Shaded with Edges Colors - Unpredictable

[DanielleAnderson]

There is an interiors project in our office that has been started in Revit. The project is entirely peopled with new users who just spent 3 days in off-site training. The shell & core models were built by a summer intern who is very proficient in Revit. I jumped onto the project for a couple of days to get them through to their deadline which was last night. I can't say that I have really ever used revit to do detailed interiors that have special wall materials, graphics, carpets, apholstery, etc. and I have to say that it is not the greatest. I'm not really criticizing the software, it makes sense that interiors elements would have to be "representational", but I'm wondering if anyone has any tricks to improve the look and feel of non-rendered perspective views. For example, when applying colors to elements in a shaded with edges view, what you get is not at all what you picked. This is a huge problem. When I've got an interior designer coming to me with a paint swatch and wanting me to make the wall that color, even if it has a pantone value, Revit can't seem to match it. The wall in question was a sort of light-steel-blue wall. In some perspective views it came out fairly legitimate in color, in others it came out white. I did not have any shading turned on in either. I'm just looking for a way to get more accurate colors so that I am not always having to apologize for the software and then tell the interior designer that to get the colors she wants, she'll have to export to photoshop and doctor it up there.
Anybody have any suggestions? I've included an image that illustrates what is going on.

[Justin Marchiel]

I would think that since it is not a true rendering, would probably wont get the colours you want all the time. I believe that the colours are just a representation of the selected colour + the way you look at it, and the way that REVIT throw generic light at it.

To get better colours, you are really subjected to doing a rendering. then you get a better degree of "realism".

I dont have much experience with using a coloured view for presentation, so i might be way off. Anyone else?

[luigi]

Hi Danielle,

there is no way to control the shaded views...many factors changing the luminosity of the color...

you could use Jeffrey McGrew's technique...you could search in these forums, or you could look at the AU2005 class notes of DV14-1 "From Model tto Marvelous: stunning Presentations in Autodesk Revit Building" Page 6 (shameless plug for my friend Jeffrey)

He explains how you can use shaded colors to get exact color representaion, instead of shaded view...so you would have a color hidden view drawing with shadows, but no luminosity....

I hope you find all you need...


Take care,

[luigi]

oh...if you still want shaded views...and you want true "white" then make the white material "glow" in the material settings...if not, white will always be a light gray in its lightest shade.....

[DanielleAnderson]

Hi Danielle,

there is no way to control the shaded views...many factors changing the luminosity of the color...

you could use Jeffrey McGrew's technique...you could search in these forums, or you could look at the AU2005 class notes of DV14-1 "From Model tto Marvelous: stunning Presentations in Autodesk Revit Building" Page 6 (shameless plug for my friend Jeffrey)

He explains how you can use shaded colors to get exact color representaion, instead of shaded view...so you would have a color hidden view drawing with shadows, but no luminosity....

I hope you find all you need...


Take care,

Thanks Luigi, I was actually in Jeffrey's class at AU last year and saw his demo about using hidden line views and the paint tool to get the exact colors desired. That's great if you have a bunch of users who are on the same level and can trouble-shoot later when things need to get "un-painted". Since I really had only a day or two to give these guys a boost, I didn't want to do anything that would completely screw them up later. :)
I just think that perhaps chosen colors could be represented a little bit better without always having to render, which opens completely new cans of worms.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that has had to deal with this issue, so I'm just trying to figure out how other people get around the wonky colors.

Good tip on the white material, by the way - I'll remember that one. 8)

[dbaldacchino]

Danielle,

The closest I could get to something that is acceptable was to go a shaded view, turn shadows on and set the sun at 100% and shadows at 0% (for interior elevation). The colors represented end up very similar to what was picked in the materials. Take a look at the attached. Note that the glass doesn't show transparent. You might need to turn curtain wall panels off in V/G to get a better feel, but you'd loose info. about the tint. The 3D views vary because.....colors really change in reality due to the orientation of the light source, material reflectivity etc. I think Revit could do a much better job at still conveying the spatial qualities of a 3D view without completely destroying the perception of color.

[luigi]

Danielle, actually, you don't have to paint the walls...if you have them organized by material, and you do, since you want the material color to be exact, just make the surface pattern of the material the color you want on a solid fill....show hidden view and you get the perfect colors...no light variation...

So one could paint, but it isn't necessary...so later, for CD type drawings you can just change the surface pattern to a more proper one for CD....

Take care,



Thanks Luigi, I was actually in Jeffrey's class at AU last year and saw his demo about using hidden line views and the paint tool to get the exact colors desired. That's great if you have a bunch of users who are on the same level and can trouble-shoot later when things need to get "un-painted". Since I really had only a day or two to give these guys a boost, I didn't want to do anything that would completely screw them up later. :)
I just think that perhaps chosen colors could be represented a little bit better without always having to render, which opens completely new cans of worms.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that has had to deal with this issue, so I'm just trying to figure out how other people get around the wonky colors.

Good tip on the white material, by the way - I'll remember that one. 8)

[frame]

Here is trick for getting ELEVATIONS to appear such that the RGB value of your materials show with same color in the view:

Turn on shaded with edges
Open the advance model graphics dialog from the shadow flyout (icon controls at bottom of viewframe)
Turn on shadows
Set shadow intensity to 0
Sun intensity to 80

Make a new sun and shadow setting called "true color", or something like that.
Set these values using the "directly" options:
Altitude = 90
Azimuth = 0
Relative to View = Checked

[luigi]

It seems to work flawlessly!!! (not that I wouldn't trust a legend like yourself) ;)

Thank you...that will help a lot!!!!



Here is trick for getting ELEVATIONS to appear such that the RGB value of your materials show with same color in the view:

Turn on shaded with edges
Open the advance model graphics dialog from the shadow flyout (icon controls at bottom of viewframe)
Turn on shadows
Set shadow intensity to 0
Sun intensity to 80

Make a new sun and shadow setting called "true color", or something like that.
Set these values using the "directly" options:
Altitude = 90
Azimuth = 0
Relative to View = Checked

[DanielleAnderson]

Here is trick for getting ELEVATIONS to appear such that the RGB value of your materials show with same color in the view:

Turn on shaded with edges
Open the advance model graphics dialog from the shadow flyout (icon controls at bottom of viewframe)
Turn on shadows
Set shadow intensity to 0
Sun intensity to 80

Make a new sun and shadow setting called "true color", or something like that.
Set these values using the "directly" options:
Altitude = 90
Azimuth = 0
Relative to View = Checked

Awesome - that's the kind of thing I was waiting for. You rock. 8)

[dbaldacchino]

Cool, I was sorta close in my example but failed to specify the azimuth and altitude. Thanks Frame!

[Joef]

These are the kind of legendary solutions we will tell our granchildren about! :)

Thanks!

[Maximillian]

It is another Revit rendering shortcoming (real time). There should be a check for objects or groups of objects to not receive shadows and also no shadows at all and retain the correct color.

sorry to rant but I am in the middle of a rendering(real time export because accurender is a J.O.K.E. and it is bothering me.

and if there is a way to turn materials off to do a hidden line ( without seeing the patters) please let me know.

[kpaxton]

It is another Revit rendering shortcoming (real time). There should be a check for objects or groups of objects to not receive shadows and also no shadows at all and retain the correct color.
sorry to rant but I am in the middle of a rendering(real time export because accurender is a J.O.K.E. and it is bothering me.
and if there is a way to turn materials off to do a hidden line ( without seeing the patters) please let me know.Sorry to hear that Accurender is being a pain. I don't seem to have that much problem with it. ;) As to turning off materials, are you referring to the surface patterns? or the the assigned materials themselves? If this is regarding surface patterns - no, there isn't a way to 'turn them off' other than assigning a 'blank faced' material, then switching back. This is a function of how the visual drawing engine works.

[sbrown]

The same tip for elevations works for plans too if you change the altitude and azmituth to 0 and 0. The elevation setting works on sections. So its a great tip all around.

[Alex Page]

oh...if you still want shaded views...and you want true "white" then make the white material "glow" in the material settings...if not, white will always be a light gray in its lightest shade.....

Has this feature disappeared in 2009 - or am I missing something.
See attached example - how do I make the ceilings 'white' ? Cant seem to find the glow button!!

[mruehr]

Ticking Use Render Appearance for Shading Setting Material to white and Self Illumination to dim glow worked for me

[Alex Page]

Thanks for your help - but I had already down this!!