Existing, Demo & New floor plans and phases

[cadkiller]

Group;

I want to setup an existing, demo and new floor plans with the appropriate settings for the view phases; but I'm having trouble understanding all the different settings.

Under phasing / phase =
New construction
Existing

Under phasing / phase filters =
None
Show All
Show Complete
Show Demo & New
Show New
Show Previous & Demo
Show Previous & New
Show Previous Phase

How would you setup the following?

Existing Floor plan = New Construction - Show Previous Phase

Demo Floor Plan = Existing - Show Previous & Demo

New Floor Plan = New Construction - Show New or Complete?

Would this be correct?
Do I need a demolition phase?
Why don't they have a Show Existing and Show Demo filter?

[homes]

I just set this up on a project. Here is what I did.

Once the Existing plan was drawn, I changed everything to phase filter Existing. I then laid out the new construction walls, doors, etc... As I laid out the new construction, I used the demolish tool to blow out what was being torn down. For my views, I set one up as Existing/Demo Plan, with the settings in the phase filter to Show Previous + Demo. I set up the second view to Show Previous + New. Those sheets are what is going to be part of the construction document pack.

For the prints I used to meet with the clients, I set the view to Show Complete.

You do not need to have an additional phase for demo, or at least I didn't add it and it worked out fine. Let me know if this is clear enough.

[Scott_Bloss]

Existing floor plan use Phase filter show all and phase existing.
New floor plan showing new work and existing use phase filter show previous plus new
Demo floor plan show existing and demo work use phase filter show previous plus demo and set phase to new work.
I set up a separate demo plans, new plans, and existing along with the three types of elevations with these settings in my template.

Oh one more thing make sure the elements that you are drawing are on the correct phase or they will not display properly.

I hope this helps...let me know if you need more information.

[Scott D Davis]

"Phases" represent a time frame. Existing represents that which existed before your project. New Construction is the items that happen as part of your project. Demolition occurs during the "New Construction" phase.

If the view is set to "existing" phase, and you set the phase filter to "Show demo and new", it will appear nothing changed, becuase during "Existing" nothing was "demo'd" and nothing was "new".

If the Phase of the view is set to New Construction, and you have items created in the existing phase that have been Demo'd in the New Construction Phase, then set the Phase Filter to Show Existing and Demo for a Demo Plan, and Show Existing and New to show the New Plan.

Well, it sounds confusing, but it's really not that bad!

[cadkiller]

That was great!
Thanks to everyone for the quick replies.
You all earned some positive reputation points from me. :)

Edited:

Sorry Scott can't give any rep points today.
I need to spread the wealth before I can give you anymore.

[cadkiller]

Well, it sounds confusing, but it's really not that bad!
Scott;

You have to admit that 8 different phase filters (visability states) can confuse a person; especially when it gets multiplied with the amount of different phases you have in your project.

What about proposed future additions?
Should they be managed with design options instead?

[dhurtubise]

Phase will do fine.
Here's how i teach it
Phase not a point in time but rather range of time.Each phase can show beginning, middle and end.
Phase filter define those point in time. ie: prior + demo = beginning, prior + new = middle and show complete = end.

Obviously you can have more variation.

[Steve_Stafford]

Future is not part of the current implementation of phases. There are just four phase "states" (uhoh...chemistry)... New, Existing, Demo or Temporary.

If created "now" (current phase) = New
If created "before" (earlier phase) = Existing
If demo in the same phase as created = Temporary
If demo in a later phase than created = Demo

All model objects have two parameters, Phase Created and Phase Demolished.

To show future work in context I overlay views on sheets. Setup a view whose phase is the same as the future work. Phase filter show new only. Alter the model objects visibility graphics so all relevant elements are dashed, or dots or whatever. Annotate accordingly, now overlay this view on sheet, over a view showing the new/existing etc....

[Firmso]

Future is not part of the current implementation of phases. There are just four phase "states" (uhoh...chemistry)... New, Existing, Demo or Temporary.

If created "now" (current phase) = New
If created "before" (earlier phase) = Existing
If demo in the same phase as created = Temporary
If demo in a later phase than created = Demo

All model objects have two parameters, Phase Created and Phase Demolished.

To show future work in context I overlay views on sheets. Setup a view whose phase is the same as the future work. Phase filter show new only. Alter the model objects visibility graphics so all relevant elements are dashed, or dots or whatever. Annotate accordingly, now overlay this view on sheet, over a view showing the new/existing etc....

Could you also use Temporary to imply Future? And, if you do, are there consequences to be delt with along the way?

[Steve_Stafford]

To be temporary the phase created and phase demolished parameters for an object must be the same phase. If you move into the future phase it might be a bit confusing unless you remove the phase demolished setting and return it to None? Also any other temporary objects would be affected as well, assuming there were any. They overlay on sheets trick lets everything be "who" they are with the least consequences, imho.

[patricks]

I think the Existing floor plan will depend on how your office typically shows it. Our office typically does not show an Existing plan by itself, but rather only the demo floor plan and new floor plan.

But if you do show an Existing floor plan, and you want it to display with an Existing graphic override, then the Phase of that view needs to be set to New Construction, with the phase filter to Show Previous. I would set the Phase to Existing and filter to Show New while you're creating the existing building elements, so they will automatically go onto the existing phase, but then when you get ready to print, change the view to New Construction and Show Previous.

Then of course Demolition confuses many people. I always think of Demolition as something done as part of a New Constriction project. So therefore, your Demo view must be set to phase New Construction with the filter Show Previous + Demo.

New Construction plans will obviously be Show Previous + New, or just Show New if there is no existing construction. Although your site grading plan will need to be set to Show Previous + New to make both existing and new graded contours show in the view.

[cadkiller]

I tried to eliminate the existing plans and combine them with the demo; but got errors regarding room tags when I tried to display the existing and demo together. I can't control the phase of room objects and be able to demolish them in a certain phase. Do you guys get this error and if so what do you do to resolve it?

I ended up creating a demo phase and was able to display all the plans and elevations correctly.

[Steve_Stafford]

Rooms are limited to existing in one phase. I hope they will eventually get the phase created and phase demolished parameters so a room can persist across phases.

When you need to show existing rooms on a demolition plan you run into a paradox because to show everything properly you need to be in the next or a future phase and use a phase filter set to Show Previous and Demo. As a workaround I create a view that is set to Phase: Existing turn everything off but the room tags and then overlay that over the Existing/Demo view on a sheet.

Creating a demo phase doesn't really resolve the room issue (now you need to create rooms in that phase too) and tends to create other display issues...your mileage may vary.

[cadkiller]

The demo phase allowed me to set the phase created for the 3 different types of floor plans. I have existing set to existing phase, demolition set to demolition phase and new const set to new construction phase. I then set all my objects to be demolished in the demolition phase. They should have a phase filter to show present or is that suppose to be show previous and new?

I created rooms with tags for existing and new construction only. I didn't create them for the demo phase. Why will this cause display problems?

In reality existing, demolition and new construction are actual phases of a renovation project. I don't know why Autodesk is suggesting that you don't need to use a demo phase.

[jcoe]

I do not believe Steve was talking about rooms when he mentioned display issues. I believe he might have been referring to how objects are displayed. To go back to what Patricks was saying, demolition is an action that takes place during new construction and not necessarily a phase by itself. This being said, it is my understanding that if you place a phase between existing and new, the infill graphics of the new construction will not show. This is because your new construction has a phase filter of show previous + new. You have now placed demolition as a previous phase, and therefore your new construction does not recognize the demolition as an act of new construction.

I hope this makes some kind of sense.

[cadkiller]

Say you have a project that requires you to construct some temporary wall barriers, stairs and work platforms. Where are we suppose to draw the temporary work? I don't think I'm suppose to be creating them in the existing or new construction plans or phases. How will I show this work? I guess then and only then will you require a demolition phase.

Another thing is with this demolition phase you can schedule all the temporary materials and keep it separate from the existing and new.

Anyways thanks for all the help and the overlay idea. I will give it a try on the next project I do with phases.

[Steve_Stafford]

Go back to the post about the four states of objects in Revit. A temporary object is one whose parameters phase created and phase demolished are the same. You create a temporary wall, say shoring, in the new construction phase and then demolish it in the same phase. Temporary objects have their own unique graphic overrides.

[cadkiller]

Steve;

Thanks for your persistent patience with me.

If I do that the object doesn't display in any of my floor plans.
I inserted a door and set the created and demolish to be the same and I only see the opening (not the door itself). I also inserted a wall and it completely disappeared.

PS: Shouldn't I be creating the temporary wall in the demolition phase and demolishing it in the new construction phase?

[Steve_Stafford]

Comes down to overrides...if you want to show Existing, New and Temporary create a new Phase Filter. Assign New to By Category, Existing to Overriden and Temporary to Overriden. Then assign that phase filter to the view.

[Andre Baros]

We're just run into this issue of existing room tags in a demo plan (using Steve's workaround of two plans on top of eachother.) Isn't there a better way? and if you could change the program to fix this how would you do it? It's clearly a work around, but I can't suggest a better way...

[Justin Marchiel]

i would like to know how to not show a past phase such as in the case where i have a 3 phased job, but would like phase 2+3 to show.

I can't seem to get around not being able to do this. If it was a past phase (not matter how far back) it seems to be existing, and there is no way to filter past phases.

any ideas?

Thanks

Justin

[johnf.77896]

Future is not part of the current implementation of phases. There are just four phase "states" (uhoh...chemistry)... New, Existing, Demo or Temporary.

If created "now" (current phase) = New
If created "before" (earlier phase) = Existing
If demo in the same phase as created = Temporary
If demo in a later phase than created = Demo

Couldnt you use "design options" to show future work to be done?

John Fleming
GMK Architecture, inc.

[ITABWODI]

Thanks for the tips everyone! I am trying the view overlay concept for my latest demo plan, and I can at least say that it works. This has been a challenging issue for me. I know rooms are phase-specific, but I'm still having trouble understanding why their visibility can't be controlled by the phase filter property instead of being tied to which phase is current in the view (probably a question for the factory). Either way, we almost always have demo plans in our projects, and we always need to label the rooms - it would be nice to be able to do all that in the same view.