Engineers to Draftsman ratio in your office [Archive]

SRBalliet

2006-05-03, 12:02 PM

I would like to know what is your office or firms ratio of engineers to draftsman is. We are a Civil firm that is quite busy with:

2 Principals
12 Engineers
1 Head Surveyor
2 Man Field Crew
4 Draftsman

And in the next few weeks we are bringing on:

3 More Engineers
1 Intern Engineer

The reason for my question is that with the 4 draftsman we sometimes have a hard time making a full day billable. Are we working to fast or are the engineers to slow?

clarkrj

2006-05-03, 12:50 PM

We have a ratio of about 1.5:1 engineers to designers and we are burried all the time. We design and build refrigeration and compression packages and each designer is responcible for several projects at a time.

Keeps us busy and off the streets.

julie_tirone

2006-05-03, 12:57 PM

We're a Federal government institution with 2 draftspersons, 25 local engineers and about the same for technicians in regional facilities across the country.
Many of the engineering staff use ACAD LT for producing sketches and preliminary drawings which the CAD department finalizes into official drawings once the dust has settled.

Augi Doggie

2006-05-03, 01:43 PM

I do Civil work here in Central Florida. It seems like most companies around here average about 2-5 engineers per 1 CAD person.

This is usually due to the fact that a lot of Civil Engineers are learning CAD while in college. I gives them more ability to do the design in CAD and hand it off the the Designer/CAD Drafter to complete.

Brian Myers

2006-05-03, 05:52 PM

The reason for my question is that with the 4 draftsman we sometimes have a hard time making a full day billable. Are we working to fast or are the engineers to slow?

Perhaps neither? If you are hiring on more Engineers it sounds as if one of two things are happening:

1) You have too many drafters.
or
2) (Often more likely) Your Engineers simply don't know when to hand off the work to the less expensive employees and move on to the next project.

dfarris75

2006-05-03, 05:59 PM

we have 4 engineers and 1 eit.
3 drafters (1 seasoned = me and 2 new ones right out of school who are learning the ropes)

tedg

2006-05-03, 07:38 PM

Without actually counting..we have (about)
5 Architects
4 Mechanical Engineers
5 Structural Engineers (+ 1 EIT)
4 Civil Engineers (+3 EIT)

6 people in our Survey Crew w/ (3) Licensed surveyors

2 Architectural Designer/Drafters
2 Architectural Drafters
2 Structural Designers/Drafters
4 Civil Designer/Drafters
2 Miscellaneous Drafters that do allot of Civil and red line work

(I'm one of the Structural Designer/Drafters but do allot of Architectural work too)

Plus we have construction managers, administration, office support blah, blah.
About 60 people in all. The owner of the company is a Civil Engineer too.

We're all really busy and usually very billable. The biggest problem we have is planning ahead. Sometimes we put out fires that could have been avoided by better planning and labor structure.

Ted

paddymackey

2006-05-04, 11:52 AM

Are we working to fast or are the engineers to slow?
Engineers always work too slow. :)

We've about 400 people in the office here (and another 100 odd across the road in rented offices) and I don't know how many designers are here never mind engineers.
From experience in smaller companies in the pharmaceutical industry over the last few years the ratio usually worked out to be around 2 designers / drafters to each engineer.

mikesal

2006-05-04, 02:11 PM

Telecom - 4
Mechanical - 6
Civil - 10
Electrical - 13 hiring 3 more
Engineering Assistants - 9
Technicians - 15
Project & Construction Managers - 9 hiring 3 more

Drafters - 9
Surveyors - 2

.chad

2006-05-04, 02:53 PM

2 (registered) architects
2 (non-registered) intern architects
1 drafter (not sure if she has a B.Arch equiv degree or not)
1 (non-registered) architect starting monday
1 intern starting monday
engineering is sub-contracted out

as small as the office is, we are all drafters, designers, managers etc.

Olaf.Banckaert

2006-05-04, 03:04 PM

Here we have:
17 engineers/salesman
7 drafters/designers
1 Technical (standard constructions) Surveyor
1 Technical (special Industrial constructions) Surveyor
1 on-site Technician

Baron Blades

2006-05-04, 03:40 PM

4 electrical engineers
1 mechanical engineer (doubles as a drafter)
1 drafter

and that's just in our department. The ratio varies throughout the company. We stay busy though, since we don't work only on what the engineers are doing. We also support the other departments as they need drawings created/modified, and we also do most of the artwork for our products even though there is supposedly an art department somewhere around here...

GreyHippo

2006-05-04, 05:01 PM

We have:
7 Professional Engineers
5 Designers
5 Drafters
2 Surveyors
1 Registered Architect

1 Cadd Manager / Designer / Drafter / Surveyor / Inspector / IT Support / Server Administrator

You can probably guess which position I have

robert.1.hall72202

2006-05-05, 12:44 PM

Most associates are engineers in my office.
I think there are 4 draftsman out of a department of 30some.

andy.manninen

2006-05-05, 02:58 PM

we have about 95 employees in my office, about 10 draftsmen, 5 super draftsmen/designers, and the rest are engineers or EIT's, with a smattering of about 5 office personnel and 3 IS guys. Allot of our engineers and EIT's use AutoCAD every day though so the ratios do not seem tipped to bad. It seems as if 1 drafter to 3 engineers or EIT's is about right.

FYI: I'm a super draftsmen/designer myself, so i CAD and engineer, sometimes at the same time! Gasp! lol!
:Cheers:

r.grandmaison

2006-05-05, 04:42 PM

Structural engineering firm (residential, commercial, etc.)

5 Principle Engineers
10 Associate Engineers
7 CAD Operators
1 Field Rep
4 Admin Staffers

Jordan Truesdell

2006-05-05, 05:17 PM

One engineer, one part time drafter (nearly full time). I (the engineer) can't keep my drafter busy full time on directly billable projects (mostly due to inexperience in his field - I spend more time with a pencil than he spends on the screen, anything less and I'm stading at his desk while answering questions while he drafts). As he gets betterm I will spend less time on my part, and it will take him more time to do his part and we'll meet somewhere in the middle.

2:1 seems about right for heavy design, 4:1 for those doing consulting. I know of an office with two engineers and 2 drafters. One of the engineers can keep the drafters busy all day with 4 hours of work - which is all he does, then he goes out to shoot hoops or grab a beer.

One imbalance comes with newer engineers which prefer to do CAD, instead of concentrating on the engineering. The thing to concentrate on is whether the work you're doing justifies your billable rate. Engineers are no faster than CAD techs, but bill 2x (or more). So if you want the office to be more efficient, tell the engineers to put down the mouse and pick up a pencil.

Just make sure that the CAD side of the equation is up to snuff. It's not helpful to make the engineer spend 30 careful minutes over a pencil so you can put it in CAD in 10, and then stand over his desk while he redlines it up. Add the calculations to the mix, and it might take 10 engineers to keep a cad person busy. And it really would be busy work, since in that amount of time an engineer can create the detail from scratch in CAD.

A good CAD operator knows as much as the engineer about how stuff goes together, and can take the nastiest chicken-scratch on a piece of bumwad made in 5-6 minutes and turn it into a ready-for-final notation detail that the engineer can fill in and be done with. 10 minutes for the engineer, an hour in drafting. Take more time and the engineer can't do calcs to keep the project going and - yes, then the CAD guys will be spending time at AUGI instead of billing.

SRBalliet

2006-05-08, 11:16 AM

I think what Mr. Truesdell has said is what is happening in our office. We have six young engineers that like to have their noses in the CAD programs, possibly doing as much drafting as engineering.

Jordan Truesdell

2006-05-08, 12:29 PM

I think what Mr. Truesdell has said is what is happening in our office. We have six young engineers that like to have their noses in the CAD programs, possibly doing as much drafting as engineering.

And they don't even realize the problem, because they don't have a whiff of a clue about how business works. There are lots of ways to try and justify their CAD work, but most ignore the way the money comes in. When you bid a job, you estimate time - at least if you're going to estimate accurately, that is. Having a $75 or $85 engineer doing drafting work at a $45 or $55 billing rate (assuming they're really that good at drafting) means making less money, as does having drafters on overhead. It's a double loss. I know, we should all be free. Well, be free on your own time - on company time, you do what's efficient for the company.

<OT rant on how kids are taught deleted>

Pontoon

2006-05-08, 01:36 PM

No Idea how many engineers we have, but we have a maintenance team which look after 2 platforms & it's associated subsurface stuff as well as folk looking after a gas plant and southern north sea platforms too. (Think it must be about 30+(possibly up to 100 as I never know who is an engineer and who is a manager or a surveyor etc... ))
And there are only 2 folk in the building with CAD packages me and a GIS bloke... and I'm a doc controller.
We've got vendors to do all our project work and draughting... I try and get them to do the dull stuff right. Its amazing how many intelligent folk can't understand revision numbering...

jcfeeken

2006-05-10, 06:32 PM

Our company has 1 struct. engineer, 4 geotechs with two cad techs. I was the only cad tech for six years With a feast or famine work load we had to hire another cad tech. The only problem is some weeks the two of us barely get by while the next week is all paperwork and then onto solitaire. This arrangement still works better than holding up the field crew which costs thousands per day.

cunzner

2006-05-10, 08:30 PM

Pontoon

2006-05-11, 07:34 AM

First job at a Survey Co.
1 Civil/Owner
2 Engineers
1 Land Arch.
6 Drafters
3 Prof. Surveyors
3 Outside Grunts
and then I was the fill in for inside or outside. Whatever really need to be done.
I think that they used the techs more like mini-engineers and just had the actual Engineers double check the work before they signed off on it. Doing their work for half the price.
Think that is quite common here too. We let the vendors do the work and have the lead engineers here check the important stuff. It has even been known for me to do little mods (As a Doc controller this isn't part of my job, but any expierience is always good) then someone else checks them. Wish we did that for all our ad hoc mods, as then there wouldn't be a backlog of about 200 mods due to the vendor having a high turn over of staff and the usual politics of not having ctr's to book time to.

CADKitty

2006-05-12, 07:36 PM

Oh my goodness, let me think here...

6 electrical engineers
5 plumbing engineers
10 mechanical engineers
2 summer interns about to start
1 CADD Coordinator

The reason that this looks rather unbalanced? Because all of the engineers do their own drafting. Now that I'm here they'll pass off what they can to me, but they're used to having no one. That being said, I know of a firm with about 400 employees and they require the engineers to do redlines only and give them to the CADD department. It's all how the company chooses to operate.

RobertB

2006-05-14, 09:28 PM

This is a neat topic. Our ratio is 1 drafter per 6 designers/engineers. Most of our designers do their own CAD work, and ~33% of our engineers do their own CAD work.

pnorman

2006-05-15, 06:09 PM

We have 26 engineers/designers and 11 Drafters. The engineers do NOT do any drafting! Besides they wouldn't have time!
We are purely a structural engineering consulting office.

CGM

2006-05-15, 07:54 PM

Engineers always work too slow. :)Give a guy a break. Most of our draughtsmen, don't think at all. It's no wonder the Engineer's work takes longer, 'cos he's got to think for the rest of the team at the same time as doing his job

From experience in smaller companies in the pharmaceutical industry over the last few years the ratio usually worked out to be around 2 designers / drafters to each engineer.Here we've got 1 Engineer and 4 CAD drafters.

paddymackey

2006-05-17, 11:54 AM

Give a guy a break. Most of our draughtsmen, don't think at all. It's no wonder the Engineer's work takes longer, 'cos he's got to think for the rest of the team at the same time as doing his job
Here we've got 1 Engineer and 4 CAD drafters.
I'm just pulling the p***, it's one of my hobbies slagging off engineers. Just about every piping designer I know over here is the same, and so are the engineers are the same.

puckineh70

2006-05-25, 07:52 PM

were a small comapny but we have a 1:1 ratio the boss has his draftsman and the technition has his (ME) we generate a lot of work for a company this size usualy 3-4 condos goin on at once for just the 2 of use but it works pretty well were both fast

H-Angus

2006-05-26, 09:07 AM

Architectural Practice:

1 Designer/ Super Cadder
1 Architect/ Town Planner (Whats CAD?)
1 Architect/ CAD Dabbler
1 Designer/ Cadder
1 Trainee Architect/ Cadder
1 I've got college on tuesdays! Coffee maker/ Cadder
1 Part time receptionist (the bosses wife)

Listed in order of importance. :lol:

david_peterson

2006-05-26, 01:39 PM

21 PE's
3 Designers
5 drafters
2 offices
Our engineers don't usually touch CAD unless they have to.
When they do, they usually get slapped for not following the office standard so we (the Cad Techs) usually have to clean up the mess.

H-Angus

2006-05-26, 02:15 PM

21 PE's
When they do, they usually get slapped for not following the office standard so we (the Cad Techs) usually have to clean up the mess.

Yeah tell me about it.... what are layers again? I'd hate to think how much time we spend correcting our own drawings so that ctb/stb files make them print correctly, meet office standards, etc, slowly edumacating them though.

The VLG

2006-05-26, 04:09 PM

Yeah tell me about it.... what are layers again? I'd hate to think how much time we spend correcting our own drawings so that ctb/stb files make them print correctly, meet office standards, etc, slowly edumacating them though.
Approx. 33 Eng (including director & associates & PMs) 5 cads & myself I'm moving away from cad to more eng/design stuff. (in my department, not sure company wide)

We're fairly lucky most of the engies are o.k. on cad so we don't have too much faffing around to fix things & they tend to ask questions rather then just forging ahead if they don't know something, that said we always seem a little tight on resources as we are v busy at the mo.

jaberwok

2006-05-27, 08:26 AM

(engies) tend to ask questions rather than just forging ahead if they don't know something

Unlike some?
:-)

Doodlemusmaximus

2006-06-20, 08:43 AM

We have in my section

2 Princibles
7 Engineers
1 Technician (Me)
2 Connies
and one CAD Monkey

dmarx

2006-07-06, 02:11 PM

Most of our draughtsmen, don't think at all.

well then i think you have a problem with your draftsmen...

dmarx

2006-07-06, 02:15 PM

we do civil work with -

6 Engineers
2 E.I.T.
4 CAD guys
and 1 new cad guy.
1 office manager
1 full time secretary
1 part time secretary.

But our responsibilities as cad guys include most of the designing for a project. The engineers answer any questions that may arise and address any unusual circumstances.

jkendrick

2006-08-25, 01:11 PM

I'm a one man commercial fire alarm system show here. We also do some security, CCTV, access, etc.

I'm only a mere NICET certified engineering technician who worked his way up from coffee maker/blue-line machine operator to "engineer". They want to call me an engineer but pay me as a designer/draftsman.

My favorite phrase lately is, "fast, correct and cheap... pick two".

We hired a new warehouse guy who knows CAD but that causes me more interuptions than help when people come in my office looking for access to the warehouse.

I kind of wish I was back as a hourly draftsman, or that my company would get serious about this engineering department.

Maybe it's time to float the resume out there...

sschwartz85916

2006-08-25, 06:09 PM

stusic

2006-08-29, 05:45 PM

My favorite phrase lately is, "fast, correct and cheap... pick two".
I love it!

We have three offices...

Brunswick:
1 Mechanical Engineer
1 Electrical Engineer
0 CAD Ops

Atlanta:
4 Architects
2 CAD Ops

Macon:
3 Principles
1 Structural Engineer
4 Electrical Engineers
3 Industrial Engineers
4 Mechanical Engineers
1 Fire Protection Engineer
2 Plumbing Engineers
6 Drafters

So for our Macon office it's 3:1 Engineers/Drafters

jdbejk

2008-04-08, 02:57 PM

In my department we have:
4 engineers
1 draftsman

Ferroequine

2008-04-08, 03:29 PM

We try to maintain about a 1:1 ratio. However, our engineers do engineering, and most of our projects (oil & gas) are done in 3D. We don't really employ "drafters" per se, they are all designers.

jmctamney

2008-04-08, 05:16 PM

Ready for this one.

3 principal engineers
6 PE's
1 EIT
1 PC detailer/CAD manager/IT
1 CAD Drafter/BIM modeler
5 CAD drafters.

So, as far as actual production personel go, we have pretty much a 1:1 ratio.

adampatten

2008-04-09, 02:46 AM

Quite soon we will have 4 engineers to 1.5 drafties. But we have been engaged for so much work coming up that we have enough for probably twice the staff.

We will be growing quite rapidly over the next year or so I guess we should keep a decent ratio. On some of our larger jobs, I think we woud use a team of 1 project engineer, 1 junior engineer and two drafties. Not bad since the company was only started last August with one engineer.

cadpro78

2008-04-09, 12:27 PM

We have:

2 Partners
3 Architects
2 Project Managers (I think we need more of these)
2 CAD techs
1 Receptionist

And most of the designer/architects do their own CAD work....because they think they know more about CAD.

k.baxter

2008-04-09, 05:59 PM

I have always argued we are "top heavy" with

4 principles
1 Managing PE
6 PE, EIT, Engineers, Designers

2 Drafters
1 Drafter/CAD Manager

If you use some mushy math its around 4:1

mikemcg36

2008-04-16, 03:44 PM

At our end of the building (Civil Design - Subdivision/Site Work)
4 Enginerds
3 Cad Techs

The other end (Civil Design - Roadway/Bridges)
Same as above.

Never realized the balance there.

clarkrj

2008-04-18, 09:53 PM

14 engineers
16 designer/draftsmen

this is the first time we have had more designers than engineers. I just realized we filpped due to several engineers leaving the company.

jmctamney

2008-04-18, 10:02 PM

14 engineers
16 designer/draftsmen

this is the first time we have had more designers than engineers. I just realized we filpped due to several engineers leaving the company.

We're lopsided for the same reason. Are you staying busy? Somehow we are. I alone had 4 submittals this week.

clarkrj

2008-04-18, 10:07 PM

Just trying to keep our heads above water. We are in the petrochemical industry and have increased business tenfold in the last five years. This year looks to be another record.

jmctamney

2008-04-18, 10:09 PM

Just trying to keep our heads above water. We are in the petrochemical industry and have increased business tenfold in the last five years. This year looks to be another record.

I hear you. Seems like I get a call almost every day from recruiters looking for people in that industry. Frankly I've considered it but doesn't seem to be the place for someone with 13 years of doing nothing but structural.

drafting.33933

2008-04-19, 03:57 PM

2 principles (Engineers)
1 Architect
2 Civil Engineers
1 Mechanical Engineer
1 Electrical Engineer (Contract)
1 Electrical Technologist (Contract)
3 Engineers-In-Training (E.I.T.)
3 Drafting Technicians
1 Senior Design Technician/CAD Manager (me)

We (drafting dept.) do find that there is a bottleneck in the engineering department.

Our drafting position is more than just a "pencil pusher". We encourage our drafting tech.s to do basic designs to give the engineers the time to work on larger items. The engineers just check our work later.

Ted