Laser / Sonic Measuring

[Roger Evans]

Hello Again

Looking for some info on Measuring Devices either Laser or Sonic

Will be used mainly for measuring existing Buildings

Anyone with experience on this ~ suggestions of what not to buy etc

ie how accurate are sonic devices?

Cheers

Roger

[David Haynes]

I used sonic measuring devices for years. They are accurate to within the inch. The issue is when other items (not intended) are picked up on the way to the object intended.

1. Good for self-measuring (you're on your own).
2. Existing buildings with tall ceilings.

I hear they have improved over the years in quality and reduction of price.

David Haynes

[Tom Dorner]

Roger,

We switched to laser measuring about a year ago and now never go on an as-built without one. The accuarcy is incredible (1/16" over 600 feet), the time savings is enormous and besides they just look cool in action.

We use the Disto lite5 by Leica which does basic straight measurements of distance. Leica also makes models that will mount to a surveyors tripod and get you vertical and longest/shortest diagonals.

Check them out at: http://www.disto.com/

Tom

[Roger Evans]

Thanks Guys
I've been checking various web sites your Disto laser retails around £200 in the UK With sonics from £35 up Laser gives the accuracy Sonics gives +/- 5% accuracy (means about 250mm over 5m ie 10" over 16ft ~ pathetic really
But what I wanted to know in practice do the sonics actually measure with greater accuracy than +/- 5% ??? if so maybe worth a £35 trial before I sell it on to a carpet fitter

Cheers

Roger

[Tom Dorner]

Roger,

In my opinion the sonic devices are just not worth it. I used to use them before lasers became affordable and they were better than using a tape in some situations, but not by much. You never knew what you were really measuring. Even the sonics that have a laser pointing device don't give you a true picture of what is being measured. Just remember that the sonics are bouncing sound waves off objects and you just don't know for certain where they are going since you can't see them.

The laser devices are so much more accurate they are worth every penny (or pence). Lasers are to sonics like Revit is to Windows Paint.

BTW...our local Disto dealer is a carpet fitter...they gave up on sonics years ago!

Tom

[Wes Macaulay]

Very cool thread, lads. I've got a few clients who ought to have one of these things already :shock:

[adegnan]

Roger,

We switched to laser measuring about a year ago and now never go on an as-built without one. The accuarcy is incredible (1/16" over 600 feet), the time savings is enormous and besides they just look cool in action.

We use the Disto lite5 by Leica which does basic straight measurements of distance. Leica also makes models that will mount to a surveyors tripod and get you vertical and longest/shortest diagonals.

Check them out at: http://www.disto.com/

Tom

THis brand got a pretty good review in the Journal of LIght COnstruction the other month. THey also reviewed Hilti, PLS, Stabila, and Trimble Spectra. The PLS and Stabila units are the same as the Disto unit mentioned above, manufactured by Leica with slightly different features.

Sonic units are worthless for anything but the roughest estimates.

All of these laser units were very accurate and highly rated. The reviewer ultimately decided upon the most expensive Hilti PD28 unit because it has a full numeric keypad for a built-in calculator (using your measurements) and some other nifty features.

[Roger Evans]

Thanks all and my apologies to any carpet fitters who may be reading

Abe I had found info on alternatives to Disto ie Hilti & Spectra but need to find the others I'll google later.

I note the Disto lite gives info in Metres & Feet Inches but their Higher range says read out in Millimetres ..

Does Disto Lite give info in millimetres?

This mm read out would be my choice if affordable.

What's forcing my arm here is a 3D Jigsaw of a building ~ a real pig to draft up

Thanks again

[adegnan]

Thanks all and my apologies to any carpet fitters who may be reading

Abe I had found info on alternatives to Disto ie Hilti & Spectra but need to find the others I'll google later.

I note the Disto lite gives info in Metres & Feet Inches but their Higher range says read out in Millimetres ..

Does Disto Lite give info in millimetres?

This mm read out would be my choice if affordable.

What's forcing my arm here is a 3D Jigsaw of a building ~ a real pig to draft up

Thanks again

Roger,

I'm not familiar with the metric capabilities of any of these. The review did not even mention metric conversion! but here are websites: www.us.hilti.com www.disto.com www.plslaser.com www.stabila.com www.trimble.com

I very much like Stabila and PLS products. We own a PLS-5 laser tool and many Stabila level sets.

Abe

[PeterJ]

Rog

I use the Disto Classic (I think - of the three in their range it is the middle one). It is a very useful tool and does things like measuring longest of spot distances (so you can splay across a corner and it will grab the longest measurement - excellent for checking diagonals) and doing basic geometry calculations on the fly (so by paythagoras you can measure a horizontal and a distance to a point and it will give you the vertical difference - good for ridges - most accurate when used with a tripod).

I hate doing surveys and farm them out whenever possible, however I have done more since I got the Disto.

I can't speak for the sonics but I understand that they are accurate enough but cannot give a fix on what is being measured so only really useful in simple open situations.

[Zig]

I have been using the Disto Classic for the past 3 years. It's paid for itself 5 times over.

[Damo]

Roger,

We got a Disto Classic last year, totally recommend it for the following simple reasons:

Avoid the sonic measuring devices. Not accurate and, as others here have noted, you don't know what you are exactly measuring to.

Laser will allow you to triangulate. You can take the diagonal of a room, the laser will search for the longest distance as you scan horizontally across the room (Concave corner). Similarly, you can take the shortest distance, say the front corner of a chimney breast (Convex cornet situation). As the Disto scans (horizontally), it will record the shortest distance encountered.

We can now do surveys with one person. Measurements over long distances with obstacles in the middle are no longer a problem.

I know of one company that uses the top-of-the range Disto Plus (old version had a cable link via RS232 interface I think, latest model has Bluetooth), linked to a Tablet PC and using UDsm2 survey software.

As they take the measurements with the Disto Plus, the data is transferred via bluetooth to the Tablet PC and the software draws the plan. No re-drawing when you return to the office, just export. See http://www.udsm2.co.uk/

An alternative to the Tablet PC is to use a PDA (Palm Pilot / Dell Axim ) and a low spec CAD package specifically used for PDA called CeCAD.

http://www.udsm2.co.uk/docs/cadpad-bundle.htm
http://www.udsm2.co.uk/docs/simpad-bundle.htm

Hope this is of help (Although above UK reseller tends to like AllPlan)

Damian

[Roger Evans]

I just checked the site ~ Truly amazing world we live in ~ I must get out more.

E mailing the info to myself is over the top ~ but the level of info possible is incredible ~ would be interesting to see a development within Revit.

At moment I see either Disto lite or classic as contenders until I can check out specs tomorrow after holiday

Many thanks I never thought we had actually reached this point in technology

[Tom Dorner]

Roger,

I just fired up the Disto Lite and it look like it does not give a read out in mm.

It does do meters in the form of: 1.xxxxx and 1.xx

We have two Disto Lites and are on the verge of buying another device. The next one will be the Classic or Pro with the Bluetooth. If you have a more complex building the ability for the longest/shortest diagonal and the ability to measure heights indirectly is invaluable.

When we started off with our first device the boss man thought I had just spent his $375 on a "toy". Turned out that we made the money back in the first day since I did a measure on a 300,000 Sq. Ft. building by myself . The unit became so popular in our 9 person office we soon purchased a second one and now two are not enough.

Between lasers and Revit we are moving at light speed!

Tom

[Roger Evans]

Thanks Tom
Have you checked out the link Damo posted?? Any potential for you there with the DistoPlus? If so I'd be very interested in seeing how this works & links to Revit
Anyway please keep us posted when you get it.

I'll probably purchase the Classic after I come back from Holiday ~ I'll have it on a 10 day trial first

The Cheapest Disto Supplier I've been able to find so far in the UK is A1 Surveys Ltd based in Cardiff Lite at £ 185 / Classic £265 / Plus £459 (all + VAT)
They also hire out so for any large job ...

The Spectra HD 150 is slightly cheaper & seems to equate with Classic
The Stabilia LE 100 is slightly more & seems to equate with the Classic

Many Thanks

[Susan42Roberts]

I'd like to use laser distance measurement for as-built drawings. There is no laser vs. sonic debate since I purchased an ultrasonic meter and then first had a job drawing a gym full of mirrors next a restaurant with pools of standing water! I'm confused as to how seamlessly the data from a laser distance measuring device, Leica, Hilti, transfers into AutoCAD. All information I've gotten explains how to use Bluebeam or a serial port to transfer data into Excel. Also, should I just make a leap to 3D laser scanning? Comments, please.

[adegnan]

Roger, did you ever buy one?

Susan42, I don't know that you could integrate this into Revit for as-built currently. I don't think there is any interface or organizational method to make this useful.

What I currenlty do (now, this is just average residential jobs) is sketch an approximate floor plan, list critical dimensions to take, and then take that plan to the jobsite when taking final measurements to assess existing conditions.

THis may be a bit different from your need for as-built, though.
Good luck!

[Roger Evans]

Yup Got the DistoLite (not latest model) but really pleased with it

Impresses the hell out of clients ~ and tends to put builders on the back foot when you check dimensions

I thought it would speed things up but I find I just take more measurements ~ the novelty will wear off sometime

[Susan42Roberts]

Glad to hear Roger finally made the leap to laser distance measuring and had a happy landing. I definitely will purchase a laser distance measuring device, probably the Leica Disto Plus. The 3D laser scanner is just 'way too expensive to think about now. I should probably continue this thread to discuss how to automate the process of incorporating the measurement directly into AutoCAD in the Hardware Forum. However, if anyone wants to explain their measurement importing experience with Revit, I'll try to draw an AutoCAD analogy.

[PeterJ]

There's an odd programme that has been showing here recently called Dragon's Den or something similar, an amalgam of Trouble at the Top meets Pop Idol, anyway this week one of the potential entrants seeking funding from the dragons was a pair of brothers with a laser telemetry system which allowed them to take measurements using a digital camera with some kind of stereo laser attachment. Be interesting to see that go into production. Much more usable than point cloud surveys.

[funkman]

just bought a Leica Disto Classic - I will be trying it out for the first time on a huge house I have just been commmissioned on. Looks like a real time saver for this three storey house.

Hope it will serve me well, and until the full GPS systems come out where you will be able to store 3d points for easy entry into Revit 16.

[Roger Evans]

Certainly one of best things I bought as a lot of my stuff is refurb ~ Still take your tape with you for the smaller dims
Outside dims ~ aim into shadow if you can otherwise the red dot is almost unreadable

I don't think you will regret it & really impresses clients

[Kirky]

I have the Disto Pro a, an excellent unit with 1000 measurement memory built in with cable transfer to pc. Although it is possible to input measured lines straight to AutoCAD or Revit I tend not to bother. Generally I just measure and record consecutive numbers and print out the actual distance back in the office. Nearly impossible to make a mistake even with the most inexperienced user with unbelievable accuracy. Also Still carry a tape for small and confirmed areas.

[adegnan]

I got the late-model refurbished Disto and I'm happy with it as well. Has helped me save a bit of time and has reliable accuraccy.

[Batman]

Can these machines measure along planes?

ie. are they any use in getting external building measurements?

Hopefully my pic can help explain my query.

[Roger Evans]

Yes if you fix a plane on the corner for it to hit ~ Like your clipboard ~ but then you need someone to hold it or you have to wedge it

[Tom Dorner]

I bought a laser target at the local home center for a couple of dollars for getting external lengths. It also has a magnet on it for attaching to metal studs and steel door frames. Art putty also works to hold it in place on brick etc. The lasers outdoors work best on cloudy days or out of direct sunlight.

Tom

[blads]

Yes if you fix a plane on the corner for it to hit ~ Like your clipboard ~ but then you need someone to hold it or you have to wedge it
If its not windy...post-it-notes work like a treat at external ends of buildings

I use the Disto Lite - one of the best things I ever bought

[Steve_Stafford]

...If its not windy...post-it-notes work like a treat at external ends of buildings...Off topic but, I can picture the ad already, brawny construction worker desparately trying to find something to bounce the laser off...borrows a Post-It from vivacious science professor he sees teaching inside the building when he looks through an open window, reaching out the window, naturally she needs to "lean" out the window to give him the Post-It. Copy reads: "Not just good for notes anymore! The new even stickier Post-It. Two grades, Coarse Surface and Smooth Surface."

[blads]

nice description there Steve... I can almost picture it :)


Off topic but, I can picture the ad already, brawny construction worker desparately trying to find something to bounce the laser off...borrows a Post-It from vivacious science professor he sees teaching inside the building when he looks through an open window, reaching out the window, naturally she needs to "lean" out the window to give him the Post-It. Copy reads: "Not just good for notes anymore! The new even stickier Post-It. Two grades, Coarse Surface and Smooth Surface."

[Wanderer]

If its not windy...post-it-notes work like a treat at external ends of buildings

I use the Disto Lite - one of the best things I ever boughtI've never used mine for external measurements, just inside, but, I have used post-its quite a few times. seem to work quite well.

[Wanderer]

Off topic but, I can picture the ad already, brawny construction worker desparately trying to find something to bounce the laser off...borrows a Post-It from vivacious science professor he sees teaching inside the building when he looks through an open window, reaching out the window, naturally she needs to "lean" out the window to give him the Post-It. Copy reads: "Not just good for notes anymore! The new even stickier Post-It. Two grades, Coarse Surface and Smooth Surface.":roll: sheesh. (you might have missed your calling to marketing, though. ;) )