Scope boxes

[ford347]

For whatever reason, I have always had a hard tiime grasping the concept and purpose for scope boxes. I got a template or two off of Cadkillers sharing ftp site and noticed that a few people actually had a scope box set up per view in their template. I have read the help file and read misc. posts on them here, but still, don't really get it. So i don't use them. Is there a resource I could go to to learn more about them in detail with clear and descriptive information so I can 'get it'. I have heard many of you talk about them and their usefullness, I would like to join the crowd if they really help. I am about to tackle a temlate, as I've never really created one.....I just use the last project and I am continually kicking myself for it. This is one of the items on my punch list to maybe add to a template.

Thanks
Josh

[dhurtubise]

There as been a tremandeous amount of thread about that, you could run a search for it. They are mostly use to control the extent of datum planes.

[jcoe]

Steve Stafford has a good tutorial on how to use scope boxes.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=11935&highlight=Scope+Boxes

[Joef]

Just so you don't feel as everbody gets it but you Josh, I have tried to use scope boxes a couple times and have never actually made perfect sense of them. You think they work one way and then when you go to use them they seem to work differently. There are 2d and 3d factors, plus section planes and heights of the scope boxes not to mention crop regions, etc. It all seems simple until you actually use them.

[Steve_Stafford]

No Joe, it is just you and Josh struggling with this... :smile: Sorry...

When Revit added the 3D/2D behavior to levels and grids it altered the Scope Box relationship a bit. Now, they (scope boxes) are best for managing crop regions of partial plans and secondarily for managing the visibility of datum.

[ford347]

WOW!! Don't hold back Steve! :lol:

I appreciate that Joef.....at least someone feels kind of bad for me!

I will check out that tutorial by Steve and see if I can't get used to them. I understand what Steve just said, I just need to go put it to use a few times to get the hang of it. Thanks a lot guys.

Josh

[ford347]

Back on scope boxes a little.............by using scope boxes, will that provide me with the control over what section annotations are showing up in a particular view. For instance, I cut a bunch of wall sections in my front elevation, and when I go to my back elevation, they're all there, forcing me to hide all annotations in the rear view, which is getting very congested. I see this happening everywhere and if I could use scope boxes to control this, I would love it.

Josh

[twiceroadsfool]

Back on scope boxes a little.............by using scope boxes, will that provide me with the control over what section annotations are showing up in a particular view. For instance, I cut a bunch of wall sections in my front elevation, and when I go to my back elevation, they're all there, forcing me to hide all annotations in the rear view, which is getting very congested. I see this happening everywhere and if I could use scope boxes to control this, I would love it.

Josh

Were using Scope boxes for Grids in an instance very much like this. Section Markers and Elevation Markers have scope box fields too, and were considering using them for such an occasions.

Particularly of interest to me, is being able to put all of my demolition Elevations and sections in one scope box so that i can set them to not be visible during the new construction Drawings, post demo.

I have an existing mall, with two phases, both with demo and renovation/new construction. The scope boxes have been huge in controlling the visibility of grids. For instance, the crop regions of the plans need to encompass the entire mall for both phases, to show the scope of work, etc... But i dont want the minor structural grids that we put in for Phase 2 showing up in all my my phase 1 drawings suddenly... And they do, because technically, theyre in the same area, so the datum extents cross over.

Now, i have "Mall Major Grids" Scope box, "Phase 1 minor" and "phase 2 minor", and the phase 1 drawings have the overide invisible on, for the phase 2 minors. The only place i have to be careful is if there is a minor thats i the same in both phases, and where that is the case, they stay visible anyway, which works out well.

The only troubling thing to learn for me, is that you dont control their visibility in the VIEWS VG, but rather... you select the views in the properties of the Scope Box. Its kind of backwards to all otehr things revit (in turns of visibility), but i think they work really well.

[ford347]

Were using Scope boxes for Grids in an instance very much like this. Section Markers and Elevation Markers have scope box fields too, and were considering using them for such an occasions.

Particularly of interest to me, is being able to put all of my demolition Elevations and sections in one scope box so that i can set them to not be visible during the new construction Drawings, post demo.

I have an existing mall, with two phases, both with demo and renovation/new construction. The scope boxes have been huge in controlling the visibility of grids. For instance, the crop regions of the plans need to encompass the entire mall for both phases, to show the scope of work, etc... But i dont want the minor structural grids that we put in for Phase 2 showing up in all my my phase 1 drawings suddenly... And they do, because technically, theyre in the same area, so the datum extents cross over.

Now, i have "Mall Major Grids" Scope box, "Phase 1 minor" and "phase 2 minor", and the phase 1 drawings have the overide invisible on, for the phase 2 minors. The only place i have to be careful is if there is a minor thats i the same in both phases, and where that is the case, they stay visible anyway, which works out well.

The only troubling thing to learn for me, is that you dont control their visibility in the VIEWS VG, but rather... you select the views in the properties of the Scope Box. Its kind of backwards to all otehr things revit (in turns of visibility), but i think they work really well.
Thanks for the reply. Sounds like they have many benefits and should start to get used to them. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how, where and in what shape I should set these scope boxes up to control which annotations or sections I see in my other views. I am hiding about 18 section annotations right now in the views I don't want to see them in. I cut all my wall sections in elevation and I don't want to see the ones from one elevation in the opposing elevation. After placing them, every plan view is showing them etc. They are coordination views, so are a lot of my floor plans so I can't filter them that way. I tried drawing a scope box around the front section of the house, naming it front scope, assigning that scope box to the sections within that view and I still see them in the back elevation, even though the scope box is set to be invisible in the back elevation, so I don't think I'm seeing the whole picture here. Maybe you could elaborate as to the technique you use to place them and what you are looking for when using a scope box with the intention of hiding annotations. Thanks a lot!

Josh

[twiceroadsfool]

Hmm. Interesting. I was very disappointed to read your thread and finally try it with section markers. It doesnt work at all the way i thought it would.

We use them for grids now, and they work perfectly, for exactly what you described. So we were contemplating using the for sections and elevations, but evidently they behave differently. Not to mention, i attached a section to a scope box, and suddenly i was unable to change the extents of the section, because it was tied to the scope box.

Thats too bad, i was looking forward to not having to hide all my demo sections and elevations in my new construction floor plans.

Sorry to lead you down the wrong road. :(

I do think theyre amazing at grid visibility control though....

[Steve_Stafford]

Scope boxes control datum and view's crop regions and the visibility of the datum in views. They don't control or act on annotation.

[jcoe]

Thats too bad, i was looking forward to not having to hide all my demo sections and elevations in my new construction floor plans.
Are the demo sections and elevations part of your documet set? If they are not and have no sheet association, you could just check the "Hide Unreferenced View Tags" in the print dialog when printing.

Another option is to use design options for you section and elevation markers as discribed in this thread http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=45195. I played with this a little with elevations. I am not sure if it works with sections.

[twiceroadsfool]

Are the demo sections and elevations part of your documet set? If they are not and have no sheet association, you could just check the "Hide Unreferenced View Tags" in the print dialog when printing.

Another option is to use design options for you section and elevation markers as discribed in this thread http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=45195. I played with this a little with elevations. I am not sure if it works with sections.

Yes, they are definetely part of the CD set, but thatnks for the tip. We use the hide unreferenced to take care of all of the "working views" that are created and not placed.

But, a Demolition section (for us) only shows on the demolition plan, and the same area of the building will have a new work floor plan, and a new wall section. Having to hide the section markers for the demo seemed like it could be controlled in this fashion, but alas, it was not to be. :)