Wall Closure and End Caps

[Davied2]

Hi There

First time post to this site, I have been using Revit for about 6 months now as work have forced me to move on from ADT 3.3.

My question is this: If I have a 300mm thick cavity wall 100mm Brick, 100mm Cavity & 100mm Block and I insert a window in plan view how do I get the interior block work to return to show a closed cavity either side of the window.

I am struggling with this one, any help would be appreciated.

Dave

[christopher.zoog51272]

In the wall properties, take a look at the "wrapping at inserts" parameter, it can be set to interior, exterior, or both. This controls how materials wrap at inserts, such as windows and doors. You can also control the wrapping of individual layers in the wall structure dialogue.

hth,
Z.

[Wes Macaulay]

Hey Dave -- Like Chris said, you control the wrapping of finishes in the wall style by going to the Properties of a wall style > Edit/New > Edit Structure. The checkboxes in the wall assembly tell Revit which materials "turn the corner" at window and door openings to return to the window / door.

In the window and door families you can place a special Reference Plane parallel to the wall that is called a closure. The materials that you've checked so that they will wrap will in fact do so back to this reference plane. So you can place one of these reference planes on each side of the door / window. Open up a door family, right click on a reference plane (green dashed line) and you'll see a check box for "Wall Closure".

It's no fun having to learn new software, so you've definitely come to the right place. There are many ex-ADT users here who can tell you the equivalents for ADT commands and features in Revit. Unfortunately, Revit has no equivalent for AcDbZombie objects. But I think you'll get by nonetheless.

[PeterJ]

The wall type you describe is similar to typical English construction, which might be where you are. Look at the standard English windows and you will se cavity closers etc ready in them. Getting the plaster to wrap around the block work can be achieved but you will need to look carefully at the parameters suggested above.

[davidwlight]

The wrapping works fine until you want to do the following:-
(see jpeg attached & revit file example). I've been fighting with this one of some months! It seems that if you create a wall say 103mm brick,85mm cavity with 50mm insulation included,100mm block, everything is fine. Doors & windows with closer included, allow the wall to wrap. However, if you then run a partition into the wall, due to the core boundary locations, it passes through the blockwork, through the insulation & cavity & meets the external skin. If you don't use blockwork as a cavity closure & use a thermabat closer included within the window or door family, everything works. I'm not an ADT person, but from what I can see, ADT does this without any problems. You can get around the problem by telling the partition not to clean up with the cavity wall or by including a very thin piece of blockwork, 4mm set to coreboundary so the partition cleans up with this. I would be interested to hear back from anybody in the UK who may of come across this issue.

[Paul P.]

David, adjust the position of the core boundary in the basic wall and you will see that the partion does not run into the external skin.

[PeterJ]

Aside from the above comments, all of which are valid, I attach an empty window opening that has a proprietary cavity closer (looks enough like thermabate for my needs) and handles the plaster reveal.

You will need to play with the parameters to fully understand it but it will give you a means of making a window accurate enough for 1:10 jamb details and so on.

Now all you need do is model the rest of the window.

Hope it's helpful.

[davidwlight]

Paul, Thanks for the reply. I've tried to move the core boundary back as you suggested & if you move it past structure 1 ( the masonry blockwork) the wall cleans up ok, but the block cavity closer no longer wraps at inserts. Am I missing something else?

[davidwlight]

Pete, Top stuff! Thanks for that, the thermabate closer worked first time & the plasterboard wraps very nicely.

[Paul P.]

Dave, I'm not sure why that is (if anynoe has a good explanation for this I'd be interested to know), I just know that adjusting the position of the core boundary affects where the partion finishes.

But it sound's like you have sorted it out with the family Pete posted.

Regard's, Paul.

[Davied2]

Wow Guys,

Thanks for all your replies, lot of info there for me to wade through, the ref planes was one I had'nt figured out before and the Thermabate closers are really handy.

Thanks for all your help.

Greeting from Sunny Wales (Uk)

Dave - The Welshman

[Michelle Gibson]

Following various posts on the wrap issue. We have a stacked wall with block on wood stud frame on bottom, stucco on wood frame on top. We are using the stucco as the main cut level so that the window frame wraps the stucco face. What happens is that the face of the frame laps over the face of the stucco. What I want to be able to do is keep the frame and stucco as it is, but have the block below stop short of the edge of the window frame - say 10mm or so. This is a standard detail in our area - I might even have to make the block return on the exterior.

No luck so far, though we haven't manipulated the window/door enclosure settings in the family type.

any help is appreciated.

[J. Grouchy]

hehe...I see you dredging up a lot of old threads to find your answer. Let me know if you find something...

[mtogni]

However, if you then run a partition into the wall, due to the core boundary locations, it passes through the blockwork, through the insulation & cavity & meets the external skin. If you don't use blockwork as a cavity closure & use a thermabat closer included within the window or door family, everything works.

Unfortunately, as far I can see, there is no solution for this problem. I tried everything to get a workaround but with no success. Wall closure is useful for windows&doors wraps but you have to take also the bad joins of the walls as you explained.
Hope people at the factory will fix it in the future.

[cledbetter]

I would like the gyp board finish to wrap the free end of a wall but I don't seem to be able to check the "wraps" box in the edit assembly window (under structure editing of a wall type). The materials of the wall are a metal stud with gyp board. The wall was created from a "basic wall". Do I need to get a different family??