New User - Firm pondering ADT to Revit switch

[mzabritski1926]

Hi,

I just found this forum and look forward to getting some good info here. I've been looking at some recent demos of ADT 2005 and Revit. Both are impressive since we are still running ADT 3.3 in our office. We will be upgrading our software later this year and I'm now wondering if this is the time to jump over to BIM world.

It really looks like there would be a lot of benefits, especially to our firm since we also are a design / build firm. Using the information model all the way through construction is appealing. I know this is a Revit board so everyone here will be very pro Revit. We have several people in the office who are also pro Revit (myself included) even though we have never used the program. The management of the firm has stated that they are committed to use the best technology around and try to lead the local field in technology.

I have heard from Autodesk that Revit is the future. I've heard from other architects who say that the construction industry is headed in this direction. (Saw a presentation from a firm who doesn't even use traditional drawings on some projects - everything is 3D model based). In the end, we are just trying to decide whether to jump over to Revit or stay with ADT. If the industry is truely headed in this direction, it really seems to make sense to do it sooner rather than later. My one question is: Are there any types of projects that Revit has trouble with? Residential? Commercial? Rennovations? etc...

Any other thoughts on the subject?

Thanks,
Michael

[sbrown]

Do a search on this site for ADT vs REvit and Archicad and you will find all the info you need. This question comes up about 2 times a month or so, so there are many threads about this topic. In the end it boils down to Revit was built as a BIM. ADT has been trying to rebuild autocad as a BIM and it can't really do it. Thats why adsk bought Revit. This isn't to say ADT doesn't have good features or a user base that is productive with it. I just believe the foundation for REvit is better, therefore it will be the winner in the long run.

[bmadsen]

My one question is: Are there any types of projects that Revit has trouble with? Residential? Commercial? Rennovations? etc...

In my experience with Revit (and many other business changes) is that the problem isn't with the project type. It is with the type of attitudes (or ways of thinking) that exist within the organization.

It appears you have support for new technology [and Revit specifically] at multiple levels in the organization. Soooo -- Just do it. Start a pilot project to see if it works in your environment.

[mzabritski1926]

Hi,

Thanks. I've read many of the posts you describe. What I'd like to know is the general feeling of people here. Are users and firms switching over? At a recent demo, 2 demonstrations were given, one for ADT 2005 and one for Revit 6. While the ADT demo had a good crowd, the Revit demo was packed. However, in the ADT demo, a show of hands indicated that about half were using ADT, the other half Autocad. In the Revit demo, no one was using Revit yet.

Magic 8 ball question: If we change over, will we be that much further ahead than everyone else, or will we be buying into a system that never really takes off? Will we be able to find new employees that have an idea how to use the software? Right now we have a hard time finding ADT experience in new employees (students, recent grads), but at least most have an Autocad background. I know there is no correct answer to these questions, but to those that use Revit, what is everyone's feeling? Is it THAT much better than other solutions that it will be the clear choice? Are there areas of the program that would be great if only they weren't so hard to use (ADT's dynamic sections / elevations - at least in ADT 3.3)?

Thanks

[rodneyf]

Our office is in the stages of training 33 people on Revit and we will be starting all new projects on Revit starting July this year. From the first set of training classes people are saying things like; "Can we start using this program now!" and "This is so cool!". Mind you our office had already had training on ADT3.3 and we did 3 projects on it and every one that was using ADT complained to upper management that it was to complicated and backwards thinking that our office abandoned it and went back to ACADr14 and Softdesk 8. Please understand that Revit fits our office enviroment and we do Residential(from small to large custom homes, multifamily both single story to multistory) and Commercial (Clubhouses, Office buildings, Restaruants, and other types to come real soon). I am very confident that we will be successful on Revit in the near future. As far as finding someone that knows Revit it should not be that difficult to train someone to use it to your companies standards. I have done a pilot projects on all the competitors software (Allplan, Arris, ArchiCAD, and Bentley's architectural program) and Revit was far easier to learn and be productive much quicker that I could not believe it that then and only then did I recommend it to upper managment.

Hope This Helps,

[PeterJ]

Will we be able to find new employees that have an idea how to use the software? Right now we have a hard time finding ADT experience in new employees (students, recent grads), but at least most have an Autocad background.

I think most people here who have tried recruiting Revit skilled staff will tell you that it is a tough call. I am trying to do it right now and I am finding it impossible to find staff with the right experience, however, it is my view that someone with or without AutoCAD exerience can pick up Revit pretty quickly and become productive earlier oin their use of the package than the same person using other software to which they come afresh. As an interesting aside, which may be compelling to some, here, in the UK, salary expectations are higher for those with good AutoCAD skills than others, so if you have to buy in new unskilled Revit staff, don't choose the AutoCAD skilled ones.

[Scott D Davis]

so if you have to buy in new unskilled Revit staff, don't choose the AutoCAD skilled ones.

Problem is, you spend the money training them, and then they discover they are VERY valuable....somewhere else!

[hand471037]

I used to Teach AutoCAD. And now I Teach Revit.

In a three day class, I was lucky to have my students be able to draw a bathtub by the end.

In my three day Revit class, they have drawn an entire Building, in 3D, and some details and such. ;)

And I've found those with lots of AutoCAD background actually can take longer to learn Revit than those without, for they spend a lot of time 'unlearning' and fighting with Revit before they get there heads around it.

Also those with more contruction experance seem to do better with Revit than those that haven't ever put a building together.

One thing to serously consiter is the fact that most CAD tools make it so that only a small subset of people within your office can really aid in the drawing production, because the tools are too complex to be accessible to everyone. Revit, and it's ease of use, really flattens out that curve in the office of CAD ability, such that I used to grab Admin people at the firm I used to work at and have them help out on schedules in Revit, picking up Redlines. They would have no idea how to do CAD, no idea that the changes they were making in the schedule were effecting the Building as a whole, but they new Excel, and I could give them data to enter or changes to make, and then get back to work. And make more money, because there billable rate was much lower than mine, so I wasn't burning up fee having a experance CAD user doing 'gruntwork'. Also if the senior people in the firm have a hand in reviewing and approving your office's custom content, then you can capture some of their knowlege for all to use, rather than having them make the same redmarks to the same mistakes on every project before it goes out the door...

just some stuff to think about.

[mzabritski1926]

Jeffrey,

That's a pretty valid point that could really be helpful. A couple of additional questions (for everyone)

1. Does Revit use a network license (install on as many computers as you would like to but only use it up to the number of purchased liceses)?

2. I've been reading the ArchiCAD forums. They pointed out numerous times that most Revit projects need AutoCAD to finish up the drawings. Can Revit be used all the way through the CD phase? Or rather does it work well when used all the way through CDs?

[Steve_Stafford]

Yes and YES...that's Archicad marketing hopping on an Autodesk marketing bridging strategy to help firms to transition to Revit. It was a valid statement with the very early releases (1-2) of Revit, but no more.

[cgrover]

I just started my own firm and am using Revit exclusively. I find the ability to show a client at any point and time, any view and make changes on the fly incredibly valuable. I get a lot of the WOW factor and just smile knowing that the software is doing the work for me. Also, with a forum such as ZD, the knowledge and help are only a few keystrokes away.

grover

[Marek Brandstatter]

Revit - if correctly implemented - is *guaranteed* to *exceed* your expectations.

Here are some of my favourite Revit quotes:

"With apologies to Jon Landau, I have seen the future of architectural graphics software and its name is Revit." Jim C

I see Revit as the Holy Grail of the CAD world. After all, people don't believe me when I preach the Revit gospel because it seems too good to be true. mlgatzke

The running joke with Revit is "Don't let our clients know its this easy! They will wonder what we do with all of our time!" Scott Davis

I can do with Revit in 10 hours what others can only dream of doing with CAD programs in 10 days. I think Sigmund Freud would call this "productivity envy". mlgatzke :lol:

It's the first CAD progam I've ever worked with that I actually looked forward to using. It's the first CAD program I've ever worked with that I doodle with for fun. It's the first CAD program that makes me feel like I can do *more* than I was ever able to do before, and have the end result look better too. jeffrey mcgrew

I love Revit because it is actually fun. It is fun to design with Revit. It is fun to build with Revit. It is fun to learn more about Revit. Revit has actually made my professional life more enjoyable. Greg Cashen

I honestly just wanted to 'share the joy'. I've been doing this for a lot of years and Revit has really given me an enthusiasm injection in the last year. HCSL

Our firm has been using revit since release 1 and pushing its limits daily. The program is just AWESOME. It has made my life at work much more enjoyable. sbrown

I've been working in architecture for 8 years. It wasn't until last year when I found Revit that I found designing buildings much more enjoyable. Christopher Zoog

I love Revit because it offers the most compelling ROI (Return On Investment) of any tool we have used here. It is amazing how proficient you can become in a short time. I can produce more aesthetic, better detailed drawings in less time with Revit. Greg Cashen

Sometimes, you need to go back to your "old cad" software ( as I've just been forced to do on a resurrected project ) to realise just how good Revit is. Beegee

Then came Revit, and I was initially attracted to it's elevation and sectioning abilities, but what really hooked me was the complete bi-directional association of all data in the model. Sections, elevations, plans, rcps, 3d views, details, schedules, cost reports, were just different ways of "looking" at the same data--Data that you create (AND CHANGE!!) graphically in any of the aforementioned views is always consistent, all the time...no if, ands, or buts... Christopher Zoog

Another small 1 man shop that had been working with ADT switched to Revit. He was doing ok in ADT laying out plans and such, but not doing any 3D. After and 8 hour training session with me, he had his first projects substantially complete in less than 2 weeks. This person actualy sent me a thank you note making it sound as if I had cured cancer. Aaron Rumple

ADT took me a grueling 3 months of intensive study and practice to really get up to speed - It has taken me about 2 weeks on Revit to get to the same level of proficiency Now that I am using Revit, just thinking about all those styles, display sets and all that other **** just makes me break out in a cold sweat. ADT is truly the ugly sister to Revit. Scott Davis :lol:

[Richard McCarthy]

Magic 8 ball question: If we change over, will we be that much further ahead than everyone else, or will we be buying into a system that never really takes off? Will we be able to find new employees that have an idea how to use the software? Right now we have a hard time finding ADT experience in new employees (students, recent grads), but at least most have an Autocad background. I know there is no correct answer to these questions, but to those that use Revit, what is everyone's feeling? Is it THAT much better than other solutions that it will be the clear choice? Are there areas of the program that would be great if only they weren't so hard to use (ADT's dynamic sections / elevations - at least in ADT 3.3)?

Thanks


Revit wasn't much of a learning curve to be honest. 1 week of on job and 1 month later, you pretty much know what you need to know. (any other question, come in here and ask :)
I pretty much pickup Revit by myself and with the generous help of this forum, but honestly, I think anyone who can handle AutoCAD can handle Revit. So, if you are looking for employee, I think the best is to have "some" autoCAD background (not essential..) but have GOOD construction and building knowledge because Revit makes you think more like a builder (cos it's object oriented)


In another word, (and in true Y Generation street talk)

"REVIT is da b0mb! it simply r0x0r! "

So, marek, like to add my quote to your quote-o-rama? ;)

[DavidCSinohui]

:!: What is the stamina of this product? We all want to know

Is the Government utilizing Revit? What percentage of the overall Industry in the US are actually using Revit at its fullest capabilities? Will Revit become interoperable, IFCx2 compliant?

Inquiring minds want to know

[gregcashen]

:idea: I have heard all the loud sounds about Revit, But does the sound travel in distance? What is the stamina of this product? We all want to know. Is the Govenment utllizing Revit? How much percentage of the overall Industry in the US are actually using Revit at its fullest capabilities? Will Revit become interoperable, IFCx2 compliant? This mind would like to know... :?

David, I see you are in Roseville and I assume that is Roseville, CA. If so, you are in luck in that you have a great reseller in your area, AEC Technologies, who can show you the benefits of Revit and address your questions directly. I work closely with my sales rep and she is active here. Her name is Abigayle, and you can find her here if you do a search for AbigayleAEC.

As far as I know, both the General Services Admin. and the CDF or Parks Dept. are both using Revit in CA. Talk to her for more info.

As for IFC, there has been much speculation, but it has been brought up that no BIM program is truly IFC compliant because of the competing implementations or something. I don't know much about it. Ask Jeffrey McGrew, also with AEC Tech. He has commented on this prior to his involvement with AEC and is pretty unbiased for a reseller/AE. As for the stamina, I have often felt and seldom said that even if Revit were to get dropped today, I would still have my license and could still produce better drawings in less time than with Autocad. So, worst case is nothing is lost. Best case...well, it's autodesk, so market domination, industry standard and best of breed are all phrases that come to mind... ;)

[Steve_Stafford]

My personal opinions follow your questions...


What is the stamina of this product? We all want to know...
Just fine...a long distance runner... How's yours? :wink:


Is the Government utilizing Revit?
Which branch(es), Does it, should it really matter? It shouldn't (because to impose a sole software reqm't would be anti-business :D ) but since "they" have been using dwg and dgn for ages, Revit can provide either should they require it.


What percentage of the overall Industry in the US are actually using Revit at its fullest capabilities?
Tough question, unless you commission a survey and get 100% participation how can anyone answer that? But, those that are using Revit are more likely to be using it fully than many of the other products available...


Will Revit become interoperable, IFCx2 compliant?
I imagine so...it is in some ways already...IFC's, perhaps...I wonder what are you doing or using now that actually uses IFC's?

Sounds like you've heard the Archicad, "What to ask the other guys list" :wink: