How to build a wrap

[AP23]

I need to make a wrap like the two pictures composed out of several different layers. It has to be CDeed so i can't just use the paint tool for the inner and outer skin. In-place families is an option, but it is just one layer. Plus you can't use the repeating detail to show the layers in section.Wall by face is another option but also has some limitations. You can't get it to wrap upside down at the bottom. And I would need to create new hatch patterns that isn't easy to make.The only real option that will work is to use in_place families and export to AutoCAD to get it CDeed.

Any better suggestions?

[gbrowne]

Why do you have to export to autocad to CD it?

[thomas.pbb]

I did this with the wall b. face tool.

[AP23]

Why do you have to export to autocad to CD it?

An in-place family only consists out of 1 material. The wrap consists out of multiple layers (profile deck, isolation, c profile framing, metal stud etc). I would have to make an in-place generic family as thick as all the layers combined, then export a section view to AutoCAD and draft the different cut patterns. I can't do this in Revit because the warp is composed out of splines. I'm not able to pick the spline or offset it in a normal view to manually draft the layer boundaries. And the repeating detail tool can't array along a curved path. A regular arc enables you to pick the arcs and use detail lines, but the surface you get with arcs when you blend it is horrible. So therefore I need to use the spline tool to get a smooth transition from base to top.

The advantages of the wall by face tool is that you can use a predefined compound wall. However, I'm not sure if you can really customize hatch patterns to get it to look like a c profile that repeats after 2 feet or a profile deck. Also you can't vary the thickness of the wrap which you could do with an in-place generic family. BTW, the Wall by face will not work on the bottom part of the wrap so you will have to segment it. That is not really a big problem.

[patricks]

Why does it matter if it's one layer or multiple? I would think that would be something you show in wall sections, which are mostly going to be drafted anyway.

[jpolding]

First of all, COOL HOUSE! I think I'm going to re-learn how to skateboard just so I can live in a house like that.

Why wouldn't you just use wall by face and then use invisible lines to get rid of the seams?

[mschroeder]

Why is this so difficult? Make a floor and roof with the same wall layers (if that's actually what you want). Join geometry to clean up.

[Scott D Davis]

The "Red" house is the latest image from the ArchiCAD marketing promotions for AC 10. The Skateboard house was a competition-winning entry from one of our own AUGI members, Taylor Osborne, and was completely done in Revit. (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=23813)

I would make a Mass the shape you need, and apply Wall by Face to get a composite wall structure to wrap like that.

[Andre Baros]

Yawn... the one on the right was drawn in Revit, probably version 6 or 7, look it up in the gallery here on AUGI. The one from Archicad 10 could be drawn in about 1 hour, 2 if you really show all the details your talking about.

Here's a 20 minutes version, plus 10 minutes to screen capture and post. I used an in-place family for the structure and a standard roof for the "roof" so that I could see the layers in section. The separate structure should make detailing the ends easier and could go to structural for their analytical model. I didn't model the standing seam but in the 1 hour version you could add that.

[patricks]

^^^^ Did you do a separate in-place extrusion for each of the layers?

[Andre Baros]

No. A standard roof can be drawn using a profile line (second option, under roof by footprint) I used two objects because as a standard practice I model structure and shell separately. This has been there as long as I can remember and is much easier than using a mass for such a simple form. I'm working with masses more where math is driving the form not whim. In this wasn't a straight extrusion than it would be easiest to draw several in place families, one for each layer.

[AP23]

Doing a wrap by using extrusions with lines and arcs isn't that difficult. But doing the same with blends and splines is very painful. Like the examples given previously, you can build a wrap with in-place families and draft the layers in a wall section. You can build all the layers by doing extruding each layers and assigning it a material. And the most easiest is to make masses and apply a wall by face, roof by face and a roof by face with the same compound material. The situation gets a little bit complex when you do a blends with splines. an in-place family doesn't work well because, you can't make a closed loop with splines. Yo need to use an arc or straight line to close it but that will give you a distorted blend. Making masses and selecting the faces to make wall, roofs and floors works well, but the wall, or roof profile stays orthogonal. The profile doesn't stretch according to the mass boundaries. It is quite difficult to get it right.

[gbrowne]

Sorry, but still not understanding the need to export..

[mschroeder]

Doing a wrap by using extrusions with lines and arcs isn't that difficult. But doing the same with blends and splines is very painful.

Thanks for sharing images, it's looking interesting. I guess this is an academic exercise, not an actual project?
If you were to take this to the next logical step, to examine constructibility, materials etc., you may start analyzing the surface characteristics. This is when the rules based geometric modeling really keeps you out of trouble. Since you used spline curve blends, you can take advantage of the fact that they are ruled surfaces. So you can actually think to construct your curved envelope from segments of straight material, and apply a flexible finish materials (or a panelized system) to blend the curve. Even then you may choose to define a boundary between the roof, wall, and floor. They may appear the same but function very differently. The Roof needs to shed water, support equipment, reflect the suns radiation etc. While the wall and underside have different performance criteria. This may lead you to construct and detail them differently. Since they are now unique components, we can apply cost data to these assemblies, examine procurement options and in short make better decisions. At this stage you should move beyond concept modeling and move into construction modeling techniques.

Keep posting your progress,
Michael