Revit for UK drawings and construction

[dg]

I am keen to move into parametric design and to upgrade from ADT to Revit, Allplan or ArchiCad.

I've asked a few questions on both the Allplan and ArchiCad forums, so now I'm afraid it is the turn of you guys!

I'm in the UK, and mainly do domestic and smaller commercial work for planning and building regs approval.

Having had an initial look and seen a demo of each product, I'm now planning to try each one to see if I can get along with software and if it really does do what the sales reps say it will.

I've moved on from the "will it do this, will it do that stage", and so I am going along with the premise that each of the three will essentially meet my needs. So its coming down to how each one will cope with the fundamentals of UK drawings.

I've read about the cavity closing (wall wraps) at reveals issue, but are there any other specific issues that Revit has with producing drawings for the UK market?

I'm demo'ing Revit at the moment, and found it very easy to get started with the basics, but am a bit stumped when it comes to putting in the details - but perhaps thats just my lack of knowledge of the software.

As an example, I can't seem to find how to make a cavity wall with the [UK] insulation hatch! I can get every other hatch except insulation :-/

So, for you other UK users, are there any particular issues that I should know about?

Finally (for now), I am very impressed by the roof timber modelling that both Allplan and ArchiCad can do. Can Revit do a similar thing with the automatic placing of rafters, purlins, hips etc?

cheers

[PeterJ]

I guess I am your competition or perhaps peer.

I use Revit exclusively now and it does all I need. With a little thought I can overcome the wall wrap issue you mention. Insulation batting can be drawn in using a tool that exists for this, but I generally only do so in large scale details (1:20 and above). I think this is the pattern found in other software packages. Detailing is quick and easy but does require some initial effort to build your own library of detail items etc., however the detail components are reusable so the effort is not duplicated.

Revit does not have an automatic roof framing tool and I am not sufficiently familar with the other software to comment on the usability of the function.

[Martin P]

Hi DG

have you had a look at this?

you need to right click and download it, left click wont work - you will also need autodesks DWF viewer, free, small download

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3233

I am in the UK and been using Revit for 2.5 years now, and havent looked back.

To answer a couple fo your queries - You cant get the insulation to show as "batting" type lines, a Hexagonal hatch is ok though - I have one if you want it, drawing batting lines over is what I do though it looks better and it doenst take long.

Walls wraps at inserts, unless its pretty basic dont bother - you can draw a detail of exactly what you want at the inserts using hatches etc and have revit place them every time you put in a window or door, you just need to learn a little about creating families first - for exaple we do all timber frames, my windows add 2 No 147x47mm studs either side and a 50x50mm cavity closer, plasterboard returns etc.....it may sound like a pain but really it is far simpler and faster than trying to explain to a wall what it should do at inserts - this would apply to any CAD platform I'd imagine!!. in the file above all the windows had this detail added automatically.

I have heard about the truss thing in Archicad - nice toy I'm sure, but I can honestly say we NEVER really bother about trusses especially in housing - Contractor designed elements, BUT it is possible to create a parametric truss with Revit - I've never needed one yet.....

I can give you a good (well it is for me :wink: ) template file for uk type walls etc, this was my biggest bugbear when I first started, the template that comes with Revit may be much better now I dont know? I know that the windows and door families are much better. One you have your basic set of walls, floors and roofs in your template you really begin to fly.... once you have a few windows and doors you will be amazed how quick and easily you produce warrant and planning drawings (I also have electrical symbols etc you can have)

I dont know much about allplan, but we have an architect in our office who used Archicad for 2 years, after 4 weeks of Revit he preffered it. I think you will find many others here that would be the same.

Detailing is just a case of using hatches to over lay joints etc and blank bits out. Put the lines and notes where they ought to be and thats it really, its very easy really - same as anything else lines,circles hatches arrays etc etc. (repeat detail tool is pretty handy)


One of the other plus points of revit is this place :D (soon to be AUGI) we can talk to the developers, even founders of Revit and everybody wants to help each other out.

[Damo]

DG

My practice decided to get Revit towards the end of March this year, and promptly received Revit 6.0. About 2 weeks later I went on a 3 day training course organised by the reseller. I was only able to compete 1.5 days training and went back to the office with the course notes and the intention of getting stuck into a live project I had on my desk. Revit was so intuitive that 20 productive hours later I had produced working GA plans, sections and elevations that would have taken me 2 weeks on AutoCad to do. Remember, these 20 hours incorporated my own learning on the software. So my first point is that I am impressed with the way Revit works.

My second point is that the following week I received the 6.1 update, and was very pleased to see a considerable increase in UK specific content, more Metric families, doors, windows etc. (I hope this is an indication of things to come from AutoDesk, a realisation that there is a growing UK Revit base and that the UK / Metric content should continue to expand. AutoDesk, are you listening? Can you get major manufacturers to get their products ‘Revitised’, eg: Boulton & Paul for all their UK doors, windows and staircases, Armitage Shanks / Twyfords for their sanitaryware etc?).

We had another architect visit our office last week showing us some surveying equipment and software. Although he uses survey software called UDS[m2] he then imports this into AllPlan, which he used in his demonstration. I must admit, I was very impressed with AllPlan, especially the way he could generate any shape opening in a wall, make this void a window, add a frame with a few simple clicks and then add the fenestration in any combination of ways. This was all without getting involved in family creation, all on-the-fly. (Again, AutoDesk, if you are listening, get a copy of AllPlan and check this out. Whilst you are at it, I have seen the truss, purlin, feature in AllPlan and it’s simplicity was impressive. Revit 7 would be fantastic with this.)

If we had seen AllPlan before purchasing Revit, would we have still bought Revit?. Yes! Apart from AllPlan being about 1/3 more expensive, one crucial aspect for us was having 100% *.DWG compatibility and an industry standard company behind it, not only for our existing project files, but also for distribution with team consultants.

Finally, for support, this forum (and others) and the AutoDesk.revit newsgroup have been a great help when I’ve been stuck.

Hope this helps.

I’m now off to ask Martin P politely if I could avail of his wall type template ad electrical symbols :wink:

[rhys]

I agree completely. Don't worry too much about some of the things Revit doesn't seem to do well out of the box, work with it at first, and make do with slightly, less than perfect representations of GA's at 1:50. Detailing tools are fine. I started off with version 3 and managed to complete a 4 storey scheme of flats in 2 blocks. Content is better now but I still find the family editor difficult but powerful. So please Martin post your UK content before you fly off to sunnier climes. :lol:

[PeterJ]

the way he could generate any shape opening in a wall, make this void a window, add a frame with a few simple clicks and then add the fenestration in any combination of ways. This was all without getting involved in family creation, all on-the-fly. (Again, AutoDesk, if you are listening, get a copy of AllPlan and check this out. Whilst you are at it,

In a few clicks you can make an 'any' shape hole in a wall and in fill it with glazing and a frame around that. I would be an inplace family. In the majority of buildings the use of repetitive elements, as fostered by the family concept (hmmmm...no pun intended) is probably more useful.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

[quote:72f8f3946b="Damo"]the way he could generate any shape opening in a wall, make this void a window, add a frame with a few simple clicks and then add the fenestration in any combination of ways. This was all without getting involved in family creation, all on-the-fly. (Again, AutoDesk, if you are listening, get a copy of AllPlan and check this out. Whilst you are at it,

In a few clicks you can make an 'any' shape hole in a wall and in fill it with glazing and a frame around that. I would be an inplace family. In the majority of buildings the use of repetitive elements, as fostered by the family concept (hmmmm...no pun intended) is probably more useful.[/quote:72f8f3946b]

Without getting too hung up on this one issue, this is very easy to do as a 'representation' in Revit. No need to use an in place family at all. Cut the hole, fill it with curtain wall and divide to your hearts content. It will show in all views as 'window'. Not knowing how it's done in All Plan, whether you are actually creating a window that can be scheduled or not, I would suggest it's just as easy in Revit.

[dg]

Thanks for the replies.

My thinking is clouded by many years of 2d CAD use, and so I do have to appreciate a new way of working.

I am a bit finicky on the details though - even when I know that the print scale may not warrant the work I put into the design on screen. I think that must change.

I am very encouraged by the initial ease of use, this site, and the other Revit based resources. In particular, the increased UK content compared to the other competitors programs.

I also agree that once a component database is built up, then things should really fly.

I am a bit concerned though, as after further reading there does seem to be some rather fundamental issues that exist - such as using 'blank fill' to hide things, and also poor text handling. Perhaps these are just par for the course - I don't know, I am still learning. But if Revit is the MS Word of the CAD world, then my expectations were a bit higher. But perhaps that will change as I use it more.

Anyway, and this about sums up my predicament - on the hotest weekend of the year so far, guess who is stuck inside finishing some drawings - and 2d ones too :x

[rhys]

I hardly ever us a blank fill these days there are may other ways which you will learn as you follow the tutorials and this forum. 2D drafting is a joy compared with ........ Text well it could have some of the wish list items but compared with the coplexities of some alternatives it is quick and intuitive. There are also some clever ways of scheduling text notes.