Hollow Metal mullion profile?

[patricks]

Has anyone ever tried to create a hollow metal mullion profile to use with a storefront wall? Does Revit always trim the curtain panel back to the widest point of the mullion (i.e. can't have any part of the curtain panel overlap in front of part of the mullion profile)?

[Haden]

I have just discovered the same problem. I am hoping someone can help me with the way my mullion or profile is defined, so that the ends of the mullions can overlap enough to allow the proper 3d connection. (See attachment)

[patricks]

heh that was an OLD thread.... apparently it's not possible. We create HM windows as a window family. It's better that way, anyway, for scheduling and showing them in legend views.

[Haden]

.... apparently it's not possible. We create HM windows as a window family. It's better that way, anyway, for scheduling and showing them in legend views.

I would agree that scheduling HM borrow lites and windows is better as windows, but when you have borrow lites that wrap around a corner, it becomes much handier if you can just copy and move gridlines back and forth, rather than having to create a separate family for each combination of lites and mullions.

Is there anyone else out there who would agree with me that it would be worthwile for the factory to get around to improving this behavior? I can also imagine cases where you are dealing with actual aluminum curtainwall systems with various mullion profiles that might need this kind of cleanup.

[patricks]

OLD THREAD ALERT!! :p

I'm once again looking into trying to make Revit curtain wall mullions and panels look like actual hollow metal door and window frame assemblies.

I understand that I could create custom glass panels with extensions past the normal reference places so that the glass will correctly overlap the "rabbet" portion of the frame. But what about where the mullions intersect? Is there any way to get that to look correct?

Also, would I need to create separate profiles for the left/right and top/bottom mullions to get the rabbet on the correct side, and then a 3rd profile for any interior mullions with rabbets on both sides?

[eric.piotrowicz]

[quote=Also, would I need to create separate profiles for the left/right and top/bottom mullions to get the rabbet on the correct side, and then a 3rd profile for any interior mullions with rabbets on both sides?[/quote]

Yes, each mullion condition would be a seperate profile. The head, sill, and intermediate are pretty easy to keep track of but the left and right are a constant headache for us. Each user seems to understand the idea of left or right but nobody seems to agree on whether its when you are looking at the curtain wall from the interior or exterior. Not to mention when people don't pay attention to interior/exterior face of the curtain wall when its being drawn.

[t1.shep]

Yes, each mullion condition would be a seperate profile. The head, sill, and intermediate are pretty easy to keep track of but the left and right are a constant headache for us. Each user seems to understand the idea of left or right but nobody seems to agree on whether its when you are looking at the curtain wall from the interior or exterior. Not to mention when people don't pay attention to interior/exterior face of the curtain wall when its being drawn.

Maybe you can enlighten me as to how you can tell what is interior and exterior when creating a curtain wall. ( I know this issue also affects the model when you export out to gbxml as well).
Since curtain walls don't have an option like regular wall for what face you're drawing from, I find it hard to tell which direction the curtain wall is facing. Recently I made a custom panel, and from the curtain wall panel family template it's shows you what it considers exterior. so when you place that panel in the family, you can tell which direction the wall is facing. But with a regular glass panel that is centered on the curtain wall line, it's extremely non-intuitive to decipher what direction the curtain wall is facing.

[dmoodydesign]

The flip controls are what give this away. They should always show on the exterior side of a wall in plan, both curtain and regular. Double check that your structure is created correctly and defines the exterior skin accordingly.

[patricks]

Maybe you can enlighten me as to how you can tell what in interior and exterior when creating a curtain wall. ( I know this issue also affects the model when you export out to gbxml as well).
Since curtain walls don't have an option like regular wall for what face you're drawing from, I find it hard to tell which direction the curtain wall is facing. Recently I made a custom panel, and from the curtain wall panel family template it's shows you what it considers exterior. so when you place that panel in the family, you can tell which direction the wall is facing. But with a regular glass panel that is centered on the curtain wall line, it's extremely non-intuitive to decipher what direction the curtain wall is facing.

A trick to remember: ALL walls are drawn with the exterior side on the outside when drawing in a loop in a clockwise direction. So if you're drawing left-to-right, exterior will be up side. From top-to-bottom, exterior is right side. So on and so forth. I would also guess that a curtain wall's mullion settings consider Border 1 as the end drawn first and Border 2 as the end drawn second.

But then the spacebar will flip a wall's orientation while you're drawing it, so there's really no way to tell which end is which if you're having to go back and change stuff after-the-fact.

[eric.piotrowicz]

Maybe you can enlighten me as to how you can tell what in interior and exterior when creating a curtain wall. ( I know this issue also affects the model when you export out to gbxml as well).
Since curtain walls don't have an option like regular wall for what face you're drawing from, I find it hard to tell which direction the curtain wall is facing. Recently I made a custom panel, and from the curtain wall panel family template it's shows you what it considers exterior. so when you place that panel in the family, you can tell which direction the wall is facing. But with a regular glass panel that is centered on the curtain wall line, it's extremely non-intuitive to decipher what direction the curtain wall is facing.

Looks like everybody got it answered above. Just to add an extra level of certainty about interior/exterior, I add a left or right curtain wall jamb mullion after placing the curtainwall to verify that its behaving as I expect.

[bpayne]

OK, so old post, but I was working on this issue and came up with a clean solution. Keep your mullion as a simple 2" x 4.5" rectangle and add the stops to the glass panel. Works like a charm.

[patricks]

OK, so old post, but I was working on this issue and came up with a clean solution. Keep your mullion as a simple 2" x 4.5" rectangle and add the stops to the glass panel. Works like a charm.

That's a good thought. I just wish we could have the mullion intersections clean up in both directions with no intersecting lines, since HM frames are often welded, ground smooth, and painted with no visible joints.

The problem, though, is that you'd need to have the glass stop and mullion "rabbet" both in your glass panel family, which wouldn't work well when you have different mullion depths for different wall depths. It also wouldn't quite clean up correctly in plan view.

*sigh* still no great solution to this IMHO.

[bpayne]

Yes, the elevation does not clean up as well as I would like. And I did have to create multiple family types for the different depths. However I solved the plan cleanup issue by nesting a detail component with a masking region in the mullion profile.

I feel it works well....and it looks much closer to reality then any other option I have used.

[patricks]

Here's my solution, not perfect in plan/elevation but looks pretty close IMHO and should render perfectly.

I think this would work nicely for expressing existing conditions where you have lots of different HM frame configurations and you're not worried about scheduling or elevating every single one.

If you have one configuration used many times then an actual family would probably be a better idea.

[patricks]

Interesting idea of the nested masking region. How did you deal with left vs. right vs. middle mullions with the rabbets on one or the other or both sides of the mullion?

[bpayne]

Detail component has all three (visibility controlled) and a detail parameter allows me to select which of the three types to use in each mullion type (i.e. Head/Right, Sill/Left, and Center)

[bpayne]

I am moving away from nesting multiple similar families into a component and controlling them through visibility settings... I am moving towards using family type parameters to select the correct option.