Rooms and Plan Regions?

[davidcobi]

I can't tag this room for some reason. I've placed a plan region around a room. The cut plane of the plan region is set to 3' but the cut plane of the view is set to 4'. If I set the cut plane of the view to 3' it works all of the sudden. So why is the visibility of a room that is located INSIDE a plan region affected by the cut plane of the main view. Shouldn't the visibility of the room be dependant on the cut plane of the plan region it lies within?

[Steve_Stafford]

I believe in the current implementation of plan regions they are intended to allow altering the display of host and hosted objects. Rooms are not affected by plan regions. In your example the cutplane is higher than the room and therefore can't tag the room until you lower the view's cutplane.

If you need to show windows, doors above a plan region will help you. Same for a roof getting cut too low etc...but rooms are defined by the view's cut plane, not a plan region.

[davidcobi]

So rooms ignore plan regions... nice.
Rooms are not very split level friendly... yet.

[Steve_Stafford]

...rooms are not very split level friendly... yet.David,
I've been meaning to get around to replying, sorry for the delay. With rooms now having an upper limit and offset parameter you should be able to work out split level plans easier than ever before? Work from a plan view that is higher than the others...so look down from the higher level of the split levels. Use a plan region to adjust the cut of windows and doors if necessary.

[sbarnecut]

I've been attempting to place a Room Tag in a plan region for a few hours now, and it just doesn't stick. The visibility settings permit it, and the rooms certainly intersect the cut plane of the plan region (I checked in section). I suppose I'm just using text until version 9.1. (Unless anyone has figured a better workaround...)

[davidcobi]

Work from a plan view that is higher than the others...so look down from the higher level of the split levels.

The example I posted IS looking down from the higher floor plan (2nd floor). I can tag fine when looking down from the lower floor plan (Gym F.F.)

The key is to FIRST get the cut plane of the global view range to cut through ALL the room volumes THEN set up your plan regions to display the windows and doors properly. If our ceiling heights were 8' and I had a project that stepped up a slope more than 8' I wouldn't be able to tag both floors in one view because the ceiling of level 1 is at 8' and the base of level 2 is above 8' (hence the cut plane can't intersect both room volumes). We do have a project that does this and it would be nice to be able to tag both floors in one view being that the footprint of the two floors don't overlap eachother as they would in a typical 2 story building.

If plan regions and rooms would just play nice together then tagging 2 levels in the same view wouldn't be as much a problem.

[davidcobi]

and the rooms certainly intersect the cut plane of the plan region

Plan regions ignore rooms so tagging a room is only possible if the cut plane of the view range of the view itself intersects the volume of all rooms you want to tag.

[davidcobi]

Here is a graphic that explains what I'm talking about. One workaround might be to create two separate floor plan views (one for each level) and align the two views on one sheet.

[Adam Mac]

David - thanks for your explanation - i haven't had to deal with this scenario as yet but i'm glad i read this thread as at least now i'll have an idea if i strike the same problem!

[Steve_Stafford]

Yes thanks for documenting it clearly. That's a pretty serious SPLIT level condition eh? :smile:

[Mr Spot]

Could you change the lower room top extent to it extends up above the level so you can tag it?

[davidcobi]

Could you change the lower room top extent to it extends up above the level so you can tag it?

That's probably what we are going to do since these are single story tiers.

[sbarnecut]

Can we all agree that plan regions and rooms should play nice together, and that this is a bug (or at least an oversight)? Or is there some legitimate reason for this behavior?

[Steve_Stafford]

When the plan region tool was introduced it was meant to allow us to show windows that were above the cut plane, change a cut roof so it wasn't cut anymore, move down to show a door cut at a lower landing. Intended to affect host and hosted objects.

Rooms didn't enter into the equation then because they weren't a real object until this release (RB9). In the past you couldn't "touch" a room and they didn't have height or volume. Now that they do they could conceivable persist across phases, they can't now. To include the ability of plan regions to alter what rooms are taggable in a view might make great sense too but they are going to need good examples to demonstrate just how and why they should.

A plan region currently can alter the cut of a stair IF the plan region completely surrounds the stair. If applied to a room using the same logic you'd have to be able to surround the entire room for it to be affected. In the example that David gave I'd argue that it wasn't typical for a "split level" condition and an elevation change of that much should be a separate plan itself. But I'm making a lot of assumptions about his project.

So if we think that plan regions should work this way then we need to help team understand how and why with some concrete examples.

[davidcobi]

A plan region currently can alter the cut of a stair IF the plan region completely surrounds the stair. If applied to a room using the same logic you'd have to be able to surround the entire room for it to be affected.

Rooms have a crosshairs and origin. Not sure how rooms work but maybe rooms could be coded so that whatever plan region the ORIGIN lands in is the plan region that rooms acknowledge.

For now I think I can live with plan regions ignoring rooms, it just takes an adjustment in the way we think about setting our view and plan region cut planes.

[sbarnecut]

Lining up different views with different view ranges on a sheet seems like a workaround. If rooms are indeed three dimensional, and can be reported in section, then they should be reported in Plan Regions. I also don't like the idea of rooms only reporting when fully enclosed in the region. It strikes me that if the room is common to the associated level as well as the region, then it should report. It would only be where the plan region cut through a room and did not have any part of that room in the view range that the room should not report. I think how Revit handles rooms in section is instructive: you can split a section through a couple of rooms, and label each room separately even though they appear as one space.