any idea how to terminate a glass rail?

[3dsketcher]

i thought i've played around with all the stair parameters but im missing this part. how can i terminate both glass balustrades. see attached.

thanks in advance.

[3dsketcher]

if you look below, the stringer needs cleaning too. how can i make the rails talk to each other. i can't sketch a stair rail and a level rail can i?

[greg.mcdowell]

the problem is that Revit sees the glass rail at a predefined size and doesn't have anyway to shorten it... the only solution that i know is to create custom panels for these conditions

[3dsketcher]

thanks greg. does that mean i can assign a custom panel on each end? can you point me to the right direction as to where i can do that?

[greg.mcdowell]

you'll need to create a custom "post" and in the baluster dialog at the bottom is where you can set the start, corner and end posts... not sure how you would handle things if you have a bunch of differing corner posts though... probably need to split the rail into several pieces.

i haven't done this yet but my impression is that, while one wide glass baluster could probably work for multiple rails, you'll likely need unique start, end and possibly corner posts for each rail segment as each rail will likely be of differing lengths... and that means multiple (though nearly identical) railing families

for example... if you have a 22'-6" long rail with glass balusters at 4'-0" O.C. and center the pattern you "should" have (I'm doing this from memory) a 1'-3" wide space on either end so you'd need a custom panel for that condition... if the next rail were 35'-9" long you'd have 1'-10 1/2" remaining at the ends (math is right I hope...) and a different panel would be needed for that

what i hope Revit starts to allow us to do in future releases is create a railing system that would allow for a variable width glass baluster so instead of forcing a 4'-0" wide panel we could say that the rail has a maximum width of 4'-0" (and possibly a minimum as well to keep from having slivers at the ends) and allow the panels to vary within the run (6 panels on the first example, 9 on the second) this is more like how I think of railing systems in general

[3dsketcher]

thanks again. this is very helpful. ill try it. hope i can ask more questions when i hit a roadblock again.

[dhurtubise]

Check the web library there's sample of railings and one is a glass one.

[cwilrycx.109927]

Hi, I can't help you with wrapping the glass rail to a terminus, But I would be most appreciative If I could have a copy of your glass rail family. I am doing a High Rise and I need a Glass Rail....YIKES!

cwilrycx@mac.com

Thanks

[3dsketcher]

thanks greg. i was able to follow your instructions. there is one more question though. how do i now take out the glass balustrade that i have replaced with the start and end post? as you look at the attached image, it's overlapping.

[3dsketcher]

Hi, I can't help you with wrapping the glass rail to a terminus, But I would be most appreciative If I could have a copy of your glass rail family. I am doing a High Rise and I need a Glass Rail....YIKES!

cwilrycx@mac.com

Thanks

here's the glass family. i'm sure i've just modified this from somewhere.

[greg.mcdowell]

it looks like you're using the same baluster for both conditions (as a post and a baluster)... you'll need a new family to use as a post that is sized to fit the condition... but it looks like you could almost do away with the post from what I'm seeing on the bottom of the stairs...

[SCShell]

Hey there,

Just a suggestion....
When I did a glass railing, I gave up trying to use the "revit way" and did it my way. I was very successful in using simple curtain walls and editing their individual profiles. It took a bit longer maybe, but at least I could do it and edit it later if needed. I also liked that the grid point "butt glazed joints" were actually vertical.

I then used the railing tools to create the hand rails etc.
Just a thought since it worked out pretty well for me.
Good luck
Steve

[Archman]

Another alternative to making individual glass panels is to create a rail profile in the shape of the cross section of the glass and give it a glass material. You then have a single sheet of glass following the path of the rail. Then you can draw model lines on the face of the glass to represent the joints.

This method was less complicated for me than creating custom baluster families, and produced acceptable results for my project.

[Archman]

Hey there,

Just a suggestion....
When I did a glass railing, I gave up trying to use the "revit way" and did it my way. I was very successful in using simple curtain walls and editing their individual profiles. It took a bit longer maybe, but at least I could do it and edit it later if needed. I also liked that the grid point "butt glazed joints" were actually vertical.

I then used the railing tools to create the hand rails etc.
Just a thought since it worked out pretty well for me.
Good luck
Steve


That's a good idea too. I've tried that before as well, and it produces exceptional renderings. My idea above is geared more toward documentation.

[wearethestones]

I figured out how to eliminate that last panel from the end
-In the "edit baluster placement" dialog and on the "break pattern" drop down select "each segment end"
-and in "justify" select "spread pattern to fit"
-now you should be left with and equal starting and ending baluster make a custom baluster and insert it into the "start and end post" - Im not sure how the base point is set up for the custom baluster but you can set the "space" to adjust the end/start baluster position...kinda trial and error to find the proper location. Good luck!

[wearethestones]

Now I pose my question...
-Since I have created 4 different railings all "joining" at the corners...the railings don't actually make a clean join. I guess I could clean this up with the linework tool in plan, but this doesn't help in 3d which is what this model is being used for specifically.
-A friend of mine had mentioned something about setting up work planes in order to make the join...but this doesnt make sense to me...does this make sense to anyone?

-Ive also tried making a complete railing system(1 rail that has corners)(not 4 rails that join at corners) by making custom corner posts...but I have 4 different corner conditions(4 different lengths of panel) and I can only plug 1 type of corner post at a time.

-Ive also made in place families of the panels and made the railing have no balusters...this sucks...big time cause I have to recreate the panels and adjust their location every time the opening change...which in the architecture profession we all know is everyday sometime twice a day.

-Someone please save me the trip to the loony bin...Thanks in advance

wAtS

[Calvn_Swing]

I might point out that this whole post is for glass rails, which have to follow certain laws of production. So in response to several posts:

1) While you might want to divide a stair run into sections because that is how you think, that is rarely how they are built. Usually, a standard sized panel is used and the spacing between them is adjusted to make them fit to tolerances and code. This is the most cost effective way of getting a glass panel stair built, so why not stick with that methodology in Revit? Otherwise, your design model will differ fundamentally with how the design is realized, and you're tossing away one of the advantages of BIM - the better transfer of information including design intent. Unless of course having perfectly spaced panels of wacky sizes (3' 5 7/32") is your design intent and you don't mind paying 50% more for the railing...

2) You may like the vertical joins between the glass panels, but your material costs on the glass are for a sheet big enough that they can cut your crazy shape out of it. In this case, I do see the point of doing so - I personally like the vertical joins better in that building with all the other vertical lines - but once again there is a cost associated with that choice, and in a situation where the vertical joins aren't worth the cost (a less classically modern building where the vertical elements aren't quite so dominant) then you'll end up with a much more expensive stair than is needed for the project, and that could cause VEs in other areas if communication between you and the contractor isn't so hot.

3) Glass doesn't magically "clean join" at the corners in real life. Unless you want to pay a ****-load for a cast glass corner piece at every intersection (the glass won't match your plate glass no matter what you do either, so you'll have to do cast glass for the whole stair = $$$) you're going to have a butt join at each of those intersections. So, in this case Revit is once again mirroring reality. Don't fight it so hard! (Reality, not Revit)

[wearethestones]

I dont have a problem w/ the glass joining, i dont want that to join...theres actually a space in the corners...the glass panels never touch - its the (hand)railings themselves...the part you put your hand on when walking. Thanks for trying

[Calvn_Swing]

My bad, the rest of the post seemed to be about the glass panels, so I assumed that's what you meant. In terms of making the railing "clean join" at intersections, I've found that Revit (in the case of continuous railings) can handle a single change in direction and get your join right. So, for instance, if you go from sloped to flat, no problem. If you go from flat and turn 90 degrees, no problem. Try doing both at the same intersection, you're screwed. So, if getting the joins perfect really matters, I'd say either adapt your stairs to the program (make some changes to your standard - which I never advocate on actual building elements) or make something custom for this condition.

To be honest, we use the stair tool mainly for exit stairs. If we have an architectural stair I usually end up making a custom family for that project to get what we want since the built in stairs aren't as flexible as we'd like. So, I don't worry so much about the 3D intersections not being perfect on utility stairs. On those that it does matter I'm fine anyway because I'm not using the system family at all...

[mruehr]

anything a bit more complex i do as in place family
group and copy to another location and adjust
works fast and accurate.
Rule based families are fine for simple stuff
don't waste your time trying to teach it headstands

[luigi]

I can't help you more than Greg...but don't you need an extension both on top and bottom of stairs? I know that from IBC 2003 the bottom extension requirement was modified, but don't you still need an extension?

Take care,

Luigi


here's the glass family. i'm sure i've just modified this from somewhere.