Partition "Fire Rating" Tape?

[m_cahoon14336]

How do others show various fire rated partitions. In ADT they had "fire rating tape" for partitions. I'm sure Revit does this much better, but I have just not found it. Thanks for your help

[beegee]

Try this thread (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=1103&highlight=fire+wall).

And this one also (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=3378&highlight=fire+wall).

[m_cahoon14336]

thanks, beegee. this will be helpful.

[Wes Macaulay]

For that sort of thing I've been using detail lines that clearly show what degree of fire separation is being provided. Since CD's get pretty full, I often do a separate set of "code plans", often at a smaller scale, where fire separations and ratings and exit distances are laid, along with other fire protection and life safety notation.

[Archman]

For that sort of thing I've been using detail lines that clearly show what degree of fire separation is being provided. Since CD's get pretty full, I often do a separate set of "code plans", often at a smaller scale, where fire separations and ratings and exit distances are laid, along with other fire protection and life safety notation.

I've been doing something similar except that I've been locking the detail line that represents the fire tape to the centerline of the wall so the tape moves with the wall. However, I would like something like a parameter in the all family tied to the wall's fire rating that would display a line with a linetype of my choosing at the centerline of the wall.

[mcuevas]

I still think this is something that should be addressed, especially after finding out that the Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development, (OSHPD) here in California is going to standardize the use of wall types in submittals to them. Not only do we have to use wall types but we have to use wall types that they have come up with........

[Scott D Davis]

In the wall type properties, I would like to be able to add a linetype in plan to the wall type, much like we can add a sweep in the sectional view. This line could be any defined linetype, and could be set to show course/medium/fine.

[Scott D Davis]

I have a solution that may work for you. I've created a wall type that has a "membrane" layer defined in the center of the core. Lets say it was a 2x4 wall...in the wall properties create 3 layers for the structural core. Set the middle layer to "membrane" and set the outer layers to Structural and make their thickness half the core thickness each.

Then, in View/Visibility, use the Override Host Layers "Cut Line Styles" and set the "common Edges" to the color and line type your choice. this causes the membrane layer (a single line) to display with the settings you chose.

[Archman]

Thanks Scott, I am going to try your solution and see how it works for my application. I like your wish for embedding a line in the wall. I've got a similar wish in the wishlist forum.

[m_cahoon14336]

Scott,

I'm missing something in your instructions. I've been trying to make a wall with your instructions, but cannot get it to work. I get a center solid line, but cannot change it to dashed, etc. Would you go through the instructions again.
Thanks, Colquhoun

[Archman]

Yes. Scott's idea was good logic. However, unless I'm missing something, you can't change the "common edges" of a membrane layer.

[bowlingbrad]

Even though we would rather do it the 'tape' way, we use the course display for fire ratings. Each wall type can have a diffrent course fill pattern and color. This way we can describe the fire ratings without having to do any linework fixes.

This is on the wishlist, I'm sure.

[Steve_Stafford]

It isn't really viable because it affect all the walls that have compound layers.

[Scott D Davis]

Steve's right...i didn't think it through far enough. The Overrides for line styles in walls will affect all compound walls, not just the ones that are fire-rated.

[m_cahoon14336]

Well, I'm glad it wasn't just me. I'll try a course fill pattern.

[phyllisr]

Let's make this even more challenging.

DHFS in our market area expects submittals in quadruplicate, in color, with the specific colors they dictate. Labeled. Plus a color for egress path. And suites. Which are different from the typical construction fire rating lines. Which we also need for other reviewing agencies. Plus the agency who wants to see solid shading instead of lines. Three views so far, none related to the wall and all with different requirements. It was as complicated and tricky with layer management and custom linetypes in ADT but at least I knew where to start.

And I was so proud of the command palette I made for the ADT 2005 rollout. Oh, well.

Revit strategies welcome though I doubt I will experiment until I know a little more about what I'm doing. Perhaps I'll think about it tomorrow at Tara along with Scarlett O'Hara.

PBR

[DaveP]

We've been working on this lately, too. Our solution isn't very Revit-like, but here's what we're doing:

We use some custom symbols and draw over or next to the wall using a Repeating Detail Component. We've got different symbols for 1, 2, 3, and 4 hour Fire-rated walls, and for Smoke, Firewall, Horizontal Exit, etc,etc (see image below)

As I say, not very Revit-like, but here's why:
- A Revit wall can only have a fill pattern within the boundaries of the wall. We typically do our Code plans at 1/16" & the wall is just too small for anything to show.
- Walls often have two or three different ratings (2-hour, Occupancy Separation AND Horizontal Exit all on one wall), so we draw three "lines" next to each other.
- Our symbol (-FW-) makes it pretty clear what it refers to, so even Code officials can figure it out without referring to a Legend.

[neb1998]

Scott,

I'm missing something in your instructions. I've been trying to make a wall with your instructions, but cannot get it to work. I get a center solid line, but cannot change it to dashed, etc. Would you go through the instructions again.
Thanks, Colquhoun
Under visibility goto Cut Line styles, you can select the host layer line color and pattern - the only proble is any thermal air layers you have on the plans elsewhere -- will also be dashed.

[neb1998]

Another way to do this is to create a wall type with an inplace wall sweep - like a profile. You cant change the line type of the profile itself, but you can change what it looks like for say a 1 hour, 2 hour, or 3 hour fire seperation. Just be sure that he profile elevation is at the same height as the cut plane

I have used this a few times for life safety reviews.

[scottwadd345906]

To represent a 2-hour fire separation I made a repeating detail that looks like our standard "dash-dot-dot" line. The repeating detail has a length of about 10 feet so that it reads at the drawing scale. If I set the Pattern Layout to "Maximum Spacing" the repeating detail overlaps enough so that it looks like a "dash-dot" line, which is our 1-hour rating! How would you remedy this?

[DanielleAnderson]

In the wall type properties, I would like to be able to add a linetype in plan to the wall type, much like we can add a sweep in the sectional view. This line could be any defined linetype, and could be set to show course/medium/fine.

I'm ressurecting an old thread here...any new developments on this idea in 9? I'm getting a lot of questions about it around here...
OR - any new ideas for how to deal with the old idea of "fire separation tape"?

[neb1998]

I'm ressurecting an old thread here...any new developments on this idea in 9? I'm getting a lot of questions about it around here...
OR - any new ideas for how to deal with the old idea of "fire separation tape"?
One word - Filters

[hand471037]

I'm ressurecting an old thread here...any new developments on this idea in 9? I'm getting a lot of questions about it around here...
OR - any new ideas for how to deal with the old idea of "fire separation tape"?

Actually, while filters are helpful, you can now in R9 make filled regions that rotate with the element. So you can now use a Coarse Fill Pattern for Fire Tape for it's pattern will rotate with the wall. in other words, angled wall = angled pattern. It solves the problem with minor issues.

Go into the Filled Regions under Settings, pick a pattern or create a new one, and a new option is on the Modify Pattern Properties window, a pull-down menu called 'Orientation in Host Layers'. If you change this to 'align with element' it will rotate the pattern with the wall, ala 'Fire Tape'.

Then all you gotta do is use a custom hatch pattern that has the pattern you want. We here use one that's a bunch of lines close together in groups to make for an appearance of thick dashes of even lengths...

[cphubb]

Danielle,

We are using various shades of grey to represent the fire seperations.

Black for 1 Hour
Dark Grey for 1 hour (actually bright green for our visibility)
If we needed anything higher we will switch to a hatch pattern for 4 (never actually used 3)

Our printer has no problem with this and the pdf reproduces really well with the greyscale.

It also is a clue to us which walls may have a couple of holes in them and allows us to correct quiclkly.

I know this is not fire tape, and if you feel that is necessary I have some Zipatone leftover, you can have it.

[DanielleAnderson]

I know this is not fire tape, and if you feel that is necessary I have some Zipatone leftover, you can have it.

Zipatone??? What is that? Can you still buy that stuff? :)
Thanks Jeffrey (nice to see you back again) & Chris, both good suggestions. I am just concerned about the push-back of "it doesn't look like the autocad drawings" (grr) if using coarse fill patterns.
I am very encouraged to hear that r9 allows you to rotate hatch patterns with objects though, that gets a big thumbs up.
Danielle

[neb1998]

Actually, while filters are helpful, you can now in R9 make filled regions that rotate with the element. So you can now use a Coarse Fill Pattern for Fire Tape for it's pattern will rotate with the wall. in other words, angled wall = angled pattern. It solves the problem with minor issues.

Go into the Filled Regions under Settings, pick a pattern or create a new one, and a new option is on the Modify Pattern Properties window, a pull-down menu called 'Orientation in Host Layers'. If you change this to 'align with element' it will rotate the pattern with the wall, ala 'Fire Tape'.

Then all you gotta do is use a custom hatch pattern that has the pattern you want. We here use one that's a bunch of lines close together in groups to make for an appearance of thick dashes of even lengths...Guess it depends what you are looking for, filters come very close to the same function of conditional schedules in revit systems and seem a bit more schedulable than just an ordinary hatch pattern. We are able to schedule and display each wall type very intuitively based on certain criteria that each wall meets.

Systems had this in an early beta, so the idea of conditional filters to floor plans has been of great interest to me since the early beta days.

The wall fills i have found are not as easy to use and do not alaways orientate themselves to the model correctly in all situations. so goodluck either way.

p.s. i just checked, revit 9 still does not have this conditional scheduling functionaly, not sure why.

[mcuevas]

Since we figured this issue was probably not at the top of the list for development, we have done something that works for our projects. On our wall legend we show a fill pattern for our most commonly used rated walls, 1-Hour, 2-Hour, etc. And then we also use wall tags to show what type of construction it is, 4" metal stud, 6" metal stud, 4" shaft wall, etc. Attached is an image of what it looks like.

[dpollard909366]

First of all I do not recommend the common edges method, because anywhere that you have different wall types joined - the common edges will show that linetype. Also it limits you to only one partition tape type, you can't have a 1hr, 1/2 hr, and 2hr.

[dpollard909366]

I found a hatch to use for fire rated walls. With 9.0 you can orient it with direction of the wall. The downside is that you cannot assign a model pattern to the wall cut, so if you have 1/8" overalls and 1/4" enlarged, the spacing will change in the line.

You can edit the .pat to create various linetypes, so please post anything good that you come up with. We have 3 different rated walls and are trying to create 3 different hatch patterns.

[Phil Read]

I'd try to avoid using drafting elements (details/lines) since they're prone to coordination issues and are view specific. I don'tt use coarse fill patterns as the results show up in section.

We can already tag walls based on the rating type parameter.

As for defining separation - Here's another option (somewhat similar to a previous suggestion). An instance parameter to define "Separation". Then, use a series of graphic overrides to display different separation values for the cut pattern of those walls. The results can be invoked in multiple views - or not shown at all if desired.

Examples attached/comments welcome.

Thanks -

Phil

[dpollard909366]

I think that this is the best way:

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=39807

[shenderson]

Then, in View/Visibility, use the Override Host Layers "Cut Line Styles" and set the "common Edges" to the color and line type your choice. this causes the membrane layer (a single line) to display with the settings you chose.

question #1 - will this still work if you need more than one rating in the view?

question #2 - if you use the .pat files, is there anyway to get the rating to show up in medium and fine?