ADT vs. Revit

[stevomatic]

I've noticed a lot of firms in the last 6 months or so here in Chicago pushing to implement Revit into their firms. Big companies too. I have been using ADT for some years now and decided to give Revit a try. I've only gone through the "getting started" part but I can't figure out why I would use Revit over ADT. On the surface, it seems like Autodesk has implemented a lot of features into ADT from Revit especially on th topic of project organisation, although I can't say who had it first. It also seems like Revit has a long way to go before it reaches ADT's level of UI, customization, etc.

So, why revit?

I'm wondering, if I post this in the Revit forum, would I get different responses?

Also, as a new user, I apologize if this thread has already been created although I did a search and didn't find what I was looking for.

[jobcaptain]

I posted 2 replies in this thread...several others are providing their insight to your question. Please be sure to read both of my posts on page 2.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=34580&page=2&pp=10

Most of my meetings & presentations in Chicago are at the principal, officer, and senior management level. I can't simply rely on selling the scary cool aspects of Revit, it needs to pay for itself, the transition and the bottomline profitablility....a position that very few people are challenged to do.

I'm proficient with both ADT and Revit... some of that buzz in Chicago comes from our organization's level of representation in the Chicago market. Events have taken place in Chicago where several organizations no longer support the ADT & Revit product lines.

Here's the blog I posted recently that describes our last 2 years of efforts in the Chicago market. And its title syncs with your question.

Revit or ADT? What's Our Best Choice? (http://taylor-tech.com/blogs/getEntryById/71/entry.html)

Cheers!

[beegee]

I must agree with Daniel's synopsis.

[jay.80870]

Stevomatic,

Great questions. However, you will find most users stay away from these topics as they have been throughly discussed and tend to get "heated" with each side pointing out the strengths/weaknesses of each program. Run several searches and you should find plenty of lively discussions. You can also go to the Autodesk Discussion Groups to review prior posts on this very subject: http://discussion.autodesk.com/index.jspa

You also need to take into consideration where recommendations come from. Many users on either side will be biased to their recommendation for reasons that don't benefit your personal current / future needs. I.E. did the post / advice come from someone who sells that particular platform and do they have incentives to promote that version aside from helping you select the best product for your needs? The internet and its aides (discussion groups, blogs, etc.) are excellent means for gathering information but it is also an easy avenue for individuals to manipulate for personal gain and not your best interest.

In short, you will find pros / cons for both causes. Ultimately thought your decision must come down to determining what works best for your organization (and any downstream users) minus hype or any biased opinions. According to a recent Cadalyst article ADT is still growing very strong with 50,000 sales last year bringing that platforms total to around 440,000. Official Revit numbers have not been released but as previously mentioned it is having a good sales rate as well especially with the AutoCAD / Revit bundle promotion.

Definitely use the groups and blogs as sounding boards for your decisions but your final decision still needs to rest upon throughly reviewing your options with "live" evaluations. Scripted and sales demos are nice but get into the guts of each option. You can then make a educated decision based on your needs.

Thanks
Jay

[stevomatic]

To Jay: Thanks, although I don't know that a heated debate is warranted. I just wanted to know what the differences are and perhaps open a dialogue on how close these two applications are getting to each other, which brings me to dhughes' post. I will check out the link you provided, hopefully there are posts regarding the latest versions.

To dhughes: I looked at your links and some others on TT's site.
Regarding "Revit's 10 Best ROI Features for Your First Pilot Project", it seems that ADT can do most if not all of these.
Regarding: "Revit or ADT? What's Our Best Choice?" ADT can provide these advantages as well so why is Revit better? Isn't the concept of BIM using a central 3d model to derive all of your documentation from? ADT does that. I see descriptions of Revit's parametric abilities but ADT has the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not an ADT expert, but if you edit a schedule or change a detail it updates in the model.

To make a long story short, it seems like between ADT and Revit, Autodesk is providing you the means to accomplish the same thing (creating CD's parametrically from a central model) in to different ways. It just seems like ADT is a more robust and mature program and the differences between the two are blurring more and more. So, my question remains: Why are so many firms switching to Revit. And, for those of you recommending people switch to Revit, are you familiar with ADT? Are you recommending people switch to Revit from AutoCAD only? What about those using ADT?

From What little I know about Revit concerns me: I don't know what Revit can do that ADT can't, ADT's VIZ is better than Accurender, you still need AutoCAD to develop details in Revit, and Autodesk lists Revit first among applications for architects. Why?

It seems to me if Autodesk bought Revit for it's patents, it's time now to chose an application and stick with it. If ADT is showing more of Revit's features with each release, and Revit is adding more of ADT's or AutoCAD features with each release, why not consolidate the two (besides money). And while you're at it, why keep Building Systems and Inventor separate?

[jay.80870]

Steve,

I totally agree but you have two very loyal groups of users and the debates can get pretty "hairy" at times. Just a few comments in regard to your recent post:

Is ADT BIM? Yes. Is Revit BIM? Yes. Both are able to create a 3D model with 2D linework but there are some differences in the process. I am not a fluent Revit users so some of this is just general knowledge but Revit endorses / uses a "parametric" method to its BIM process. In short this means that a change in one view is immediately reflected throughout the rest of the drawing.

BIM for ADT is also driving from a model but a change to a drawing must be "refreshed" to be changed / coordinated throughout the rest of the drawing. Is one method better or worse than the other? All depends on your needs and how you like to work. We are all working to the same goal with different avenues.

Your statement."it seems like between ADT and Revit, Autodesk is providing you the means to accomplish the same thing (creating CD's parametrically from a central model) in to different ways" very well sums up the key differences between the two.

Personally we are ADT users and will remain so. That does not mean Revit has some great qualities but it does not work at this time for our needs. We felt it was important to remain on a DWG platform and we are more concerned with residential construction documentation. At this time ADT is the best platform for us. We also do not have any builders or sub-contractors that we work with or distribute plans to that are utilizing Revit and that plays a key role in our choice of platforms.

Consolidate the two? In an ideal world that would be awesome but it is not possible since the two platforms do not share a common programming language. In time I think we will see a closer merging of the two applications but to the best of my knowledge it will not be possible to simply consolidate them together. But one can take on the positive aspects of the other. Which is already happening for both programs.

ADT added over 40,000 new users last year. That is a HUGE revenue source. So I believe it would be unwise to think ADT is going anywhere anytime soon. They are both great products with equally great merits. Just wisely evaluate your organizations needs, review the products solutions to these needs and then decide on that evaluation.

I also see a mistake in many recommendations that don't take into account the industry differences. Recommendations can and should change depending on the industry (commercial or residential) and then further drill down into that users role. Are they design only, drafting only, combination of both, etc? IMHO, no singular program will be able to globally resolve issues for those two distinctly industries.

You might provide a description of your role, your companies primary service, etc. and get some more directed information for your personal evaluation.

Thanks,
Jay

[Steve_Bennett]

It's good to see more people coming to the realization that both programs have their ups & downs depending on what type of work your firm handles. Some firms have AutoCAD, ADT & Revit - I'm working with one right now. Others have gone fully with Revit, others to ADT. ADT is not going away & Revit will continue to be refined along with ADT. Just because you make a decision today, does not mean that you would make the same one 5 years into the future. Ask yourself, why does Toyota sell a Prius, Corolla & Camary? They all get you from A to B, but they are targeting different markets/users. Autodesk is doing the same but with AutoCAD, ADT & Revit.

P.S. - Thanks for keeping the discussion professional. It's a nice departure from previous discussions we've had in the past on this very subject.

:beer:

[jobcaptain]

As most have stated, choosing a product based on your situation is the best. I've developed what I term is a report card, a spreadsheet that evaluates 30 business and workflow processes in a firm. I use AutoCAD as the base product and measure ADT and Revit around these processes by giving them a grade of 1-10.

Now this tells us which product may be a better fit OR it may identify those processes that need to change if we're going to successfully implement ADT or Revit...since both automate CDs better than vanilla AutoCAD, owners now get a real financial view of what its costing to stay status quo.

More than half of the firms in our Chicago meetings elected to conduct a Strategic Process Review where we interview and analyze 9 key aspects of a firm and then create a recommendation report with a written transition & implementation plan.'

When we started representing Revit, we started providing Free RevitTest Drives in all of our locations. Over a 90 minute time frame, a Revit instructor walks you through the creation of a buidling...you are completely hands on with the product.

The product sells itself....the Test Drives really let the user see what can be done with their skill level.


When we're involved in implementation, its just like being on the team. So production proficiency with both products has kept the report card honest to the evaluation process and not to opinon. Very few Reviteers or ADT citizens have successfully done projects in both products As a former owner of 15 years, I keep an owners view on my Return On Investment which is usually task based. As a trainer of 22 years, I've never seen principals flock to classes and produce tangible results like they've done with Revit...Never...with the more than 3000 I've taught.

We don't usually analyze on features. Its rather systematic ...it can be low grade analytical with the report card or it can take a high level business approach with a SPR.

While ADT and Revit appear graphically to be the same they are worlds apart when we look what's under the hood..

In fact, Autodesk considers Revit its flagship architecural product that's really BIM.
A Revit project is in only one file, ADT still links all DWG files together to produce a building. The data file format of Revit can connect to other programs using a common method of interfacing my Revit model to estimating, specifications, LEED analysis, structural analysis with the oportunity to revise the Revit model based on the analysis program. Largely because the entire model is in one file.

ADT is not parametric. When I change a dimension value in Revit it moves the geometry that's attached to the dimension. I can lock dimension values in Revit to prevent users from changing my designs. I can apply formulas inside my dimensions to resize my objects.

ADT needs multiple dimension & text styels for each plotting scale...just like when I started on ACAD 1.x. Revit automaitically resizes annotaitons to the scale of the viewport. I usually have only 3 text sizes in my project that work in both model and layout space. In Revit I can go to half size prints without any messing around with text sizes.

ADT does not have Design Options or Construction Phasing that link dynamically to schedules. I can show a client 3 variations of their kitchen with the click of a button, update the schedules connected to each option so we analyze the real value of one option over another. Construction Phasing displays the building as it looks at various stages of the construction process.

Revit schedules are really bidirectional..they can alter the graphics in the drawing.

Revit Elevatons and sections automatically update...not in ADT

I can sketch on the face of 3D wall elevation faces in Revit and alter the detail of the elevation at a higher level than I can with the tools in ADT.

I grew up drawing with pencils and pin bars...the annotation graphics in Revit match the same graphics I used 27 years ago...the same graphics that I usually have to alter in ADT ...I use Revit's right out of the box graphics..

The Sheet Management in Revit inherent to the product. ADT I need to build the Project Navigator, the sheet index automatically updates in Revit like every other schedule...not so in ADT.

Revit's detailing is getting far better than it was when I started on Revit 4...much better with parametric architectural components, repeated detailing shapes like CMU....I pick a point and move away from it and watch the CMU modules stack right up the height of the wall.

When I place a room tag into a Revt room it immediately detects the area and fills in the Room Tag When I go to a Reflected ceiling plan it automatically reads the walls...in ADT I need to generate polylines...plus the ceiling grids autocenter to the room.

The Building Model Maker in Revit allows a designer to "play" with the masses while a production architect can attach walls, floors, roofs and curtain walls to the surfaces of the masses. IF the masses change, I can tell the architectural In Revit 9 we can import SketchUp files and work similar to creating the masses in Revit.

Initial Learning curve for Revit is less; as a certified instructor wtih the State of Wisconsin, we're taught how to leverage the methods of process education to help adults become employable more quickly using project-based training. Over the last 5 years, Revit trainees leave class with at least a 30% lead over the same students that complete an ADT class.

Combine that with Revit's ability import and export DWG & DGN files to reuse existing business assets; AutoCAD details, plans, 3D topography and the choice becomes easier on just a feature to feature comparison.

Others are correct, ADT is the 3rd largest revenue generator in the company. The numbers quoted to you are conservative estimates that are lower than the real numbers. ADT has a great delivery system of Content browser to palettes. The ADT team is responsible for adding some of the WOW we've seen in vanilla AutoCAD since 2004

Candidly we ran and still run the "report cards" and the SPRs....as Revit's maturity (technically) overruns ADT, clients see it as a more logical investment they can build on...as one person stated alreay, the Revit Series which provides Revit and AutoCAD is a great way to go.


There's at least another 10 significant items that either exist only in Revit or operate better.

Here's a link to a free audio video session Autodesk conducted for DesignOptions. Its Revit 7 but its still applicable and has gotten better.

Design Options Video (http://cadgrafx.com/blog/revit/2006/03/free-online-revit-training-design.html)



You're right, you asked what the differences were and we seemed not address with the specifics. Thanks to you , I'll have another blog or two from this response.

Cheers!



[QUOTE=stevomatic]
To dhughes: I looked at your links and some others on TT's site.
Regarding "Revit's 10 Best ROI Features for Your First Pilot Project", it seems that ADT can do most if not all of these.
Regarding: "Revit or ADT? What's Our Best Choice?" ADT can provide these advantages as well so why is Revit better? Isn't the concept of BIM using a central 3d model to derive all of your documentation from? ADT does that. I see descriptions of Revit's parametric abilities but ADT has the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not an ADT expert, but if you edit a schedule or change a detail it updates in the model.

To make a long story short, it seems like between ADT and Revit, Autodesk is providing you the means to accomplish the same thing (creating CD's parametrically from a central model) in to different ways. It just seems like ADT is a more robust and mature program and the differences between the two are blurring more and more. So, my question remains: Why are so many firms switching to Revit. And, for those of you recommending people switch to Revit, are you familiar with ADT? Are you recommending people switch to Revit from AutoCAD only? What about those using ADT?

From What little I know about Revit concerns me: I don't know what Revit can do that ADT can't, ADT's VIZ is better than Accurender, you still need AutoCAD to develop details in Revit, and Autodesk lists Revit first among applications for architects. Why?

QUOTE]

[Brian Myers]

So, why revit?


I believe this isn't a question of "why Revit" and more of a question of "what are your needs"?
If you find a reseller that pushes you heavily toward one product or another you need to step back and think of two things.

First, "Why are they pushing me to this product?" Do they have some financial gain?

Second, "What does their training schedule look like for these products?" Training can be both good and bad. Training can help you learn a product which is great, but there are some resellers that push a product in an effort to sell you their training at a greater profit.

I know, it's away from your original question, but its important you make the right decision for your company and its important to find a reseller that's honest about our needs (which isn't always easy to do in small, single dealer markets especially). Of course this is less of a problem in your specific area.

So back to my original point... ADT and Revit are two products that Autodesk is marketing as their Architectural solution. Revit overall is the superior product, but if you are a firm comfortable with doing mostly 2D drawing then ADT may work better for your process (now if that "process" is the best thing for your company is another debate). Also it's important to not be influenced by numbers of sales thrown about.

Example:

In an interview I read around November with a person from Autodesk they stated that Autodesk has 7 Million units of CAD products legally in the marketplace and 5 million of that are AutoCAD and AutoCAD LT. They estimated the total 3D penetration in the market place between 10-14%. Those are numbers you usually don't hear as a principle in a firm that doesn't follow the market closely... and if you went just by them you would buy all AutoCAD (which likely isn't a good idea for many/most firms).

Later on it was stated that they had sold 8,000 seats of Revit for the Quarter and that number was increasing per quarter. In other words, both products are still selling well (in fact, ADT with its 50,000 sales for the year likely outsold Revit in the last quarter) which is another reason why both products are still being offered. But expect those numbers to likely be flipped by the end of this year. So as of right now... they are likely selling close to the same number of seats of both products.

Ultimately, no one here can tell you why YOUR COMPANY should switch to Revit without sitting down with you, talking about your process and your bottom line. Likely Revit would work better for you over the long haul and we can provide you many reasons for that... but there are situations where ADT (or even AutoCAD) is still a viable solution. So while you may hear numbers and sales people that push you in a certain direction, make sure they not only explain why product "X" will be good for your company but make sure they explain the advantages of product "Y" as well. Both products will work for your company, the question is which one serves the needs of your company better.

Also, I'd wait about a month to really pursue any changes/get demonstrations if your firm is interested in changing over as the new Autodesk product line is getting ready to come out and their resellers are getting ready to go to training on these products within the next month.

Good luck to anyone that's starting this process and be sure to explore all your options well. If one product is not getting enough attention be sure to find out more about it as well before making your final purchasing decision... it could effect the future of your company.

[jdambrogio]

Autodesk (AD) is in the business of making money, RIGHT? AD needs to keep evolving, "keeping up with the Jones's" so to speak . For all the companies that bought into ADT in the nineties and received unlimited upgrades, that investment is finally starting to pay off.
ADT has become a much friendlier program to work in for CAD operators of multiple skill levels. This possesses a potential problem for Autodesk, because they are (as I said before) in the business of selling programs. If you were lucky enough to buy in early than you have no need to spend any additional monies to keep up with the newest version of the program. The only way AD will get you for some more cash is to introduce a new and improved program...... Catch my drift.
I think that ADT and Revit are on a collision course and we will see the two programs merge into one under the name Revit. Just my opinion.

[hand471037]

I think that ADT and Revit are on a collision course and we will see the two programs merge into one under the name Revit. Just my opinion.

Nah. It looks more like there's going to be three things out there:

Plain ol' AutoCAD, which is just drafting and some 3D.

ADT or "AutoCAD for Architects", AutoCAD that's semi-automated for Architectural drafting and more 3D, and lets people start to dabble in BIM.

Revit, which is all 3D & BIM.

Some folks are gonna find more value in one over the other, and, like where I work, there will be projects started in one that have years-long timelines that will stay on the platform they were started on just because re-creating the whole thing on another platform won't be cost effective.

Seeing that ADT's goal is totally different than Revit's (yet they produce similar deliverable at times) I really doubt that they will 'merge' at any point in the future. They have grown towards each other somewhat, yeah, but 'merge'? If that was the case, I think Autodesk would have already 'merged' them.

The vast majority of folks out there using ADT are just using it as an automated drafting tool with a little bit of BIM. Don't you think that if Autodesk could take the vast, vast number of ADT users and switch them over to a full BIM system without making them jump to such a different platform like Revit that they would? They've been trying for years now to make ADT more 'BIM' and more friendly- two things Revit's known for. Think of how many more seats of ADT they could sell to folks already using it if they could simply turn ADT into Revit. I mean, jumping onto Revit and full-on BIM is a big jump, it's not easy, and it's not an easy sell to some folks...

[david_peterson]

The vast majority of folks out there using ADT are just using it as an automated drafting tool with a little bit of BIM. Don't you think that if Autodesk could take the vast, vast number of ADT users and switch them over to a full BIM system without making them jump to such a different platform like Revit that they would? They've been trying for years now to make ADT more 'BIM' and more friendly- two things Revit's know for. Think of how many more seats of ADT they could sell to folks already using it if they could simply turn ADT into Revit. I mean, jumping onto Revit and full-on BIM is a big jump, it's not easy, and it's not an easy sell to some folks...I'll have to agree with some of your statement. Revit needs vast improvement before I'm going to use the term FULL BIM. ADT; Revit, Revit; ADT.......we could go back and forth all day long.
I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but how the heck are you supposed to detail in Revit. OOTB it's awkward. We use a heavily customized Autocad for most or our current work. A typical project for us is usually 25% plan work and 75% details.
Revit is a great tool for 3D, and interference checking (well at least if you are doing a steel frame building), But I have a hard time calling it FULL BIM. First off, in Revit Structure (RS) you can't import the model that counts (the Analytical one). I know, they tell you they have a "Bi-directional" link. But every time my RS model changes I have to export back out and re-apply all of my loading information again. Not practical. In my mind, a FULL BIM program would allow you to import objects, parts and pieces from other programs seamlessly.
With ADT I can take my Ram model, use my 3rd party add-ons of Ram Cad Studio w/ the ADT link and only have to create my model once. Later on in the project I can export my model Back to Ram, Update my ADT model with any changes. Then I can also export my Ram model to CIS2 and send it to the Steel fabricator. They can then design all the gussets plates and add that info in to the CIS2 file, which I can export back into Ram and export to ADT. Then send my ADT model off to my MEP guys using ABS and do the interference checks. But I guess that's only considered to be a Little BIM. ;)

[tim.101799]

I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but how the heck are you supposed to detail in Revit. OOTB it's awkward. We use a heavily customized Autocad for most or our current work. A typical project for us is usually 25% plan work and 75% details.


At first I hated detailing in Revit be cuase it was so differnt than AutoCAD. But my mind quickly changed. I know love it and find that I am much faster drawings 2D details in Revit than I ever was in AutoCAD. I now hate detailing in AutoCAD. On a current re-roofing project I am doing all the plan work in AutoCAD becuase it just not worth converting the background we have to Revit, and 3D modeling it not really needed for a re-roof. But I am doing all of the detailing in Revit becuase it like it so much and find it so much faster.

If you were to ask about detailing in the Revit forum you would get very similar responces. Most Revit users would never go back to detailing in AutoCAD.

[hand471037]

I'll have to agree with some of your statement. Revit needs vast improvement before I'm going to use the term FULL BIM.

I'm as pro-Revit as they come, but I agree with you there. Revit's got a ways to go before it will be 100% BIM. But I, personally, think it will be easier to make it get there and will get there faster than other products from both within Autodesk and from other companies. In the mean time, it's got more than enough value (to me) to be my primary choice for projects (but I'm not a steel guy, I'm an building designer guy). And it very much looks like Revit is Autodesk's prime focus for BIM, for they aren't even calling ADT BIM anymore, and seem to be doing things with Revit to position it moreso as a major player in BIM (such as IFC stuffs being built-in).

[hand471037]

On a current re-roofing project I am doing all the plan work in AutoCAD becuase it just not worth converting the background we have to Revit, and 3D modeling it not really needed for a re-roof. But I am doing all of the detailing in Revit becuase it like it so much and find it so much faster.

At the place I started using Revit, I spent the last six months or so there detailing everything in Revit and dumping it back to AutoCAD and just not telling anyone simply because I could generate the details so much faster that way (and with the DWG exporting it's not like anyone would know).

[Steve_Bennett]

I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, I hope not...


With ADT I can take my Ram model, use my 3rd party add-ons of Ram Cad Studio w/ the ADT link and only have to create my model once. Later on in the project I can export my model Back to Ram, Update my ADT model with any changes. Then I can also export my Ram model to CIS2 and send it to the Steel fabricator. They can then design all the gussets plates and add that info in to the CIS2 file, which I can export back into Ram and export to ADT. Then send my ADT model off to my MEP guys using ABS and do the interference checks. But I guess that's only considered to be a Little BIM. ;) A little BIM? I don't know if you can call it BIM, but you've got a whole lot better control over your data than you can with RS... I can't wait to see if the next release of RS fixes this.

:beer:

[Steve_Bennett]

... (but I'm not a steel guy, I'm an building designer guy).... That's it right there. You hit it on the head. Building designers & structural guys have different mindsets, opinions & needs/wants. You'll never be able to please everyone all the time.

:beer:

[markjohn.perry]

jdambrogio -

is definitely on the right track -

We've seen it happen before - Mechanical desktop V inventor

My view is that Autodesk cannot afford to keep 2 specialist architectural products running. I'm not sure what they're call it but my guess is that in the next 5 years ADT + Revit will merge -

[david_peterson]

I'm not sure what they're call it but my guess is that in the next 5 years ADT + Revit will merge -I've been saying that for about a year now.
Revit Still has a lot of improvement to go. Adesk Really needs to just open the API and let the 3rd party's in. Just my 2 cents.

[jobcaptain]

The users and their clients (deliverables) are driving the ongoing development of ADT & ABS. Even Autodesk has backed away from their original product messaging of only a couple years ago.

The productivity gains (business case) for switching from vanilla AutoCAD to ADT are more than overwhelming...regardless of software, training and implementation investments. While keeping the users on a AutoCAD-platform product.

New AutoCAD for Architects White Paper and Productivity Study (March 2006) (http://taylor-tech.com/press/getReleaseById/358/story.html)

More than 50% of vanilla AutoCAD users define their use of AutoCAD as fitting into the building design market. Which transition is initially perceived by more than a million of these users to be the safest, easiest and less costly? ADT or Revit?

ADT has been adding licensed users at a clip of more than 30% growth per year over the last couple years. As they now surpass an installed base of 440,000 users.

Here's the kicker; unlike the users that purchased ADT a few years ago and just used it as AutoCAD, these new users are buying and immediately implementing profitable labor reducing ADT functionality (i.e. doors, windows, walls, schedules, detail manager)

As a business case, those ADT licenses now have more credibility for investing in the ADT/AutoCAD platform. ADT is also the their third largest source of revenue....Autodesk has stockholders watching this impressive market number. Many of the Autodesk competitors’ installed client base doesn’t even match the installed base of ADT users.

For those that purchased ADT and used it as "just" AutoCAD, they realize they already own a design tool that they can leverage immediately with the investment of training and designing an implementation plan. What's their first choice? ADT or Revit?

The use of ABS in the MEP community has caught fire with profitable results for those engineering firms....ABS is ADT-based and dependent on ADT's ongoing development of features / process functionality...

The ADT rocket has an enormous payload in the form of users, their building clients and another discipline designed product like ABS. Its cleared the costly gravitational pull of market adoption... If you're a business person or investor; you're going to be careful not screw up (Newton's Law) an investment that is now returning big dividends to their installed users that made the investment to automate their design and drafting processes.

Newton's Law: "...an object in motion will remain in motion, unless acted upon by an outside force."

Like many I used the Mechanical Desktop : Inventor scenario for awhile...however; a closer evaluation of business model, workflow, client reuse of the post production documents, engineering vs architectural...just to name a few...the analogy soon loses credibility in both the eyes of a building designer and a manufacturing engineer.

In the field of building design we have a paradigm since Autodesk users created the need to define Revit as a second platform product....definitely uncharted waters for users and Autodesk. I can't think back or reference in my 22 years of implementing Autodesk products another applicable situation for the ADT vs Revit question. When I walk the halls of Infrastructure design firms, I see them using Autodesk and non-Autodesk products to fulfill client deliverables and to work with the expertise of outsourced engineering consultants.

It's been said before in this thread...the right product for the client deliverables, for the right project for the talents and expertise within your firms. Since all of these are variables, there will be opportunities, cost justification and validation to implement two products...maybe for a longer time than we all expect.

BootCamp Dallas' Big Finale is ADT 2007! (http://taylor-tech.com/blogs/getEntryById/93/entry.html)

Bootcamp Dallas - Its all about Revit on Days 3 & 4 (http://taylor-tech.com/blogs/getEntryById/92/entry.html)

Autodesk BootCamp-Dallas: AutoCAD/ABS 2007-Day 1 & 2 (http://taylor-tech.com/blogs/getEntryById/90/entry.html)

Cheers!

[Brian Myers]

It's been said before in this thread...the right product for the client deliverables, for the right project for the talents and expertise within your firms. Since all of these are variables, there will be opportunities, cost justification and validation to implement two products...maybe for a longer time than we all expect.


Off topic: We must have been in the same "classroom" those days, you had classes in the same order as myself...

On topic: That was a great post and I agree with what you are saying and it's the same thing I've seen as well. But I will make note that we really have two product lines now that are traveling a similar path and not just one. Revit Systems and ABS would be the others and the benefits of Revit Systems will eventually overtake ABS for every firm that uses the Revit data driven model as their architectural base. No, its not there yet... but everyone that understands the benefits of both can see it coming.

Ultimately (and this is just me) one of the biggest reasons in my mind that companies don't change over to Revit is they simply don't have the time to sit down and try it themselves. I know I didn't. But as a new Applications Engineer (just over a month) I've had the time to sit down with the product and finally use it after being an ADT user for years. While I can honestly say I'm not up to ADT speed on it yet, I can see where the product is taking me and the benefits it will provide once I DO find all the little ins and outs of the program. It's hard to quantify that. In other words, as an example, in all my research of Revit I understood how to build the building model. What I didn't understand was the joy of creating the sheets from all the different elements you've developed in your database up to that point. Suddenly the word "Powerful" we kept hearing at the Autodesk bootcamp really DID seem to fit for this program. Finally you could just see a light flash on in my head as to just how this data could be used more dynamically than likely its ever been used before in other design environments. To hear about data is one thing.. to twist it and manipulate it at your command is a much more "Powerful" experience.

Second, I don't think their is enough articles written by non-biased individuals on just what the impact of this software, and more importantly the DATA, will have on the future of not the industry, but of the mom and pop firm that's competing with the other little (and big) guys on the block. It can't be a "tech" book, but an interesting business profile showing examples people can relate to. Ultimately this value needs to be quantified as not just a value for themselves, but how the value provided to the client will trickle down to the "small" designers pocketbook as well. All in the words the client will want to read and understand. This is the sort of experience/message Autodesk has yet to provide its clients and I believe its hurting the direction of their Architectural model even as they see record success.