your suggestion!

Josh

[david_peterson]

Option B would be to have Dynamo Fill out that parameter for you.
I was thinking you create one Project Parameter called "Design Options" and apply it to all categories. You can make a text based and then you can fill it out with the option name.
You should be able to pull what's on a design option (And what option it's on) and apply that to the parameter.
You shouldn't have to worry about what's in a main model. That's a color by default.
I'm not a solid dynamo user so I'm not 100% certain it's possible, but I did a quick search and found a few threads about it.
Typically if you can get the info out via dyanamo you can sort it, list it and using the list to apply values to those objects.