Project Setup for multiple townhomes

[kimudang]

Gents,

I'm starting a new project in Revit which consists of (4) townhouses which are all connected in a row. The townhomes will all be very similar to eachother in design and size (basically boxes) although there will be some differences, especially with the two end units. I spoke with the local city officals and they said they would allow me to include all four properties in one set of drawings utilizing the same site plan for all four. The general arrangement is described below.

(UNIT #1-END)---(UNIT #2 MIDDLE)---(UNIT #3 MIDDLE)---(UNIT #4 -END)

My questions would be:

Should I attempt to create two separate revit files, one for "END" and one for "MIDDLE" and then link them into a main Revit project?

OR

Design both "END" and "MIDDLE" layouts in one Revit file with no file linking?

OR

Something else?


Any help would be great! I'd like to know what everyone thinks about this.=)

[kpaxton]

Kim,

We do this all the time in our practice and it has been a bit of a struggle for us to determine what is 'best practice' within Revit. In Acad, you used to just Xref the plans in, however in Revit, things work a bit differently.

The main reason we've found to have separate unit files is if there will be swapping out of plans (ie Sales sells all #2 units on the interior in building #1 while there is a #2 and a #3 in Building #2, etc.)

It sounds like you've only got this one submittal (ie one building) that you're doing, and all the units are attached; also assuming they're Fee Simple. If that's the case I'll suggest to you that you keep it all in one file. It's quicker and easier to do this. If multiple users are on it, then you can easily Workset the project.

Within one project, create your end unit, then your middle unit. Make sure you're using Gridlines and reference planes to allow for ease of mirroring and dimension control. Also make sure you make 'half walls' for the common party walls down the gridlines (half the width of the normal wall). Just Join Geometry later to make the line in the middle go away. There was a small Tut on this a while back, so you might want to do a search. When you get your units to a good stopping point, go ahead and select them then mirror along the Centerline of the building. Then make your changes to the new units to be different than the originals.

Does this help? I know I've rambled on, but if you have any further questions, just let me know.

Good Luck,
Kyle

[kimudang]

Kyle,

Thank you for your response. What you described makes perfect sense. You're correct, this is a one time project for me so creating an eleborate system might not make sense with the utilization of additional linked revit files. I had a hunch that it would be faster doing it all in one revit file. I liked your technical description of the "half wall" idea. Makes the most sense. I might even be able to utlize revit's grouping functions to control similar rooms such as bathrooms. I'll design the first end and middle unit, and if I determine that some rooms may need to change a bit over time, such as the bathroom, but will remain the same in all units, I'll group these rooms before I mirror or copy.

Any additional tips or tricks for this type of project would be helpful.

[kpaxton]

Kyle,I'll group these rooms before I mirror or copy.
Any additional tips or tricks for this type of project would be helpful.
Kim,

As a word of caution, mirroring Groups can cause problems. Do a small example before going wholesale with your groups. I've had a run of bad luck with them and have abandoned using them (for now). With this small of a project, it's no problem just choosing what you want to mirror... and go with it! Treat this as a large home and you'll do fine. I've done projects like this, complete with Design Options for each unit, without any difficulties.

TIP:

Create and work primarily in an overall plan- add your text, tags, etc. as you need, even dimensions.
Then Duplicate with Detailing this view for EACH of the unit plans.
Then use Crop Region to only show what is necessary for the Unit plan.
Modify text and tags and dimensions as required.
Place on sheets. Ta-Da!
(Elevations will need a separate Elev. Tag for each unit to do this same thing)
Hope this helps!
-Kyle

[aaronrumple]

We do this type of work all in one file.

We design the unit plans off to the side as generic plans. These are grouped.

We then create the shells for each of the buildings and then place the groups in each of the units.

To try to get around the numerous issues of groups, we do several things.
Kitchens are groups unto themselves.
Bathrooms are their own group.
Nothing in these groups is hosted to a wall or other object.
Interior walls and doors are grouped. These are never mirrored. If we need a right and left hand version we have two groups. (These cause the most problems.)

We do unit plans and dimension interior partitions there.
The building plans only have dimensions for the shell of the building and then refer to the appropriate unit type.

We have two worksets per building: Shell and Interior Partitions.
We also have a common References workset.

The buildings are not placed on a site plan - we do that work in AutoCAD.

With R9, we'll look at linked files - but I don't know if this will yet be robust enough to do what we want.

[kimudang]

Well, I started in on the project and everything was going smooth, I built a single unit shell using reference planes to constrain the foundation walls and partywalls. The only problem is no matter through group, copy, or mirror attempts, when i made a copy of the first unit to see how a second unit would marry up to the first, I got a poblem with the front wall where the two half 4" cmu walls touch, it basically left a chunck out of the wall from the parapet all the way down to the foundation. Any ideas? I've attached an image to show the problem.

[kimudang]

I simplified the model and tested it. It still appears when I mirror the shell, the front wall adjacent to the party wall is incorrect, but appartently, the back party wall is correct. See the attached.

[dgraue]

I would suggest not grouping the exterior wall. You can group the interior elements of the unit but I would draw the exterior shell separately. However, to get the exterior wall to show correctly in your example you should be able to use the Join Geometry tool to clean up that intersection.

[kpaxton]

Well, I started in on the project and everything was going smooth, I built a single unit shell using reference planes to constrain the foundation walls and partywalls. The only problem is no matter through group, copy, or mirror attempts, when i made a copy of the first unit to see how a second unit would marry up to the first, I got a poblem with the front wall where the two half 4" cmu walls touch, it basically left a chunck out of the wall from the parapet all the way down to the foundation. Any ideas? I've attached an image to show the problem.Kim,
Sorry I didn't get to this earlier. What you're having occur is a simple Wall-Join problem. This has been commented on numerous times in other posts. Are you familiar with the wall join tool? This is the one where you get to choose either a Butt joint or a Mitered joint. ( BTW - I would probably have used Gridlines as opposed to Reference Planes, but that's my preference.)

I've had this happen to me alllllllll the time, and I've just got used to going around and 'fixing' the joins after I get the walls placed. When these are being mirrored, the calculations at the join are getting messed up. Select the wall join and then select a miter - see if that works. If not, cycle through with Next till one works. IF that doesn't, go back to a Butt join and cycle through those. If you're still having some difficulty (which I've had in the past too) pull one of the walls away enough to disjoin itself, cycle through with the remaining walls, and then grab the grip on the away wall, and pull it back.

GROUPS - I feel I have to comment on this topic one more time (in reference to your building). There are great advantages to using groups, especially when you have a high instance of repetitiveness. It saves you time and work. In my humble opinion, in this type of project, where there is a limited scope of only 4 units, I would seriously stay away from using groups. There isn't enough repetitiveness to justify using them. You'll spend more time having to worry about them, get into them, edit and then save them, rather than focusing on just... doing. On larger projects, where you need that time savings... sure: "Group 'em Dano". Focus your time on the first two primary units, then mirror them, then focus on a little clean-up. Your bottom line will thank you.

If anything - to save time and manpower efforts, you could certainly utilize Worksets, with 1) an outer shell set and 2) an inner partition set, a 3) furniture set and a 4) grids and reference plane set. This would allow multiple people to jump on and finish the project.

My two cents.
Kyle