Want a curved wall challenge?

[chris_3302]

I was curious if anyone could figure this out for me, cause I give up! I am trying to get a curved wall to have the top face flat as it curves up. Right now I have a reference plane to which my wall is attached and it creates a sloping surface that tilts as it goes up (see image). I appreciate any input! Thanks!

[Justin Marchiel]

is it a constant slope? If so you could edit the sketch profile and you should get the desired result.

I belive that this should work and not reference plane would be required.

Justin

[luigi]

But you can't edit the profile of a curved wall...:Oops:
is it a constant slope? If so you could edit the sketch profile and you should get the desired result.

I belive that this should work and not reference plane would be required.

Justin

[dsw98]

Couldn't you just create a Mass or a Generic Model?

[luigi]

I was curious if anyone could figure this out for me, cause I give up! I am trying to get a curved wall to have the top face flat as it curves up. Right now I have a reference plane to which my wall is attached and it creates a sloping surface that tilts as it goes up (see image). I appreciate any input! Thanks!Sweep won't work, because the beginning profile is different then the end...
Blend won't work because it blends along a single straight path...
extrude won't work...well, because it is extrude...
revolve won't work because of same issues of sweep...

You can't do that in revit....

Please somebody tell me that I am wrong...

[luigi]

BTW...the tool Revit would need to achieve that is a combination sweep/blend....it has been requested, but it will be a while before it is included...unless somebody from the "ateb" team spelled backwords can give a suspicious conspiracy remark... :)




Sweep won't work, because the beginning profile is different then the end...
Blend won't work because it blends along a single straight path...
extrude won't work...well, because it is extrude...
revolve won't work because of same issues of sweep...

You can't do that in revit....

Please somebody tell me that I am wrong...

[robert.manna]

Worst case scenario, to just get some geometry in the model, you could model it in some other program, port a dwg into a generic family, and throw the family in place.

Now... I agree with Luigi's quick surmise. However, without getting my head into it, I bet you could do it with masses, using a combination of the solid tools & voids to form and cut...

We had an intern who built an eagle (or something large bird) to stick on top of a building, if she could do that, then some fairly basic geometry should be possible....

If I have time tonight I'll screw around with it, I like a good challenge. :)

-R

[jamie.casile80054]

you could build an in place family and use a sweep and then a void to change the height of the wall.

good luck,
jamie

[robert.manna]

you could build an in place family and use a sweep and then a void to change the height of the wall.

good luck,
jamie
I would still try to do it as a mass, as you could then assign a basic wall to the face of the mass, as opposed to an in-place family, which would just show up as a hunk of something...

Mass & In-Place give you access to the same basic tools, so in this case it doesn't matter as much.

-R

[luigi]

Like I said...I hope I am wrong...but a void is nothing but a solid that cuts...the basic 4 types of geometry builders are extrude,revolve,sweep,blend and the geometry in question is basically a sweep along a curve that blends a short rectangle to a tall rectange....it sounds simple, but not easily made with only those 4 tools at hand....but again....I hope I am wrong...




Worst case scenario, to just get some geometry in the model, you could model it in some other program, port a dwg into a generic family, and throw the family in place.

Now... I agree with Luigi's quick surmise. However, with getting my head into it, I bet you could do it with masses, using a combination of the solid tools & voids to form and cut...

We had an intern who built an eagle (or something large bird) to stick on top of a building, if she could do that, then some fairly basic geometry should be possible....

If I have time tonight I'll screw around with it, I like a good challenge. :)

-R

[jamie.casile80054]

that's true about the wall type. although, you can still give your sweep/extrusion a wall category - in case the massing doesn't work right.
-jamie

[gflinn]

I've done this half a dozen times. You can use the roof by extrusion. You sketch in your profile slope that you want. Then you do an edit cut plan profile of the shape of your wall (with it being just wide enough to attach to this roof.

[robert.manna]

I agree with ya :). But I still think it is doable...I think I would start with a really big extrusion... And start cutting from there. I've got a commute home coming up in 20 mins.... We'll see. :)

-R

[luigi]

I would still try to do it as a mass, as you could then assign a basic wall to the face of the mass, as opposed to an in-place family, which would just show up as a hunk of something...

Mass & In-Place give you access to the same basic tools, so in this case it doesn't matter as much.

-RI just tried attaching a wall to a face, and it didn't even use the face properly...it made a curved wall, but the top of the wall wasn't effected by it....

[jamie.casile80054]

ok, i just took a 2 min shot at this in revit. you can just draw a curved wall. then use an in-place void (in an elevation view) that extrudes. use cut geometry for the wall. seems to work fine.
good luck.
jamie

[robert.manna]

I just tried attaching a wall to a face, and it didn't even use the face properly...it made a curved wall, but the top of the wall wasn't effected by it....
Do you have a pic? I've used masses to create complex wall shapes in the past without a problem. Granted they weren't quite as complex as this... It might not work...

Might have to go with an in-place family as Jamie suggusted.

GFlinn I'm curious about the roof thing, I'm not picturing in my head how that helps....

-R

[luigi]

ok, i just took a 2 min shot at this in revit. you can just draw a curved wall. then use an in-place void (in an elevation view) that extrudes. use cut geometry for the wall. seems to work fine.
good luck.
jamieHi Jamie, I think, as the drawing is illustrated, that Chris doesn't have a problem creating what you have described....

either cutting the wall with a void created in elevation, or attaching the top to a ref plane has the same effect....since the constant of the elevation view (both ref plane or void) should not be constant..it should bend in plan like the wall to get the effect he is looking for....

[luigi]

Do you have a pic? I've used masses to create complex wall shapes in the past without a problem. Granted they weren't quite as complex as this... It might not work...

Might have to go with an in-place family as Jamie suggusted.

GFlinn I'm curious about the roof thing, I'm not picturing in my head how that helps....

-R
they must have not been curved walls....curved walls are a different monster than straight walls...

the only object I was able to "successfully" use is a curtain system...but as we know...it isn't a single surface, but a few faceted straight panels....

[gflinn]

GFlinn I'm curious about the roof thing, I'm not picturing in my head how that helps....

-R

Here is the first time I used this technique. You want the top surface to be parallel with ground (flat). It is similar to editing the wall profile of a straight wall. With the roof by extrusion you can define the new profile of the curved wall.

[luigi]

Using the "Mass" option and then attaching the objects to it "by face"

[luigi]

Here is the first time I used this technique. You want the top surface to be parallel with ground (flat). It is similar to editing the wall profile of a straight wall. With the roof by extrusion you can define the new profile of the curved wall.
I am sorry, but can you clarify a little bit more...I mean, where in this image is the curved wall with a constant flat top along the curved path? Can you point to it, or blow it up?

[luigi]

A last post for me on this thread...at least for a while...

[jamie.casile80054]

heres the quick take at the curved wall.
sorry for the delay...
-jamie

[dsw98]

I'v noticed that the top of the wall in the picture is beveled. How is someone pulling that one off?

[luigi]

heres the quick take at the curved wall.
sorry for the delay...
-jamieHi Jamie, but if you look at the original picture of Chris...he already has that type of wall...and all he did was attach to the ref.line

the problem is that he needs the top of the wall to be but perpendicular (on both inside and outside) of the curved wall...so if you cut a section at any given point...the section will show a perfect rectangle...currently it will show an angled top....no 90 degrees....

Do you see what he is trying to achieve?

[luigi]

whose picture?




I'v noticed that the top of the wall in the picture is beveled. How is someone pulling that one off?

[dsw98]

The original picture, the first attachment.

[gflinn]

Here are some close ups. The wall pieces here have both a flat top and bottom and one end of the wall slopes from high to low. Hope this helps.

[chris_3302]

I have tried to void the extrusion, sweep, etc... and the void can only cut at one angle, which in return keeps a slope on the top face. I totally agree (and hope I'm wrong too) with Luigi on saying that the 4 options on creating masses does not allow the top face to stay flat. I knew that the title "Want a curved wall challenge?" was a good title. : ) I appreciate all the input so far!!!!!!!

[luigi]

Here are some close ups. The wall pieces here have both a flat top and bottom and one end of the wall slopes from high to low. Hope this helps.It's still difficult to tell...but in the 3d view..it looks like the one end is perpendicular, but the other (bottom) is sloped...

It's possible to get one end perpendicular...but I don't see how one can have both ends perpendicular with Revit tools....

Can you post just that object, without the whole project?

gflinn make me a believer in you!!!! :)

[chris_3302]

Here are some more upclose pictures of what I'm trying to accomplish:

Challenge copy: The bottom of the curved wall is perpindicular (which is what I want) but as the curved wall begins to go up, it keeps the same slope which makes the top of the wall at a slope.

Challenge bottom: See how the bottom has the two end points the same distance from the ground. That's what I want at the top.

Challenge close: Here is the curved wall upclose for those who are confused on what wall I'm talking about.

Challenge Top: Here is the top of that curved wall which the two end points are NOT the same distance from the ground.

So the questions remains, how can I get the top of the curved wall to have the ends be the same distance from the ground? I believe Luigi said it best saying, "if you cut a section at any given point...the section will show a perfect rectangle".

[Steve_Stafford]

Phil Read shared a file that accomplishes this sort of "wall" before. Attached it is...

[jamie.casile80054]

ok, hello. guess i wasn't understanding the objective clearly. i apologize.
so, here is my idea. what if you use the void sweep? i believe it is possible make a 3d sweep path. use the sweep path along the top of your wall line and then stick a flat bottomed profile for the void.
aloha,
jamie

[luigi]

Phil Read shared a file that accomplishes this sort of "wall" before. Attached it is...
NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

That Phil Guy has his mind always outside the "box"...!!!!

[Chris4d]

looks like that family works, but just curious -- would a curved ramp accomplish the same thing?

[Scott D Davis]

looks like that family works, but just curious -- would a curved ramp accomplish the same thing?yes, but a curved ramp wont host doors and windows like a curved wall will. And a curved ramp will need to either sit on a base, or slope all the way to the "grade" level.

[robert.manna]

Man, I knew it could be done, I just wish I could remember more of all that math I learned in high school. Maybe I should've taken more in college. :) Cool family though.... Theoritaclly you could build it in place in a project either with masses or in-place families so that it is an actual wall. You could use the family to define the exact numbers you would need of the exact situation. Unless copy past would work.... From a family to a project...

-R

[Scott D Davis]

Interesting find on the Phil Read family attached here: I opened it, and its a Generic Model family....not a mass. But, once loaded into a project, you can use the massing tools, and select Wall By Face, and attach a wall to the family! Only one problem....it doesn't conform to the sloping top. :-( So, I did Roof By Face on the top, and then attached the wall to the curving-sloping roof. That works! Now if we could only turn off the roof by itself if not needed.

So not sure how this all helps, but, we've attached a Wall by Face to a Generic Model??? Of course, this would all not be necessary if we had a LOFT TOOL in Revit.

For those on Revit Series, make the loft in AutoCAD 2007, import it to a mass family, place the mass family in Revit, then apply walls by face. This works for sure, as I've demonstaated here in another topic.

[chris_3302]

Well it looks like it will work!!! THANKS PHIL!!! Thanks Steve for bringing it to our attention. Now the only thing left is to get approval from the Boss. Thanks again guys!

[Andre Baros]

Create an in-place wall family in your project, then insert the generic model while your editing the in place family (which only contains the generic model) once you finish your in-place family, the generic model becomes a wall.

Learned that from Phil last week.

[chris_3302]

Here's what I came up with, using the Phil Read solution. Let me know if you see anything wrong.

[luigi]

BTW...just to be exact....


this wall is a Great workaround...it almost perfect, but this almost perfect is all one needs for this type of wall.....But it is a workaround...it just makes sure that the top of wall and bottom of wall are a good section/end but in the middle it isn't perfect (although maybe it is very close to a 90 degree) so only a loft tool (or a layman's term sweep/blend) will be exact...

[Wes Macaulay]

Yeah, that's an oldie but a goodie. And I learned it from Phil too...

[Scott D Davis]

So, in case this wasn't apparent to everyone, I've confirmed this with the Factory. Both Masses AND Generic Model families will allow you to use the "By Face" tools in the Massing tab of the design bar.

[mschroeder]

Phil's is awesome, but here's one that has a perfectly flat top.

Frankenstein wall stair combo:

Create a circular stair with a handrail.
Export that stair to a SAT file.
Import that SAT file into an in place generic model family.
Use wall by face then roof by face.
Attach wall to roof. Done.

[robert.manna]

That's sick dude... and I thought I had the reputation for using too many programs import/export, etc... That takes the cake. Very cool, and really not too bad to do, just a little extra time and effort.

Nice work. :)

-R

[jeffh]

You could also try this solution from our Knowledge Base. TS79589

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/item?siteID=123112&id=4043026&linkID=3770375

[Graham Briggs]

Thank you Jeff...

When this thread was first posted, I looked for my download of this solution, but I couldn't find it on my current HD. It was originally provided to me by Chris Mahoney over 3 years ago.

I think this is the best solution [currently available] for this challenge. One can only hope that the factory will soon come up with an easier method.

Thanks again,
Graham