Plan Region doesn't work for Ceilings?!

[dbaldacchino]

I have a 2 story building, with Level 2 at 14'-0" above Level 1 and the roof at 14'-0" from Level 2 (28'-0" from Level 1). I have some high volume spaces on Level 1 with ceilings at 18'-0". Naturally, these spaces don't show up on Level 2 because they're just high, one story spaces. Now I'm working on the ceiling plan and have hit a roadblock.

The View Range of the Ceiling Plan for Level 1 is set to have the top plane at 14'-0". So the 18'-0" ceiling doesn't display. So I placed a plan region to change the view range over this area, but noticed that there's no option to make a plan region "look up", like how ceiling plans are set up by default. Please someone tell me I'm doing something silly because I can't believe revit can't handle this!!

[dbaldacchino]

Well I think I'm out of luck. see posts below:

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=16917&highlight=plan+region
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=21738&highlight=ceiling+plan+region

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a solution (and it's been a year since this was reported). I'll probably have to set my view depth settings in my main view to a higher value and deal with what shouldn't be visible through masking with filled regions...yikes!! Wasn't expecting this bump in the road.

[robert.manna]

Why not just extend the view range of the ceiling plan? You're not going to "see" anything you don't want to by extending the view range, because there will be ceilings in the way (or other objects). You can still leave the cut plan of the RCP where it is, you just need to see deeper overall.

HTH
-R

[dbaldacchino]

There are several reasons why it's not a good idea for my situation. I end up with lots of extra linework I don't want to see, such as roof slabs (roof broken up in pieces and modeled to slope per roof plan) etc. I can turn off roofs and/or floors, but then I end up seeing through some stuff I don't want to see. I can use the linework tool and make some editing on lines I don't want to see, but this is all extra work. I expected the plan region to work just like it does in a plan view, where it would override all view range settings, including the view depth. Thanks for your answer though, I had already started experimenting with that and it seems like the only possible solution.

[luigi]

Hi David, I could swear that is something that was fixed...of course I could be wrong, but that is what my mind is telling me...are you sure they don't behave properly? I will try myself and let you know...


Later,

[dbaldacchino]

Luigi,

I have not seen the previous behavior of affecting the view's view range settings. That might have been corrected. But you cannot change the view depth for a specified plan region "looking up". Essentially a plan region works just like it does in a plan view (looking down) and changes the cut plane, but not the view depth (cannot look upwards). So you cannot use it in a similr fashion to a plan (cannot use it to see ceilings that are higher then the ceiling plan's view range's view depth settings).

[Steve_Stafford]

Plan regions were designed to affect host and hosted objects relative to cut display. The condition you are describing isn't what the feature was designed for. As suggested, view depth is what is intended to let you "see" further in your view.

[luigi]

I am getting mixed results...

I am able to see walls and ceilings that are well above into my RCP (RCP and walls from level 2 with a high offset and the RCP view range with unlimited view range, it's gray, with unlimited top, it is dark)

I have tried setting the ceiling and the walls higher and higher and they are not visible without the view range and they are visible with the view range...

So when I change the view depth, it actually allows me to see as far up as I have set... even 50-60' up...

:S

Luigi,

I have not seen the previous behavior of affecting the view's view range settings. That might have been corrected. But you cannot change the view depth for a specified plan region "looking up". Essentially a plan region works just like it does in a plan view (looking down) and changes the cut plane, but not the view depth (cannot look upwards). So you cannot use it in a similr fashion to a plan (cannot use it to see ceilings that are higher then the ceiling plan's view range's view depth settings).

[dbaldacchino]

You are correct Steve...I was just expecting plan regions to work in ceiling plans in a similar fashion to regular plans. Modifying the view's view range (setting the view depth) is the only way around it. I just had to clean up some linework that I didn't want to see.

The only drawback of this is that for instance I had made the decision to show some of these ceilings on the second floor plan RCP (such as main corridors with high ceilings) instead of the first floor. I thought I'd handle that by setting the view depth lower and then modify these one story high volumes that I wanted to show on the first floor RCP with plan regions. Unfortunately now I'm going to end up with some ceilings showing up on both plans. I don't like showing things twice as that might raise questions, although it shouldn't be a big deal....I'm just picky on how the documents look. I might have to do some masking. Maybe someday we'll get a tool that works in this regard, although I'm not sure how many users actually come across this issue.

Luigi, the reason for the gray linework when setting the view depth to unlimited is because it uses the "beyond" linestyle. When objects fall beyond the bottom clip plane (top clip plane in case of a ceiling plan) but within the view depth setting, they're drawn using the "beyond" linestyle. When they fall within the Bottom/Top Clip plane, they're displayed with the object's "Projection" setting for it's category (or by whatever is set in the view's overrides).

[luigi]

Hi Dave, I am quite aware in why it is gray with view depth, I was just illustrating that it seemed to be behaving normally for me...now it is possible that I just haven't understood what you are trying to do...


I am able to look up into my ceiling at a different depth than my RCP...so if I have a ceiling at 18' from 1st level, and my view depth is set to 14' for my RCP, I am able to put a plan region and tell it to show me the 18' ceiling....

Is this what you were trying to do? I have read and re-read your initial post and It reads as if you have a problem using a plan region on your first floor reflected ceiling plan to be able to see your 18' ceiling, when your RCP top plane is set to 14'

Is this correct? because I have done it and it works for me....are we on the same page?

[luigi]

Hey heck, I have been even successful in placing a Plan region on my second floor where my second floor's view depth is 2nd floor with 0' offset....and I tell the plan region to have it's cut plan lower into first floor with an unlimited view depth and top plane...and it cuts it correctly and I am looking up (or down into the RCP)


So it is working for me in both directions....boy..maybe I am missing what you are trying to do...

[dbaldacchino]

Haha this is getting to be funny :) Let me post an example....working on it.

[dbaldacchino]

Here's an illustration. Take a look at the Ceiling Plan "Level 1". The view's View Range settings are set as follows: Top Plane - Level 2 (0 offset) and View Depth - Level 2 (0 offset). So the ceiling at 18'-0" cannot be seen unless the Top plane and the View Depth are changed. I thought that by placing a plan region and setting the view range settings of this plan region, I would be able to see the ceiling, but it doesn't work that way....plan regions look "down" and are not designed to work that way. My logic surely got this one wrong and I honestly would have never expected it to work this way.

[luigi]

Hi David...look at my file...why am I able to do what is shown? :?

[luigi]

Here is your original file back, after I "played" with it ;)

I don't know what this means, weather it works, or wheather we found a backdoor to counteract the "bug" LOL

[dbaldacchino]

LOL!! What the heck did you do?!!?

EDIT: Are you on a different build than I am?
Autodesk Revit Building 9 - 20060518_2300

[luigi]

LOL!! What the heck did you do?!!?

EDIT: Are you on a different build than I am?
Autodesk Revit Building 9 - 20060518_2300
I'll tell you in a minute, it's finishing printing somehting...but I believe it is the june build....

[luigi]

No...we are on the same build....

[dbaldacchino]

Well the weird thing is that I see it all working in your file and when I delete the plan region, the ceiling disappears. But in my original file, it doesn't work. How did you "fix" my file? This is driving me nuts haha. What are you doing up at the office at 11:15pm?!

[dbaldacchino]

FOUND IT!!

If your plan region's cut plane is set to the same value as your view's cut plane, it doesn't work. If the plan region's cut plane is set above or below the view's cut plane, then it shows the ceiling! This just seems odd to me. But it works!

[dbaldacchino]

Ok, I thought there was some logic to this, but it seems that it doesn't follow it.

I was going to post a file to explain all this and realized that something weird is still going on. Take a look at the attached file. I was going to illustrate that a plan region with a cut plane set at the view's cut plane wouldn't work as expected but two other plan regions with a cut plane higher or lower than the view's cut plane and with higher view depth and top plane settings, would yield the expected results. Well, once I placed the second plan region 'B', the first plan region 'A' (cut plane is the same as view's cut plane with unlimited view depth and top plane) started showing the ceiling!

Now here comes more weird behavior....delete plan region 'A'. The ceiling disappears but in 'B' it still shows. Now undo so ceiling in 'A' shows again and this time delete 'B'. Both ceilings in 'B' and 'A' disappear. Now that should not happen. Something has to be working incorrectly.

Thanks again Luigi for your time :)

[luigi]

Yes David it is quite inconsistent, I mean at first I was trying in my project and it worked, that is why I posted, but then when I looked at your file, it wouldn't work...so I thought it was something with the template used for your file, so I created a brand new file with no template and I couldn't get it to work...but it was too weird, since I had it working in my project file...so I kept playing with various scenarios until it worked for me.....and I did the same with your file, and eventually it did work...

Here is the real strange thing, once I had it working, I would set all the view ranges (RCP and Plan region) as the original file you gave me, but it behaved properly showing the ceiling....so

if nobody can come up with a logical explanation why sometime it works or not...it is officially a bug eating bug LOL

Spero che il tuo finesettimana andra' bene!!!!!

Luigi

[dbaldacchino]

Yeah I'm going to file an SR on this one.

Mille grazie e spero che questo Lunedi' sara' un bel riposo per te'...per me sara' piu' lavoro!

[truevis]

]....I'm just picky on how the documents look. I might have to do some masking. Maybe someday we'll get a tool that works in this regard...[/size]
Filters.

You can make a filter on any parameter of objects. You can add that filter to your view and turn its visibility off. Gives a ton of flexibility of how things are displayed.

[dbaldacchino]

Good tip. I've started using filters as of lately for a number of things, including turning off visibility of certain elements in enlarged elevations and to create floor plan views with only certain walls turned on (so I can quickly select doors and assign the appropriate head/jamb details with a few clicks). Now If only there was a way to control visibility of hosted objects based on the visibility of their hosts.....

[truevis]

...Now If only there was a way to control visibility of hosted objects based on the visibility of their hosts.....
You can add parameters to anything and make filers on them. So just add a parameters for doors, windows, walls, etc. (probably integer) and make filters.

[dbaldacchino]

Oh sure, I know that's possible. What I'm suggesting is a little different though....I just want to quickly make a selection based on the doors attached to a particular wall, instead of having to select them one by one. When using filters to turn off walls, those doors hosted by invisible walls are still visible. I wouldn't want to spend the time to make parameters to turn them off, as I can just as easily assign the information I need to assign instead :)