What Manuals

[JASONM30395]

Ok it's monday, and this goes along with it. Is it just me or are paper manuals going the way of the dodo. Just recieved my "manuals" for LDDT 2005 and boy do they seem to be lacking. They are all of 124 pages long. Now I know that there is the installed help file and online help, but hey, reading those on the buse ride home just doesn't work so well. You'd think that when we shell out 5 to 15 thousand dollars for a program AutoDesk might drop more than just a dime on the manuals. What good is a program if you can't master it before the next upgrade comes out, and with the information that's at my finger tips (without logging onto the web) that sure as heck ain't gonna happen cuz we all know that when your in the office you got to be "productive" not "looking up stuff on the web"

When people like Goerge Omura can come up with volumes in the range of 1400 PAGES you'd think AutoDesk would step up a little and say "Hey maybe we should do better than just a tenth of that"(not even).

[Beth Powell]

You're right. As with a lot of the software today, companies are cutting back on paper that in most cases just sits on shelves gathering dust and is never used. Everything is electronic now.

In addition, since there are so many good authors out there, it works out better for almost everyone to just allow them to be approved to write on the programs for those of us that do want to read a hard copy.

We're showing our age perhaps in preferring paper manuals. They're a thing of the past, Buddy.

[Wanderer]

I just upgraded from vanilla acad 2002 to MAP 3D 2005. And this little thing about the size of a dr. suess book is supposed to help me figure out how to use this program!?!?!?! (not to mention the fact that the book didn't even come with it, I had to request it)

gee, can you guess which way I'm voting on this poll??? :evil:
:lol:

[JASONM30395]

You're right. As with a lot of the software today, companies are cutting back on paper that in most cases just sits on shelves gathering dust and is never used. Everything is electronic now.

In addition, since there are so many good authors out there, it works out better for almost everyone to just allow them to be approved to write on the programs for those of us that do want to read a hard copy.

We're showing our age perhaps in preferring paper manuals. They're a thing of the past, Buddy.

I don't mind if someone else writes the manual but when I've paid this much for a program , dishing out another $75-$130 for the book to be able to really learn how to use it just doesn't sit well with me. And I'll grant that most manuals get "left on the shelf gathering dust" but in my firm anyone who doesn't know how to do something is refered first to our "library" to try and solve there problems, as we find this actually forces them to learn what there doing as opposed to me showing them 6 or 7 times before it sinks in.

[TSI]

When we cross graded from Lt to full Cad last year all we got was the plastic box with the disk in and an envelope with some paper work in. No manual at all and even the set-up instructions were on the CD. Before installing the software I had to print off the stand alone installation guides so I could read them at home, not having time to search for what I needed at the office. I still have the print out with my bosses comments written on the front, lets say he was less than impressed that after paying out what for our tiny company was a massive sum of money we did not even get printed instructions. I can’t put what he actually wrote!
The help file and the online help is comprehensive but I still end up printing everything out so I can take it with me, make notes and re-read them. Ok a full manual for most Auotdesk products would probably need a crane to move it, but they really could put a bit more of a effort in.
;-)

[adampatten]

I have found that the help (F1) is what I use the most. Well.. that and and searching AUGI. I purchased the AutoCAD2005 bible and found it to pricey for how much I used it. But the best is to play around with the software.

After that babble... I have a quick flick through the CAD manual when it arrives then it goes in the drawer not to be seen until the next edition of CAD manual gets thrown in there. I do not find them important anymore.

[Filipe Francisco]

I have found that the help (F1) is what I use the most. Well.. that and and searching AUGI.

Me too... I can agree more with you


Cheers :beer:

[cadtag]

Intersting poll topic, and appropos for a user group to bring up.

Autodesk has gone from what was arguably the best software documentation on the planet, to ... what is supplied today. I would submit that the weight of paper generated/shipped by the marketing people at adesk far outweighs the weight of the paper supplied as end-user documentation. I know I trash a lot of marketing fluff and mailers, and see nothing documentation-wise from the publisher that can be read handily.

A question for those who believe that the supplied documentation is adequate... Does the cost of the software impact your finances, or is the software you use something supplied by the employer?

[StephenJ]

I remember when I was learning release 9 and 10 at school I had to buy my own Mastering AutoCAD books. I didn't see the manuals until I was using release 12. What I realized after buying Mastering AutoCAD R12 and other titles is the store bought books are better that the manuals that were provided by AutoDesk. Then manuals sat on the shelf and the books were used. Now with the internet, I really like the resources available with online searching and Discussion Groups like this one. If I am learning a new color of AutoDesk product I will still go buy a book but will get input from users like you before I do.

[michael.12445]

I pretty much agree with adampatten, with respect to paper vs. online documentation - I find the online documentation more convenient. That said, however, I often find the documentation - online or otherwise - incomplete and not that well written, so I have to resort to AUGI for additional help.

Michael Evans
Togawa Smith Martin Residential

[BrenBren]

I pretty much agree with adampatten, with respect to paper vs. online documentation - I find the online documentation more convenient. That said, however, I often find the documentation - online or otherwise - incomplete and not that well written, so I have to resort to AUGI for additional help.

Michael Evans

Togawa Smith Martin Residential

I like to books - they make great weights to hold down paper that's been rolled up for too long..

:lol:

I RARELY, if ever looked at the books. In theory, it'd be nice to take 'em with me and read them, oh, I dunno, when I'm bored (HA!), but really, to read them and understand them, you need to be at your computer so you can try out what you read about

~shrug~

[rkmcswain]

If you want to stroll down memory lane, visually....take a look at these threads...

http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10499
-and-
http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10518

[jaberwok]

A small point, neither for nor against anything - "Mastering ...", "Inside ..." etc were/are all "how to use ..." books. The old manuals weren't, they were reference materials - "what it can do".

[bjames.164872]

It seems that as the program gets bigger, the manuals get smaller. I started with release 9, which had much less capability than the 2008 that I use today, and the manual that came with Rel9 was almost adequate to learn something about using the program. But even then I didn't rely on the manual and bought additional books to try to learn more about the program with. I didn't rely on my employer to buy the books, I just visited the bookstore and bought them. I have about 8 general books from Release 10 or 12 through 2006. I've been interested in Lisp programming and I've got another half dozen or so books on that and then a few more on other topics of customization.

[rkmcswain]

It seems that as the program gets bigger, the manuals get smaller.

How so? The 2008 Users Guide is 2 volumes and over 1700 pages, while the 2000i Users Guide was a single volume and about 850 pages. I doubt that the r9 Users Guide was even that large.

[bjames.164872]

All we got w/ 2008 was a single disk. When we bought 2000i, then 2002, then 2005, 2006 all we got were disks. We just got 2009 and it came in a box about 1" thick, so I doubt if it came with much beside a disk.

[jaberwok]

It's possible that someone in your organisation (IT dept ?) has a box full of manuals filling a corner of their room.
It's amazing how often I've seen that.

[rkmcswain]

All we got w/ 2008 was a single disk. When we bought 2000i, then 2002, then 2005, 2006 all we got were disks. We just got 2009 and it came in a box about 1" thick, so I doubt if it came with much beside a disk.

Are we talking about manual content -or- physical bound books?

Sure, fewer books come with the software. Not everyone wants them. If you want a printed copy, go to http://www.autodeskbookrequest.com (http://www.autodeskbookrequest.com) and enter your serial number and tell them which book(s) you want and they will be shipped to you at no cost.

[cadtag]

Books, manuals, physical objects you can hold in your hand, scribble in the margins with a pencil, highlight, read without a power cord or charged battery, and are self contained entities whose functionality is not limited by lack of an ethernet line.

A page-count/number of volumes comparison between a bound book and autodesk's electronic manuals is not terribly useful, as many of those 17K electronic pages contain little more than a paragraph. And neglect such items as an index and glossary - both often useful in technical reading

[rkmcswain]

A page-count/number of volumes comparison between a bound book and autodesk's electronic manuals is not terribly useful

That volume count/page count is referring to "physical objects you can hold in your hand". I'm looking at the 2008 Users Guide right now. It's two books, each about 1-1/4" thick.

My last post describes how to get your own copy.

[cadtag]

Thanks for the correction, I was misunderstanding.