Revit is very slow on my 1,000,000 SF health care building

[AP23]

We are working on a 1 million square feet health care building and we are now in SD. This is the office first big project in Revit and it looks like it will be the last too.

Getting the firm to switch completely to Revit in the long run is probably not feasible, but I hope we can get this project to CD. The project architect has suggested to switch to AutoCAD or even give Archicad a try as it is obviously the better tool at this moment.We need to come up with solutions fast before entering DD, otherwise the project will continue in AutoCAD or VW what the office owns already

One of our biggest problems is the slowness of Revit what makes the workflow very inefficient. Today, It took me 10 minutes to move 3 walls and add a few room tags. Most of the day everyone is just waiting until Revit recalculates everything. Plus the save to central is just horrible. We are way behind schedule just because of this slowness. Everyone is working on Dell Precision 490. The model itself is very very clean, we only have walls, simple clean windows, rooms and over 100 schedules. So nothing is over modeled and still everything is extremely slow. I have done everything that was mentioned in previous posts, but nothing really helps. I don't even want to think about the problems we will get with groups, keynotes, lack of site tools, adding more information to the model, modeling some organic parts of the interior of the building, etc. when entering DD.

Any suggestions?

[..shaner]

worksets worksets worksets
and
get a better computer

we are running p4 dual processor 3.0ghz(which revit dosnt support yet)
256meg video cards and 2 gigs or ram

id suggest at least double that if your working on a 1 million sqft building

[sbrown]

Revit is not for the impatient. Have you sent your file to support for their take? They need to see it. How is your project broken up?

[robert.manna]

Million square feet, I think I would have at least 4 different models then I'm down to 250,000 per model and on top of that 3 gigs of RAM with the 3gb switch turned on.

Whew, nothing like taking a big piece of pie all at once....

-R

[AP23]

Because we are yet in SD the project is just one file with 6 worksets. 1 worksets is for the grids and levels and all other worksets are sections of the building. So you would have the ER in one worksets as that is one wing of the building

We all have patients, until the money runs out and the deadline can't be reached.

[robert.manna]

If the building has distinct wings I think I would copy and paste them into their own files. And then have worksets within each file. Is it all one story or multi-story? Worksets can be containers for more than just the walls & grids. If you have multiple floors I would have a workset per floor. If it is all spread out accross one story, then I would start to divide it up somehow, dept, focus area, use type... The advantage of a multi-story building is that it is easy to create divisions. However, even if you are one story, Revit doesn't care, but its going to be happier for the end user if you find a way to divide it up, since you don't have the "natural" division of floor to floor.

-R

[luigi]

Because we are yet in SD the project is just one file with 6 worksets. 1 worksets is for the grids and levels and all other worksets are sections of the building. So you would have the ER in one worksets as that is one wing of the building

We all have patients, until the money runs out and the deadline can't be reached.Maybe you are already doing this, but is the team opening only the worksets they are working on? I mean, dividing it in worksets are great, but unless you "close" those worksets you won't notice a difference in speed....

[Dimitri Harvalias]

May not be the whole answer but every little bit helps.
Confirm that room volumes are not being recalculated on the fly. From the settings menu choose Room and Area Settings. Uncheck Compute Room Volumes.
As others have suggested, selective opening of worksets should help a great deal.

[..shaner]

another thing, we dont place 3d plumbing fixtures, millwork or lighting unless we are going to do an interir view, so if you have alot of typical suites you can eliminate the 3d components in those rooms, we also dont model suites in revit if we have a bunch or typical ones. we make a suite plan which shows each type of suite and the overall model is just taged "suite a", "suite b",etc that has greatly helped even in our 200,000 sqft condo's that we've been doing in revit

[Scott D Davis]

Today, It took me 10 minutes to move 3 walls and add a few room tags. Most of the day everyone is just waiting until Revit recalculates everything. Plus the save to central is just horrible.
i have a feeling your network is suspect. Are you on a Gigabit network? If a workset file is taking a long time to save, and you are having a hard time manipulating data, your network connection may be the problem. Every time you touch something thats in a workset, Revit has to talk to the central file over the network to see if anyone else has control.

How big is this file? Definately start using selectively opened worksets. No one working on a 1,000,000 SF project should be opening the whole model at a time. You should only be opening a slect piece of the model at a time through worksets.

You need to get Revit Support involved if you are having these kinds of issues.

[neb1998]

yeah i think jobs of that size your going to need a little of every post here.....As much horsepower as possible and as many shortcuts as possible (worksets, linked files, etc)

And out of curiosity what was the size of your last project (or largest to date) finished with revit?

[dbaldacchino]

And make sure you compact the central frequently if you have a lot of users saving to it. And if you do, then it would be a good idea to create new locals daily (or after saving to central, select Save As and check the Compact File option). If you don't do this regularly, you'll get bogged down real quick.

[BWG]

Do you by chance have an autocad dwg linked in. I am working on a project with a large site plan linked in and it is very slow to place components and such. I am working off the site plan because it has a lot of info I need as I go, so hopefully in a few days, I can lose the file. I try to stay away from dwg links.

[dbaldacchino]

In our RS file, we faced a weird issue with dwgs (still on my list of SR's to file!). It's got to do with ADT probably, because if the scale is set in ADT to something other than what the scale is set in Revit's drafting view, it takes 6 times longer to open the link....At one point our 30MB RS file was taking 35 minutes to open and most dwgs were less than 90kb (about 100 of them). Once we corrected the scale in ADT (by pure luck after wasting days troubleshooting), the model started opening in just a few minutes.

[s.messing]

First and foremost, DON'T PANIC! I was in your shoes about three weeks ago because suddenly one of our biggest projects was starting to get cumbersome. If you haven't seen my THREAD (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=45580), I highly recommend you check it out. The RUGI regulars and Co. come together and offer very pointed and time tested advice. The week after I posted, I began my efforts to revitalize the project. I went through our model and scraped away everything I could.

I got the team together for a sit down and we discussed, in great detail, what sorts of issues were specifically slowing us down. The users working on the project had to see that (instead of playing the blame game and accusing Revit, the users, and everyone else of being the culprit) we need to be a team that works together, communicates regularly, makes intelligent and informed design/ modeling decisions, and can influence our own efficiency within Revit. We (together) went through the file. We purged hundreds of unused families, deleted views, and line weights. We removed/ deleted/ destroyed anything that was not being used: details, groups, unnecessary dwgs. We also reviewed best practice issues that should be standard in the office. For example, opening selected worksets should be a given (especially on a big project with multiple concurrent users).

By the end of the meeting, everyone was much more relaxed about our situation. 1. They knew that other people in other firms were struggling with similar issues. 2. They had a hard copy printout of best practices for performance optimization. 3. They saw a variety of ways to keep the file clean (purging, etc.). 4. And they all came together and communicated as a group.

Even now, our project is by no means perfect, and any project is definitely in a dangerous place at all times because the lowest common denominator is the user. The user can muck up/ slow down a file in a matter of minutes and it could take a lot of hard work to discover the snafu. What I am trying to do is get enough users at a high level on each project so that they can work together to solve their problems (so I can move on to more important things!).

And finally (and probably most importantly) from a personal standpoint, I love the ride. Using Revit has been like a roller coaster from day to day, week to week, on every project. No two days are alike. There's always someone who knows more or has a cool workaround that I haven't thought of yet. It's tough to not have all the answers, especially when I come to find out that Revit doesn't do something that I think it should. But I will say this: I am much happier to be a part of something that is not "doing just enough to get by". Even though we (as everyday users) want more, better, faster, we need to find the right line between want and need; between being desirous and being greedy. And, as all experienced Revit users will tell you (and in the words of George Harrison: "it's gonna take patience and time."

Keep smiling. Good luck. Keep posting.
Stephen

[AP23]

Some additional information:

The building consist out of 7 worksets. Each workset is linked to a building block. These blocks are placed on a 1 storey plinth and garage, so the blocks are not separate buildings. Plus, the blocks are also connected with an atrium roof, so you can't build each block in a separate file. The file size is about 120 MB at the moment.

[neb1998]

Some additional information:

The building consist out of 7 worksets. Each workset is linked to a building block. These blocks are placed on a 1 storey plinth and garage, so the blocks are not separate buildings. Plus, the blocks are also connected with an atrium roof, so you can't build each block in a separate file. The file size is about 120 MB at the moment.
Well the good news is that you can make about any building type managable within revit, i have started some large models that later i had to completly reconfigure because my initial concepts overloaded the program. Might take a few tries to figure out how exactly to organize the file, but each project is so much different i would suggest you either get a consultant to look at the project directly that specializes in this.

The bad news is reconfiguring a model once it starts can be nearly impossible without making a bigger mess of things.

Wouldnt it be great if revit supported hardware that was available 2 years ago!?! Guess increased performance is along the same lines of priority as an areal tool.

[robert.manna]

Plus, the blocks are also connected with an atrium roof, so you can't build each block in a separate file.
I'm not clear on why you couldn't build it as seperate linked models, even with an atrium roof. I would potentially have a file for each block, linked into a master file with the atrium etc. In v9 the increased functionality of links makes this feasible.

I would also consider having the parking garage(s) as sperate models, either one big garage model or smaller seperate garages.


The file size is about 120 MB at the moment.
You shouldn't be seeing these problems with a 120mb file. I think 90% of our projects are 120 mb or larger. We have seen problems similiar to yours in one office where there are know network issues, which is a problem someone else has brought up in this thread.

[greg.mcdowell]

You shouldn't be seeing these problems with a 120mb file.Agreed... file size seems to have little to do with how the database responds. Fewer constraints, fewer relationships between elements, fewer hosted elements... these all seem to help. I'm not sure how much object count matters yet (meaning, is it better to have a wall start at the 1st level and move all the way through or better to have them as separate walls between levels... not sure yet).

Crazy idea here but how far along are you again... and can you find time to recreate the model (likely a bit quicker now that you know the building better) in an effort to make a more manageable database?

[mschroeder]

Here's my 2cents.

Highrise Residential or Multi Unit Projects (200+ units)


Workflow:

Local save every half hour or so.
STC (save to central) every hour.
Stagger STC's to prevent central file lockout.
Open a simple drafting view and close hidden windows before saving.
Create new local every couple days by copying the central file instead of opening and "save as".


Worksets:

Few large functional worksets (e.g. Shell, Core, Interior, Units, Levels & Grids, Linked Models, Hidden Stuff)
Have users "Specify" worksets to open when opening local file.
In CD's have users bulk check out VIEW worksets they will be editing. Prevents Revit from asking to borrow every single line segment, tag you touch.
Do not allow users to "make editable" user created worksets.


Groups:

"Disallow Join" on the end of walls within a group that touch walls outside of group.
Do not include exterior shell walls in unit groups.
Set wall height to unconnected not level above.
Do not use model lines in groups.
Do not nest groups within your unit groups.
Do not include furniture or 3D counters, cabinets or ceilings in groups.
Ensure that groups base point is on a known location (grid intersection) and not vertically offset.
Avoid placing groups "on top" of other groups. This can and does happen frequently with large projects. You can usually detect them when your wall joins don't look right.


File Linking:

Separate Site model and link with shared coordinates.
Separate Structure model and link with shared coordinates.
Separate distinct buildings if they are to be part of a separate deliverable.
Link Models on a "Linked Models" or similar workset, so you can selectively load them without disturbing everyone else.


Hardware:

4GB RAM - enable 3GB switch.
3+ Ghz
Graphics - not an issue when you disable openGL.


Revit Settings:

Settings>Options...> Disable OpenGL, Enable Overlay planes
..

[Wes Macaulay]

Disable OpenGL? Why? You get several % better performance with it on, more in 3D views, and much, much better performance with shadows on...

[mschroeder]

Strike that... Wes: Unless you are absolutely confident that your graphics hardware and driver packages are fully compatible with memory intense applications, then I would suggest turning it off.

[ron.sanpedro]

Hi Andrew: Unless you are absolutely confident that your graphics hardware and driver packages are fully compatible with memory intense applications, then I would suggest turning it off.

Only until I spend the $150 on an ATI FireGL v3100, which pays for itself in time saved in maybe a week to a month, and pays for itself in frustration saved in about 45 seconds ;)
I would also argue that getting a fully Revit ready machine is required for any Revit project of appreciable size, and really should just be considered a cost of doing business. Those old $500 CAD Machines just can't run Revit, and Managment must be disabused of any notion that they can, even temporarily.

Just my $0.02 anyway.

Gordon

[Steve_Stafford]

Networking:
Wiring - Does it support the demand and specs of the equipment? Can't assume it does and IT doesn't always fully appreciate or believe how bandwidth hungry Revit can be.

Gigabyte - switches/routers and nics

Server - is this server also your plot spool, general file server for everyone in the firm? Try isolating the project to a relatively unused server. A sever that has a heavy demand has its "hands" full, don't make it worse by using it for your Revit projects too.

Network sniffer - check the actual performance of your network is it really working correctly.
If you can't afford a tool to do this then hire someone to do it. A testing device will help prove that the performance you expect is delivered.

Testing - You can also isolate the entire project and team to a small peer to peer gigabyte wired network. It only takes one bad router, switch, wire, nic to mess up a good thing. Recently a client's team did this to prove the network was really partially to blame for poor performance, once isolated things improve quite a bit. Take this route if the first three issues are a factor. Consider tha IT can afford to set up a small network more easily/quickly than completely revamping the whole office infrustructure

[AP23]

While I'm creating a complete set of new worksets and see if this will work, I'm faced with a new problem. All of the exterior walls have been modeled up to the next floor. Now I need to replace each exterior wall with one wall that starts from the ground floor all the way up to the roof. However, I can't freeze the windows in place, delete the single walls, stretch the ground floor wall all the way up to the top and unfreeze the windows that will cut nicely in the wall. I tried to copy/paste the windows into another file where the walls have been edited and the windows deleted, but it doesn't work. Deleting all 800 + windows and replacing them manually isn't an option.

[robert.manna]

Ah, this seems opposite from our own experiences. We have generally started projects with exterior walls (not including curtain wall/systems) that went the full height of the building, and as we progressed through "DD" and "CD" phases, found that the walls needed to be broken down to floor to floor to help aliveate wall join problems, as Revit does not always deal well with interior single story partitions joining in different places to a multi-story wall. I would also avoid stacked walls on large compelx projects. "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid) and stick with basic walls. In the end it means more adjusting manually, but you probably won't be tearing your hair out at the 9th hour. I would also avoid constraining walls to walls, though "pin" can be very useful and helpful.

HTH,
-R

[AP23]

Yeah, but either way, you can't keep the windows in place. You need to delete them, build the wall and place the windows manually which isn't very efficient. You can't just do a simple "copy, create and paste".

[Wes Macaulay]

That's happened to us as well. Andrew, copy your walls a distance of zero -- the walls will of course overlap but the windows will copy too. Do this for as many storeys are required.

Then edit the properties of the wall so that it spans level-to-level. You'll get a warning that windows are deleted -- that's fine.

This is tedious, but better than starting from scratch.

[luigi]

Yeah, but either way, you can't keep the windows in place. You need to delete them, build the wall and place the windows manually which isn't very efficient. You can't just do a simple "copy, create and paste".I am not sure why you would have a problem...I have done this and there are no issues...

If you select ALL of your windows and Ctrl-X (cutting them) and then delete all of your unwanted walls and make the 1st level wall go up to roof...
then just Paste into current view (make sure you are in plan) and it's all done...

Not too complicated...especially if you already have to go to the process of getting rid of so many walls...

[luigi]

That's happened to us as well. Andrew, copy your walls a distance of zero -- the walls will of course overlap but the windows will copy too. Do this for as many storeys are required.

Then edit the properties of the wall so that it spans level-to-level. You'll get a warning that windows are deleted -- that's fine.

This is tedious, but better than starting from scratch.
Hi Wes, but I believe Andrew's case is the opposite? He has the walls spanning level to level and wants it one wall from floor to roof. Robert has the that issue you mentioned, but has a solution...

[Wes Macaulay]

Oh. :Oops: Yeah, Luigi -- you're right. And your tip will work, too!

[luigi]

Wes, you do so much for so many...you shouldn't be :Oops:

But, not to digress too much from Andrew's problem, but can't one just split the wall horizontally? That should work and not cause too many issues?



Oh. :Oops: Yeah, Luigi -- you're right. And your tip will work, too!

[hausmeister25]

Hi Andrew, refering to your 1.000.000 sf building, a similar thing happend to me!
The same has happened to me, when I was partly working on a big Airport. We only did the lounges for the airport. 50% of the office was switched to work with Revit. Having put most of the information into the program, the workflow got slower and after 1/2 a year we had to switch back to AutoCad. I think, Revit is not built for large projects, yet, without facing any pain.