Door Types

[ford347]

I use a door schedule with your basics. I use a mark method and every door gets their individual place in the schedule. I now would like to create a door type legend and would like to go about it the right way...I'm a little confused which way to go.

If I create a door legend, which I'm cool with, I can't cut details for the jamb, head and threash-hold conditions, nor would all of these conditions apply to all doors. I need a way to get my details coordinated with the doors. I don't need them parametric necessarily as I'm sure this would involve way more than I'm capable of putting into it. I just need a clean method of keeping my door schedule, showing door types and detailing the different jamb, head, and threash-hold conditions without having to strike all kinds of detail's in interior elevations, etc., as I don't need elevations of all areas containing doors.

I am also curious about another method and to see if anybody has implemented it successfully. I know a lot of people place detail references in their door schedules for jamb conditions etc. and as far as I know this has to be filled out by 'hand', no linking. First, has this caused coordination problems within your plan sets,2, is it a pain to fill out?, 3, is a new feature on the horizon for implementing this link within a schedule, to where you would be able to choose which view your specific section of your schedule is referencing, similar to striking a detail referenced to a drafting view on your plan view?

I would appreciate the help.. Thanks!!

.....I will be running into the same things on the windows too, but I'm sure whatever method is the best, it would use a similar or the same solution to my problem above.

Josh

[Melarch]

I think you are missing the point for Legend views of components. Here is the definition of Legends by Revit.

A legend view is a view in which you define symbols for views on a sheet or for your entire project. You can add dimensions to legend symbols. Legends typically look like tables with one column for graphic symbols and one column for explanatory text. Unlike views, legends can be added to multiple sheets.
Some typical legends include:


Annotation Legend: Displays sheet annotations such as section heads, level markers, spot elevation marks, elevation symbols, keynote symbol, revision tag, element tags, and other symbols that do not represent model objects. Each symbol has an associated piece of descriptive text. All symbols are shown at printed size.
Model Symbol Legend: Displays symbolic representations of model objects with some descriptive text. Typical elements are electrical fixtures, plumbing fixtures, mechanical equipment, and site objects.
Line Styles Legend: Displays a line in a selected line style and text identifying what that line style represents on drawings. Among the uses are fire rating lines, property lines, setback lines, electric wiring, plumbing, utilities, and center lines.
Materials Legend: Displays a sample of a cut or surface pattern and text identifying the material associated with that pattern.
Phasing: Shows a section of wall drawn with a selected graphic override and identifying text.
Any elements that can be placed in drafting views such as detail lines, text, and filled regions.
I can understand your confusion about Legends and the inability to detail the components in Legends by sections or callouts, but this is not what legend views were created. Like you when I worked in AutoCAD or manual drafted documents it was easy to consolidate door and window elevations and plan detail views with sections and callouts, and it was convenient to have all of this information located in one place on one sheet, perhaps. Legends in Revit are not intended to be that complete, instead they are used to create symbols lists like those we create for electrical, HVAC, etc.. The fact that we can include any component object doesn't necessarily extend the functionality of this feature. To re-enforce the point that detailing is really the purpose of the callout tools.

Unlike Legend views which can be placed on multiple sheets, sections, callouts and detailing view can only be placed on one sheet in a project.

Over the last several releases Legend views have added dimensioning and maybe future development of the Revit product will further enhance Legend views to detailing and callout functionality only time will tell.

[dbaldacchino]

We put Head/Jamb/Sill details parameters in the door schedules under the frame section. We've done it by hand for years in ACAD, and in Revit we're automating it a bit by using key schedules.

I set up a key schedule with an entry for H/J/S and grouped rows as follows:

A) HM/STL frame in Interior gyp wall
B) AL frame in Interior gyp wall
C) AL frame in interior CMU wall
D) AL frame in Exterior CFMF with Brick Veneer
E) AL frame in Exterior CMU with Brick Veneer
F) etc....

Then I created some plan views where I turn off everything except doors and a specific type of wall. I used filters for this. (I wish there was a way to turn off doors based on what their host is, but there isn't a way yet). So I had a view for gyp interior walls turned on, one for CMU etc...you get the point.

Then in each view I selected the doors that were not "floating" in space, as they were connected to their host wall. So once I selected them all (for instance all HM frames in gyp wall), then I went to the properties and selected the right key. All those door & frame types were filled out at once. Later, when we shuffled details around to fit properly on sheets, we just filled out the H/J/S entry in the key schedule and everything else updated in the main schedules.

It's all about data management :) If you want to show detail bubbles at the Head/Jamb/Sill, then create some annotation with instance parameters that you can fill out manually. We did this for window frame elevations (used curtain walls for all windows/storefront/curtain walls). The elevation process was done through using worksets and creating 3D views oriented to the mullion plane. They were dimensions in the view and then additional bubble annotation was added directly to the sheet as you cannot add annotation and detail linework to 3D views. It worked great for us.

[sbrown]

Call me old fashioned, but I like to create an elevation view of each window and door type, I then create my details from these views and place the elevation on the same sheet as the schedule with a type number in the schedule, then the details on following sheets. This keeps everything "real". No fake ref. in the schedule. I will also callout the head, jamb and sill details from the wall sections, so its clear to all.

[greg.mcdowell]

You're old fashioned <grin> but not alone... not by a long shot!

I really like "the count's" method and I'm gonna steal it! <evil laughter> To take it one step further I might try creating Filters that displayed which door was using which Key since, unfortunately for now now at least, the door doesn't know who it's Parent is <poor door>

[robert.manna]

I have one more method for you on how you could coordinate the frame details for doors and having a door schedule automatically update...

This wouldn't be totally pretty right now, but I think it is doable to a certain extent. With a little more functionality on the family side of things it would be a perfect method. I'm assuming that some day this will work perfectly, such that I hope to change all our door families to be ready.

If you set up all your door families as frame types for different conditions, you could embed parametric details into each frame to match the conditions the frame is designed to meet. Within the "door" family (which is really just a frame & opening) you could nest a door leaf (or panel, whatever you want to call it). If you nest the leaf as a shared family, you could give the end user a type parameter that would allow them to choose any type of leaf (including any size...), to go with any type of frame. Thus being able to mix and match door frames, and leafs to their hearts content. This follows more the standard practice of the industry, especially when not dealing with pre-hung door units. Furthermore, using this method, you could have left hand and right hand leaves, and remove the flip arrows from your families, this way, the door would be able to auto report its opening direction. (This of course wouldn't prevent someone from using the mirror command, but nothing is perfect...)

Where all of this gets tricky right now is the actual graphical schedule. I imagine that most of you out there are like us, and have neat, nicely formatted schedule that reads across, including number, type mark, frame type, material finish, panel type, material, finish, details, fire rating, etc.. However, given the interoperability of nested shared families right now, it would be tough to create such a pretty schedule. I think the best you could do is to have two schedules, side by side, one for the frame & one for the panel. What is also kinda cool is that you could have a fire rating for frame and panel, so if someone tried to match a 1 hour frame to a 2 hour panel, you would know right away.

Just my 2 cents...
-R

[dbaldacchino]

I really like "the count's" method and I'm gonna steal it! <evil laughter> To take it one step further I might try creating Filters that displayed which door was using which Key since, unfortunately for now now at least, the door doesn't know who it's Parent is <poor door>
Oh man I'm late to claim a patent on it!

The idea of using filters to see what key is assigned to each door is another QC layer which would be very useful in visially checking if you have made the right assignments. Basically you would take one filtered view (which has all the doors shown plus one wall type) and assign an additional filter/s to turn off all doors but the ones using the key schedule assigned to that wall type. If you see openings without doors then you know you missed a few.

I agree with you Robert. I've built our door types in a similar fashion, but scheduling was the reason I opted to not use shared door leafs. Instead I assigned type parameters for the frame and the door leaf (I'm not using Revit's standard parameters as they're not the category I want them to be) and also for the door and frame type. These correspond to our standards, so once the user inserts the correct door in a project, it'll schedule correctly (no more editing each individual parameter).

[ford347]

Thanks a lot you guys! You've all definitly given me a lot to think about, but have described my options well. I really appreciate it!!

Josh

[mregan.209424]

We put Head/Jamb/Sill details parameters in the door schedules under the frame section. We've done it by hand for years in ACAD, and in Revit we're automating it a bit by using key schedules.

I set up a key schedule with an entry for H/J/S and grouped rows as follows:

A) HM/STL frame in Interior gyp wall
B) AL frame in Interior gyp wall
C) AL frame in interior CMU wall
D) AL frame in Exterior CFMF with Brick Veneer
E) AL frame in Exterior CMU with Brick Veneer
F) etc....

Then I created some plan views where I turn off everything except doors and a specific type of wall. I used filters for this. (I wish there was a way to turn off doors based on what their host is, but there isn't a way yet). So I had a view for gyp interior walls turned on, one for CMU etc...you get the point.

Then in each view I selected the doors that were not "floating" in space, as they were connected to their host wall. So once I selected them all (for instance all HM frames in gyp wall), then I went to the properties and selected the right key. All those door & frame types were filled out at once. Later, when we shuffled details around to fit properly on sheets, we just filled out the H/J/S entry in the key schedule and everything else updated in the main schedules.

It's all about data management :) If you want to show detail bubbles at the Head/Jamb/Sill, then create some annotation with instance parameters that you can fill out manually. We did this for window frame elevations (used curtain walls for all windows/storefront/curtain walls). The elevation process was done through using worksets and creating 3D views oriented to the mullion plane. They were dimensions in the view and then additional bubble annotation was added directly to the sheet as you cannot add annotation and detail linework to 3D views. It worked great for us.

Hi dbaldacchino,

Thanks for your advise on the details in door schedule, I know this was written years ago, but I have a questions in regards to it.

I am quite new to Revit, and would like to use your method for keying details in a door schedule, but I seem to be missing something. I understand setting up the key schedule then assigning it to doors.

Where I get lost is how do I tag the detail to the key schedule, or door schedule. Say I have a head detail for a HM door in an interior gyp. wall located on sheet A9.1 detail 2. How do I link that detail to the key schedule?

Thanks for any help.
-Melissa

[dbaldacchino]

Hi Melissa, actually there's no way to link it. You just type in the information as text (in a text parameter for Head, Jamb & Sill); for example A1/A405. The key schedule helps you organize the data and fill it in once for each wall/frame combination. Every door that you assigned to that combination is then updated automatically.