Even more legend issues

[patricks]

I saw someone on here mention using a legend for wall types. I had never thought of doing this before so I tried it. I placed a section view of a wall type in the legend view. Now the first issue is that it asks you to define a host length, but no matter what I type in it seems to default to 3 feet. Why doesn't it just have 3 feet in there to begin with? The only way to change the length is to click the wall and open the properties box.

Another issue is that when I tried putting a metal stud wall detail component over the wall type representation, I couldn't snap to or align to anything in the wall type.

So it seems to me that it's pretty much useless to do it this way. Guess I'll resort back to using our regular drafting view for wall types.

[bowlingbrad]

As for host length, just don't type enter. Wierd, yes, but that's how it works.

As for detail components, you're right. We use a wall schedule and have a slew of standard details in a drafting view.

[DanielleAnderson]

I saw someone on here mention using a legend for wall types. I had never thought of doing this before so I tried it. I placed a section view of a wall type in the legend view. Now the first issue is that it asks you to define a host length, but no matter what I type in it seems to default to 3 feet. Why doesn't it just have 3 feet in there to begin with? The only way to change the length is to click the wall and open the properties box.

Another issue is that when I tried putting a metal stud wall detail component over the wall type representation, I couldn't snap to or align to anything in the wall type.

So it seems to me that it's pretty much useless to do it this way. Guess I'll resort back to using our regular drafting view for wall types.

On my last project I did end up using a legend for wall types, but the PA was so unhappy with it graphically that that particular page got exported and suped up in autocad. I was very sad, I wanted to triumph, but alas...if you can't get it to look the way it needs to, it doesn't serve the purpose. I also don't understand why you can't snap to elements in a wall legend, seems like that would be a good idea.

[stuntmonkee]

We have the same issues, and so we scrapped the idea of using legends for the wall types.

Another issue I have found is that if you add a revision cloud to a legend, it won't be picked up by the revision manager on the sheet. So for legend information & schedules, you have to place the revision buble directly on the sheet.

J

[rodneyf]

I am having similar issues as patricks and because of this I have decided to just draw the walls in a drafting view. I think we should be able to dimension to the core and to all the finish layers also. What does everyone else do for their wall types in section?

[morganp]

Some architecture firms like to draw a diagrammatic wall types legend. But, other firms like to present their wall types legend as a detail sheet. This raises (at least) three questions:


1. Why is it that REVIT can only create a simplistic wall types diagram; not a fully-detailed wall types legend on a sheet?

2. Also, why is it not possible to edit the material type properties of a wall from the wall types legend?

3. Why are the wall types legend components neither true model components nor true drafting components?

[Steve_Stafford]

The short answer is...because, that's the way it is right now. :smile:

All families are represented as symbols in legends. They are trying to prevent a legend's elements increasing the number of real elements in the project. You don't want them showing up in a schedule.

Because they are a symbol they lack the full feature set available for real objects. In a past release they extended some of the capabilities for component families so we could at least dimension them. There a bunch of things that need to be done to make legends really work well though.

All that negativity aside, you can still draft exactly what you want in a legend view, lines, dimensions, notes etc. The ideal is that least legends are not usually redrawn all the time and once in your template you don't really need to mess with them.

Between the ideal and reality is where we are right now.

There are a number of different approaches mentioned here and in other threads if you aren't happy with the legend tool itself. Hopefully it will get well deserved attention.

[ron.sanpedro]

The short answer is...because, that's the way it is right now. :smile:

All families are represented as symbols in legends. They are trying to prevent a legend's elements increasing the number of real elements in the project. You don't want them showing up in a schedule.


Steve,
do you have a sense of some technical reason why an item in a Legend couldn't be a fully functioning item, and Schedules just never count anything in a Legend? It seems like this would address the need for schedule accuracy while also making Legends a great thing, rather than a frustrating thing.

The other aspect of Legends I would like to see added, along with fully functioning tags and dimensions and such is the ability to toggle a Legend between three states; Manual, Building and File. Manual is like now, you discretly add items to the legend. Building means the Legend automatically includes the specified family types that are actually in use in the building. Delete the last of a particular wall type and it drops out of the legend. File shows all examples of the particular family in the file, in use or not. In this way, I can have a Wall Types Legend that is BIMish in being coordinated with what is actually in use in the building, and this goes on the sheet. But I also can have a Working Legend which is automatically coordinated with what Wall Types I have available in the file, in use or not.

This is another one of those situations where Revit says Hey, I am BIM, but not HERE. HERE you are in CAD. That makes me sad. ;) I want to be in a BIM environment all the time.

Best,
Gordon

[morganp]

This is another one of those situations where Revit says Hey, I am BIM, but not HERE. HERE you are in CAD. That makes me sad. ;) I want to be in a BIM environment all the time.

Best,
Gordon


Agreed . . . legend components need to be "doctored up" with drafting elements.

It would be nice if drafting lines/components and dimesions would at least snap to the edges of the legend components. Then a more integrated, hybrid drawing (wall types legend) could be created.

[Wes Macaulay]

You can eyeball up all the detail components on top of legend components and roll along just fine. The deal killer might be -- how much are you changing the wall types around? If you must have it as an automatic process, then you can do the pre-Revit-8 workaround by having a future phase called Legends and putting all walls,windows,doors,floors,etc. into the future (where it won't mess up your schedules) and then tags work and everything. Then you have plan, section and elevation views that look at all the building components. The only place where this fails is curtain walls -- elevation callouts have to suffice in these cases.

On most of the projects I work on construction assembly types change daily as new conditions are discovered. We could use legend views, but we're kind of getting addicted to automation ;-)

[ron.sanpedro]

On most of the projects I work on construction assembly types change daily as new conditions are discovered. We could use legend views, but we're kind of getting addicted to automation ;-)

So wouldn't you want to have Legends that where actually useful BIM tools, rather than glorified CAD tools in a BIM application? I know there are workarounds, but I am hoping that eventually we will have a lot fewer workarounds, and a lot more time spent working on buildings. ;)

Gordon

[Wes Macaulay]

This would be why tagging of legend components is on the wishlist. ;-)

[david.metcalf]

Careful, we may well end up of a job when true BIM is achived and the model draws itself based on encoded IBCO, UBC NEC, ASHRA paramters.

[cphubb]

You can always use the pre-legend method. Create a phase after your last phase called legend. Draw your walls here. They will tag adjust and everything else. You can even place doors in them for door elevations etc. I know this is a workaround and that the legend tool is supposed to replace this. But just look at the poor Archicad users who have to create Story 24 to draw all their details legend and such because the do not have multiple views, only layers