Countertops & tile patterns

[Knoll]

I model all Kitchen elements in 3D. Counter tops and sinks effectively mask for floor tile pattern. Tile surface patterns on components are problematic.

Revit's counter top components, when set to 3D visibility in plan, can not have their tile surface patterns adjusted (align pattern to wall) when in place. So counter tops get modeled in place (extrusion) and surface patterns are then adjustable. o.k.

Adding the V cap at the edge of a counter is a problem. If it is a sweep added to the edge of the counter top, the surface pattern tile joints won't be right when it turns a corner. Keep in mind that V cap has only vertical joints, no horizontal.

Instead, if V cap is simply a split face on the counter top, a V cap material can be painted to that region. In order to get all of the vertical surface pattern joints to be vertical, each counter top edge must have it's own split region.

See image. top is V cap sweep. Bottom is split region.

There must be a better way !

[Graham Briggs]

I model all Kitchen elements in 3D. Counter tops and sinks effectively mask for floor tile pattern. Tile surface patterns on components are problematic.

Revit's counter top components, when set to 3D visibility in plan, can not have their tile surface patterns adjusted (align pattern to wall) when in place. So counter tops get modeled in place (extrusion) and surface patterns are then adjustable. o.k.

Adding the V cap at the edge of a counter is a problem. If it is a sweep added to the edge of the counter top, the surface pattern tile joints won't be right when it turns a corner. Keep in mind that V cap has only vertical joints, no horizontal.

Instead, if V cap is simply a split face on the counter top, a V cap material can be painted to that region. In order to get all of the vertical surface pattern joints to be vertical, each counter top edge must have it's own split region.

See image. top is V cap sweep. Bottom is split region.

There must be a better way !
Hi Knoll,

First of all, if you want to "move" or align the surface pattern, it has to be a Model pattern. Go to Settings>Fill Patterns. In that dialog box, notice (at the bottom) there are two type of fill pattern (or hatch, if you use ACAD). The Drafting pattern [versions] are not scalable and can not be aligned. However , the Model patterns are and can. When you define a material surface pattern, in most cases you will want to choose (or create) a Model pattern. The material cut pattern may, or may not be a Drafting pattern.

This might seem confusing... but play, play, play! Experiment with different settings and patterns, until you get the concept. After that, all will be well.

Having said all of that...
Your countertop edge sweep patterns will not automatically line up with the top pattern (or splash). Once you are using Model fill patterns in your material definitions, you will be able to Align these patterns (assuming they are similar) by tab-highlight-clicking a "line" on one surface, then tab-highlight-clicking a second "line" on another surface.

Keep trying...
Graham

[Knoll]

Graham,

Thanks for the mini seminar on hatch patterns. I'm familiar with drafting vs. model patterns and all of my surface patterns are model patterns. I'm familiar with using the align tool to adjust a surface pattern. The question is not how to align a surface pattern. The lower image shows the V cap joints properly and they can be adjusted with the align tool.

My comment and question is "there must be a better way" to create a V cap with joints than to create a separate split region for each edge of the counter. Maybe my question is not clear enough. I assume the reader knows what a V cap edge tile is and how the joints should look.

thanks

[Graham Briggs]

Sorry Knoll,

I didn't mean to come off like a lecturer.

I am not familiar with the term V cap, but I assume that you want the joint lines to line up from top to edge, and have a joint-line at a given distance from the front edge.

Whether you are using separate edge sweeps or just "splitting the face(s)" and painting, I don't know of an easier way to align the joints. I wish Revit would just "know" what the intent is, but...
Maybe the Factory could devise a way to "know" the pattern lines are intended as joints, or "assign"some sort of parametric value, and therefore cause Revit to adjust them to the real world. I'm sure that is not high on the priority list. So we all just have to do the work, if we want the look.

Keep at it,
Graham

[Knoll]

Graham,

No apology needed, lecture away.

Attached is a photo of a tile V cap being installed. There are no horizontal joints in V cap. When modeling the joints in V cap with a surface pattern I use a model surface pattern that has vertical lines at 6" o.c.

The modeling problem is that when this surface pattern goes around a corner, as with an extrusion of the V cap, the surface pattern basically disappears. It is an orientation problem. This why I resorted to the individual split regions so that the pattern could be adjusted for each face.

The multiple split region approach, IMHO is too slow of a process to actually use in practice.

thanks again for your response

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Have you looked into doing the v-cap as a two pick family? With a little experimention you might be able to nest it into the countertop family.

[ford347]

Just so you guys are aware, I believe not being able to adjust the counter-top pattern is a bug. I have just gone through this one and yes, the pattern being used is a model pattern, most definitly. I have applied the pattern to a parameter in the counter top family and when you go to align the pattern or move the pattern to something, the whole counter top moves. So I just have to end up using fill patterns if it doesn't look right. Sucks.

Josh

[dhurtubise]

Would you mind posting the family so we can have a look at it ?

[Knoll]

Have you looked into doing the v-cap as a two pick family?

Not sure what you mean by a "two pick family". Can you clarify a bit?

thanks

[Dimitri Harvalias]

R9 introduced two new family templates. Generic Model Line Based and Detail Component Line Based. They are referred to as a "two pick" families because you define the length of the family by selecting a start and finish point. They can be Model objects or detail objects depending on which template you use.
I've attached a really quick and dirty example of how you'd set one up. They are basically a template that allows you to create a nested array component easily. Not sure if this is worth the hassle and overhead in a model but if you need it for 3D views and the patterns aren't working it's an option.
Good luck.

[Knoll]

Thanks Dimitri,

That is a better solution than my split region, but clean up at the inside corners requires a little tweaking plus some work with the line work tool. Still better.

You're really on to something with your comments about 3D overhead. In an empty new project, with just one Vcap component, a stretch edit takes 5 seconds to complete. Arrays are a useful tool within a Family, but they do seem to bog things down.

What would be more useful would be to get the sweep tool to handle the joints properly. Something like a Repeat Detail that could follow a path like a sweep. Inside corner, outside corner and even arcs could be accomplished quickly.

Thanks for your comment.

[ford347]

I'm assuming you meant for me to post the family in which I was having problems with, if not, ignore. But here it is.