Scheduling different types of square footage

[DanielleAnderson]

That's the most coherent title I could come up with--hopefully it is clear enough.
What I am after is this: I am working on a mixed-use project where we will need to do a variety of different square footage calculations such as gross square footage, usable square footage, etc. (GBA, GMA, MVP, BCA, etc) I am new to this world and have never had to do this before, but this is obviously valuable information that the developer will need to be kept up to date on as the design progresses.

The questions are these:
1) Can revit calculate and keep track of these various data components separately in some kind of schedule? Will I have to add these values manually or can revit measure them?

2) Can revit calculate GSF to say, the outside face of glass of a window instead of the outside face of core or something like that?

Any help/advice/recommendation is welcome. I am assuming I will need to somehow supe up a room tag to handle this and use area separation lines? I'm just not quite sure where to begin and what Revit is actually capable of measuring and keeping track of or am I going to be stuck using the ole' p-line in autocad?

Thanks!
Danielle

[Scott D Davis]

Revit 9.0 has this really nice new "room object" which allows you to really define the space. This might be an option for what you are trying to do, although it wont be released until mid April.

[jbalding48677]

Danielle -

If I understand you correctly, you need different types of area schedules, some with calculated values. Yes, you can do what you are after. You will need to set up different area types. This is an area that many people miss. You can create as many different types of area calcs as you need. Go to Settings | Area Settings | New. This will create a new type of area. You can now generated a plan and schedule based on that type. In one example, we used it to calculate unit areas separately from room areas, separately from gross areas, separately from area by use.

As far as the rules based areas, you may need to place the area boundaries manually as they are BOMA focused and may or may not work the way you need them to.

I hope that all makes sense.

- JB

P.S. I am doubting that the room functionality that Scott is referring to will do what you are looking to do, so waiting might be futile. He is such a tease ;)

.

[kpaxton]

Danielle,

Don't listen to a word that Scott says! Actually, he's quite correct, but in the meantime... until v9 comes to fruition...try this.

After having beat my head into the drafting table, I've managed to get a bit of a handle on the Area issues and hope to clarify some of your questions here.

Area Plans

Revit measures the values for the Area (whatever definition that is set) automatically for you based upon the Area Plan that you create, with the Boundaries that are set by you. How automatically is dependent on how you create the plans.
When you create an Area Plan, you are given the choice to have the program automatically create the Boundaries (based on the exterior face of the exterior walls) OR you can manually create the boundary lines by selection (arrow) or drawing lines( pencil).
Automatic boundary lines, like floors, are 'tied' to the walls and will move with them.
Manual boundary lines typically (by my experience) are not tied unless you Align/Lock them yourself. This isn't a bad idea, but note that in your moving things around, you may get a few error messages.
I haven't found a direct correlation with Room Separation lines (in the Drafting Tab) and doing Area plans. Those help with earmarking areas for room tags, but doesn't translate to Area Tags. (I think this may change a little in v9)
Area Schemes (Definitions)

Here's the semi-tricky part. Revit gives you TWO base calculation methods - Gross and Rentable Schemes. I have YET to have this work appropriately in the manner that I wish it to, as there is always something awry and I have to manually make it work anyway. In that regard, I will usually choose the Gross Scheme and create the Boundary Areas by hand with the pencil.
You CAN create as many Area Definitions as you want - for whatever you want to track. This becomes especially important (and required) when you're doing Design Options.
You will need to create an Area Plan for each major difference you want to track. For example; if you want to see the difference between Gross and Rentable, you will need to create a separate Area Plan for each type. This will go for each floor you have too.

The apparent reason for this is that when you have your Boundary Lines on the plan, they are what the Area Tag measures to, and reports back the amount - whatever that may be. The tag can't measure past what it runs into. e.g. If you had a box within a box, one area tag will measure the inside box, another area tag will measure the space between the inner box and the outer box (not the whole space contained by the outer box).

Area Tags

Area Tags can of course hold a variety of data and labels and parameters. Their function of course is to help with the information that will be scheduled.
Area Schedules

After you create an Area Plan, and add your Boundaries, and then add your Area Tags.... you need to create an Area Schedule. Under View > Schedule/Quantities> Areas (Gross or Rentable). IF you created other Area Schemes... then these will be available.
You will need to create a new Schedule for each Area Scheme (Gross, Rentable, etc.) and format them how you wish with the available parameters you put into your Area Tags.
I use the Filter ability quite often in the Schedule - I will first create one large all-encompassing Schedule. Then I will Duplicate that Schedule and apply a filter on it using a parameter I've placed in my Tag.

e.g. in a Multifamily Townhouse project, I have units A, B, C and D. My 'Master schedule' has all the information, but then I create a duplicate schedule and filter to show only the A-unit's information.

This is getting re-vamped in v9... and is supposed to get a weeee bit easier.:D
I hope this helps in the short term at least. As to your question of measure to the face of glass... it's to wherever you want to draw your lines!!

-Kyle

[jbalding48677]

Danielle,

Don't listen to a word that Scott says! Actually, he's quite correct, but in the meantime... until v9 comes to fruition...try this.
I must be missing something... ???

[LRaiz]

Truth be told you don't have to have multiple area plans and multiple area schemes. It is quite possible that simple colorfills for your rooms will do what you need.

You probably know already how to make a colorfill in a plan view and how to edit the color scheme of a colorfill. However people sometimes do not realize that they can make multiple color schemes and use them in different views. Attached is an image of 3 copies of the same plane view with 3 different color schemes applied. It is quite simple to do. One just needs to select the colorfill legend, press property button and proceed to duplicate colorfill types. Then duplicate views (with detailing to get copies of room tags) and in each view select colorfill legend, switch to a distinct type and edit its color scheme.

[kpaxton]

Truth be told you don't have to have multiple area plans and multiple area schemes. It is quite possible that simple colorfills for your rooms will do what you need.

You probably know already how to make a colorfill in a plan view and how to edit the color scheme of a colorfill. However people sometimes do not realize that they can make multiple color schemes and use them in different views. Attached is an image of 3 copies of the same plane view with 3 different color schemes applied. It is quite simple to do. One just needs to select the colorfill legend, press property button and proceed to duplicate colorfill types. Then duplicate views (with detailing to get copies of room tags) and in each view select colorfill legend, switch to a distinct type and edit its color scheme.
Leonid,

Yes, I think you have very valid points and this is extremely useful. However, as to what we're describing, I don't think that having different Color Fills will do the intended job. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the color Fills are dependent upon the Boundary Lines and their placement, no?

In our work, we have the need to compare the results from two or more Schemes. (I'll keep it to two ideas to keep matters clear) For example - I have to report to my client the Gross SF of the building. I also have to report the Rentable SF, or what they're going to be able to charge for the spaces. These two Schemes use two different calculation methods to determine their area. (And I haven't even begun to discuss using Design Options or other types of Schemes.....)

Once these Schemes are made, we then have to make separate Schedules to report back the values of each (Gross and Rentable). The drawback is that we can't "cross-pollinate", per se, and have information from each of these 'talk' to one another. The simplest example of this is being able to subtract the Rentable total from the Gross total to find the difference. We have to do this by hand... with TEXT... (that is sooooo AutoCAD). ;)

I looked briefly into Multi-Category, but that was misleading as it doesn't allow information from any other Category to be mixed. Is this just for other Parameters included in our tags, etc.?

I've included to JPGs to help illustrate my points.

Thanks for your input!
Kyle

[PeterJ]

Can you do the following, Kyle? Forgetting for a moment the big difference between Gross and Net, if you were to assume that all Danielle's areas were derived from one or the other, probably Net, could she not add a number of shared parameters to her areas and then use these area tags to enable one area to reflect different characteristics, so it could be room use, room finish, lettable unit etc.

From that information you could follow Leonid's advice and vary the colour fill depending on the information you were trying to extract. YOu would only then need to draw it once.

[LRaiz]

After rereading the original question posted by Daniel I think that Kyle is absolutely right to point toward Area Plans/Schemes. This feature was introduced for the expressed purpose of supporting BOMA and different ways of computing gross, net, and rentable areas. My previous post about using colorfills and rooms is applicable for showing finishes, usage, or occupancy but is not related to the original topic. Sorry if I confused anyone.

[DanielleAnderson]

Fascinating discussion everyone...continue on, I am still listening... ;) great suggestions by the way.

[lev.lipkin]

If there are commonly used ways to 'cross-pollinate' different schedules, you might want to add such requests to wish list, or file request for additional functionality (through Support, please add to your request supporting desired deliverables, like images of drawings or schedules).

If there are special needs for additional computations of room areas in different ways, or in creating documents from several schedules, another route is to consider Revit API plug-in which would make customized computations. This method would need coding skills of elevated level. Word of caution: currently Revit API plug-in might populate rooms with shared parameter(s) using different computations, but those values will update only when API plug-in is re-run again (not on every user action, as room areas). So choose this route if such approach is ok, and if the needs change from region to region.

I wonder if after several Revit users in the same area have joined such request on Revit - API forum willing developers respond.