Text Justification with Leaders

[Rob_Miller]

Hey all,

I wanted to get an idea of what everyone's standing was on text justification when used with leaders. I'm of the mindset that the text should be top-left justified with the leaders coming off the top-left of the note if the text is to the right and bottom-right if the text is to the left.

The only time I use anything other than top-left justification would be in regards to schedules and then it's acceptable to use middle-left and middle-center justification.

Generally speaking what is the accepted norm on text justification with respects to leader-ed annotations? Should the text be justified in accordance to the side that the leader is running off of (which doesn't look right to me)? Or should top-left be the standard with only a limited exceptions to the rule?

Your input on this is greatly appreciated ...

Thanks,

Rob

[H.Hunter]

Hey all,

I wanted to get an idea of what everyone's standing was on text justification when used with leaders. I'm of the mindset that the text should be top-left justified with the leaders coming off the top-left of the note if the text is to the right and bottom-right if the text is to the left.

The only time I use anything other than top-left justification would be in regards to schedules and then it's acceptable to use middle-left and middle-center justification.

Generally speaking what is the accepted norm on text justification with respects to leader-ed annotations? Should the text be justified in accordance to the side that the leader is running off of (which doesn't look right to me)? Or should top-left be the standard with only a limited exceptions to the rule?

Your input on this is greatly appreciated ...

Thanks,

RobWell, not that peopel here follow the rules...

We are supposed to use the default for Left/Right leader justification. Left side text is bottom right and right side text is top left.

There are occasions where I put a block in front of the text so I align the text to middle left/right on the block and set the leader on the block.

Overall default is easiest because you don't have to fiddle with it post-creation. The thing that really drives me crazy is the people that don't use associated leaders and "quickleader." grrrr...

[Rob_Miller]

Well, not that peopel here follow the rules...

We are supposed to use the default for Left/Right leader justification. Left side text is bottom right and right side text is top left.

There are occasions where I put a block in front of the text so I align the text to middle left/right on the block and set the leader on the block.

Overall default is easiest because you don't have to fiddle with it post-creation. The thing that really drives me crazy is the people that don't use associated leaders and "quickleader." grrrr...

I actually think to a certain degree the layout of annotation should be adjusted if the text should change. The word wrap of the MText should be adjusted to get the best layout (typically as close to equal length text lines). I've always had a problem with following other drafters that would add text without regard to the look and layout. If text was added to a note and it made the three lines of text and the word wrap could be adjusted to make them equal length (and it wasn't), it would drive me up the wall. This is why I adhere to a consistent Top-Left justification of text. It forced me to always be aware of how a drawing looked.

Actually, I tended to shy away from associating my leaders with the text because AutoCAD has this funny issue of completely boogering up the leaders. Don't you dare move the text without using a crossing window to catch the leader. That seemed so out of place - AutoCAD should be capable of adjusting the leader and keeping the last part of the leader horizontal. Plus, I usually defaulted my leader settings to always top-left justify the text and AutoCAD would never apply that principle to mirrored annotations and leaders.

Thanks for your reply ... I guess right now I may be the exception and not the rule on this ...

[H.Hunter]

I actually think to a certain degree the layout of annotation should be adjusted if the text should change. The word wrap of the MText should be adjusted to get the best layout (typically as close to equal length text lines). I've always had a problem with following other drafters that would add text without regard to the look and layout. If text was added to a note and it made the three lines of text and the word wrap could be adjusted to make them equal length (and it wasn't), it would drive me up the wall. This is why I adhere to a consistent Top-Left justification of text. It forced me to always be aware of how a drawing looked.

Actually, I tended to shy away from associating my leaders with the text because AutoCAD has this funny issue of completely boogering up the leaders. Don't you dare move the text without using a crossing window to catch the leader. That seemed so out of place - AutoCAD should be capable of adjusting the leader and keeping the last part of the leader horizontal. Plus, I usually defaulted my leader settings to always top-left justify the text and AutoCAD would never apply that principle to mirrored annotations and leaders.

Thanks for your reply ... I guess right now I may be the exception and not the rule on this ...Haha...that word wrap stuff irritates the hoo-ha out of me too. I get irrittated when words are too long and mess up the wrapping mojo.

I personaly have never had an issue with the associated text/leader. There are millions of times where I have to move text to avoid a new piece of equipment, so it may only move a 1/4" on the sheet and I really don't feel like messing with the leader too. I do agree that ACAD should be able to draw a horizontal line at the end no matter what, but I've kinda gotten over that one.

[robert.1.hall72202]

This is a good discussion. I generally tend to use whatever looks best given
the amount of space I have to place the text/leader. Most often I use left justified
text. When the text becomes a tight fit, then rules need to be broken.

[r.grandmaison]

I wanted to get an idea of what everyone's standing was on text justification when used with leaders. I'm of the mindset that the text should be top-left justified with the leaders coming off the top-left of the note if the text is to the right and bottom-right if the text is to the left.
b

TOTALLY in agreement with you on this one. It's one of my pet peeves and something I see violated all the time! I remember my early drafting instructors hammering it into our classes- not sure why it's been dropped off the radar for so many these days.

And, it's one reason I don't like the appearance of Revit drawings- it seems that there's no way to set it to this behavior for where the leader landing hooks into a mulitple line note...any Revit users want to correct me on that!?!? (PLEASE?!!!!)

[tedg]

I use left justified text everywhere when annotating details etc.
If the text is to the left of the feature, the arrow is at the middle bottom line of text. If the it's on the right, the arrow is at the middle of the top line of text. Call me evil but I don't use the associated leader because I like to manipulate how much of the "horizontal" part of the leader is away from the feature.

I know AutoCAD by default justifies them differently for each side, but it just isn't clean looking enough for me.

Don't even get me started about word wrap on mtext. I like to have it automatically wrap so if I need to adjust it, I can just grab a grip and stretch it. We have some people in our office that do a "hard return" when they create mtext. So if you need to adjust it later you need to get into the mtext and manipulate it.

Does that bug anyone else out there? It's one of my pet peeves!

Ted

[H.Hunter]

I use left justified text everywhere when annotating details etc.
If the text is to the left of the feature, the arrow is at the middle bottom line of text. If the it's on the right, the arrow is at the middle of the top line of text. Call me evil but I don't use the associated leader because I like to manipulate how much of the "horizontal" part of the leader is away from the feature.

I know AutoCAD by default justifies them differently for each side, but it just isn't clean looking enough for me.

Don't even get me started about word wrap on mtext. I like to have it automatically wrap so if I need to adjust it, I can just grab a grip and stretch it. We have some people in our office that do a "hard return" when they create mtext. So if you need to adjust it later you need to get into the mtext and manipulate it.

Does that bug anyone else out there? It's one of my pet peeves!

TedIt all peeves me when it doesn't look right.

Isn't that horizontal distance part of the Text Style?

Non-assoc. stuff is ok when it's something you're never going to change (e.g. standard details), but for production work, it drives me crazy when I have to move multiple things or move and unmove and re-move 2 things. Besides, defaults just make things go faster when it comes to justification. The problem with left justfied on the left side is that you don't get a clean edge to line up with (most of the time) when wrappign text. That's why I go default.

[matt.bellenoit]

We try to use Top-Left on all our callouts and I actually enforce the associative leader rule... it's written in our CAD manual that ALL dimensions are to be associative (with certain exceptions) leaders included... and if I find a drawing that wasn't done then I make the Drafter change it... doesn't make me popular but it helps keep the drawings uniform... another one that drives me crazy is we have people here that insist on adding the hook-line manually instead of using the default AutoCAD setting we have of .18... so when you move the text it creates a jog in the leader instead of keeping it nice and clean... One other pet peeve is why can't AutoCAD let you Top-Left justify dimensions! especially radius and diameters... they are basically a leader on steroids... but if you need to add a second line is automatically throws it into the middle!!

[tedg]

It all peeves me when it doesn't look right.

Isn't that horizontal distance part of the Text Style?

Non-assoc. stuff is ok when it's something you're never going to change (e.g. standard details), but for production work, it drives me crazy when I have to move multiple things or move and unmove and re-move 2 things. Besides, defaults just make things go faster when it comes to justification. The problem with left justfied on the left side is that you don't get a clean edge to line up with (most of the time) when wrappign text. That's why I go default.

I'm all for defaults when they suit our needs. We don't have an actual policy at our office on how text is to be justified. I could be convinced to do it your way. I don't think it is "less productive" the way I do it, I may be wrong.

I have seen it done "well" the way you wrote about, but no one in our office does it that way. It's worse than that, not only do they use all left justification, the don't even line up the edges in the same detail so they're all over the place.

I come from the board drafting days and all text was left justified and aligned (on either side of a feature) for a nice clean look.

As far as the word wrapping thing, I was referring to mtext with "no width" assigned to it. If you don't assign a width to it, either by qleader or other means, you can type in one straight line for ever until you hit "return". So what happens is someone types a bunch of text and "returns" when they want to go to the next line. It looks fine, but if you need to move it and change the shape of it from like say 2 long lines of text to 4 shorter lines of text, you can't just stretch it to a skinnier column of mtext. You will need to get into the mtext and backspace the "returns". This can happen with a width assigned to the mtext or not. I think it's inexperience in the office.

Thanks for listening
Ted

[jaberwok]

I use left justified text everywhere when annotating details etc.
If the text is to the left of the feature, the arrow is at the middle bottom line of text. If the it's on the right, the arrow is at the middle of the top line of text.

I agree.


Don't even get me started about word wrap on mtext. I like to have it automatically wrap so if I need to adjust it, I can just grab a grip and stretch it. We have some people in our office that do a "hard return" when they create mtext. So if you need to adjust it later you need to get into the mtext and manipulate it.

Does that bug anyone else out there? It's one of my pet peeves!
I agree. If you're going to use a feature (mtext in this case) then use it properly - not half-and-half.
Personally, I prefer dtext but that's another story.

[StephenJ]

For notes have always justified my text on the left. I think it harder to read notes when the text is justified on the right and it looks sloppy. I may center justify text if it is room name on a plan but that is about it. Also notes should align vertically. I think it looks messy when the notes dont align.

I was taught that leaders are on the top left (beginning of note) if the leader is to the left of the text and bottom right (end of note) if the leader is to the right of the text.

Now for Mtext and DText. I like that Mtext will wrap my text and I can copy the text so the width stays the same. I don't like that Mtext and its grips wont allow me to space my text equally when I start a new note. If you are going to hard return Mtext then use DText. With DText I like the uniformity. I can type notes and have a equal space between notes. I could type DText and then enter return a few times when typing and I would leave one blank line of text between notes. The space was the same every time and with Mtext I have to eye the spacing.

[ekubaskie]

This is one of the aspects of AutoCAD I've never been able to figure out. It has been almost 35 years since "Architectural Graphics Standards" taught me how to do leaders. It seems that most of you read it, too. How come nobody at AutoDesk ever did?

[r.grandmaison]

This is one of the aspects of AutoCAD I've never been able to figure out. It has been almost 35 years since "Architectural Graphics Standards" taught me how to do leaders. It seems that most of you read it, too. How come nobody at AutoDesk ever did?LOL! I can't tell you how many times I've asked myself that question! I just tried to look it up in AGS, but can't actually find it, but CAN find plenty of "bad examples" in the book I'm looking at (Eighth Edition)...can you find the actual edition/page that demonstrates good leader technique?

[H.Hunter]

This is one of the aspects of AutoCAD I've never been able to figure out. It has been almost 35 years since "Architectural Graphics Standards" taught me how to do leaders. It seems that most of you read it, too. How come nobody at AutoDesk ever did?They just need to expand the dim style settings to include a "Leaders" tab where we can predefine these things per style. This way everything will auto-justify, set default mtext widths, etc.

I smell a wish coming on!

[Opie]

I smell a wish coming on!
That's not what you are smelling. :p

[H.Hunter]

That's not what you are smelling. :pShouldn't you have put that here? (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=29253) ;)