Fake Dormer to Roof Attachment?

[tc3dcad60731]

The only stupid question is the one that is not asked so here goes.

I have created a temp plane on the plywood sheathing of the roof and attached the wall bases to this plane. It all attaches properly but in section it will show the roof material layer as still visible inside of the dormer. We all know that the contractor is not going to shingle the entire roof and then attach the dormer over the shingles.

Have the rest of you been drawing filled regions over this to conceal it or what?

[blads]

Sorry Thomas, I can't be of much assistance as I don't have a lot of demand for dormer roofs downunder...

the only one I've done I followed the Revit help guide but may I suggest creating an opening in your roof if you dont wish to see the shingles...

HTH

[tc3dcad60731]

Thanks Blads! The dormer will have a window placed in it but no actual light penetration into the house. It is only for asthetics and the dormer will literally sit on the roof. Normally, the roof will have a cutout and the dormer wall will come up either from the the main wall below or the floor framing for support and it would be a moot issue.

I was just curious as to how people were showing it or if they just did not worry about it! :roll:

Have a g'day downunder, mate!

[michael.deorsey]

I haven't yet had a need to create a dormer, but from you explanation of the actual construction, I think that I would have built the model in the same way you did, and then use a filled region to make the detail look correct.

HTH,
Mike

[Scott D Davis]

I might do the roof as two parts. Draw the "structural" roof first, then copy it and set its properties to just "shingles" and move it up to sit on the surface of the strucutral roof. You can then cut out the "shingles" under the dormer.

[tc3dcad60731]

I might do the roof as two parts. Draw the "structural" roof first, then copy it and set its properties to just "shingles" and move it up to sit on the surface of the strucutral roof. You can then cut out the "shingles" under the dormer.

I did not think about this way! Very interesting.

[steve.70285]

I'm working on a project now with a dormer and have worked on several in the past. Quite often I do not cut a section through a non acting dormer but here's what I usually have in my model.

When I create a dormer I always attach the base of the walls to the roof itself, I also cut a roof opening inside the dormer so I don't have to look at shingles inside the dormer when I take a 3D view of the area.

As you can see the core blends together as do the finishes, just as it would with joined walls. I checked to see if the result would be altered if I attached the wall base to a reference plane but no change.

In your roof do you have the shingles outside the core boundary of your roof structure? This will definitely make a difference as would your wall structure.

[testingwaters]

Sorry for hijacking this thread (sort of)!!!

But while on the dormer issue, does anyone think it's possible to create a dormer family such that it adapts to the roof slope and also cuts the appropriate opening.

I posted a similar query on the Revit-Families forum titled 'Always Vertical' and reposting the query here assuming not everybody visits that forum.

Thanks

[tc3dcad60731]

In your roof do you have the shingles outside the core boundary of your roof structure? This will definitely make a difference as would your wall structure.

The shingles are outside of the core boundary. As for the dormer itself, I have done numerous ones before mostly with walls coming up through from the floor framing of the second floor. Then for the side walls I edit the profile so that it too comes up from the floor framing but then tapers out over the roof since most of them have been joining a vaulted ceiling. On this particular one the contractor is just adding them to the roof for appeal so they serve no purpose. I will not actually be showing a section through the dormer on the final but I know the engineer will show a connection detail and framing attachment. Curiosity got the better of me and I created the section to see how it displayed the connection. Also wanted to know how others show them. I have done the section before on a dormer to show window bench seats and other key elements like crawl space distances for ac, etc.

I really appreciate all of the feedback!

[tc3dcad60731]

Sorry for hijacking this thread (sort of)!!!

But while on the dormer issue, does anyone think it's possible to create a dormer family such that it adapts to the roof slope and also cuts the appropriate opening.

I posted a similar query on the Revit-Families forum titled 'Always Vertical' and reposting the query here assuming not everybody visits that forum.

Thanks

Vikram - if no one has responded to your post on this subject before, I apologize. There is always alot going on everwhere! Anyway to your question.

It could probably be done since I have done some similar type work but that was a totally different ADSK package. With Revit you have too many variables to contend with such as.....

Width, depth, ht, level placed, orientation, wall material, roof material of dormer, roof material of main roof, alignment, and possibly a few others that do not come to mind at 2am. If you have the time to work it out then great. You will definitely need time, work planes, parameters, and a few diferential equations to go with it!

[steve.70285]

Thomas,

Sorry I couldn't be more help but after playing with the core structure and finishes I could not create shingles that went under the wall framing; so how your model is different then mine I'm not sure.

To answer you original question I'd use "edit cut profile" first and than resort to fill regions as needed.

[steve.70285]

Vikram,

I agree with Thomas, if you had a project with an extreme amount of dormers and because of the design phase you needed to keep them all parametric it would be worth the time and effort to create a family. But due to all the parameters and multiple categories used such as walls, roofs, windows and trim I know that I'll keep on creating them one at a time, grouping and placing by copy/paste.

[testingwaters]

Thanks Thomas!!
Now that you say it's possible, I should spend some time trying to create one.

But it would be great if you could give me a little more direction, if possible or if anybody could provide me with a dormer family they might have created to study it would be even better.

1. Would you make use of the 'Always Vertical Parameter' or would you rather specify the slope of the host roof for each case?
2. Would you use a Roof Based Generic Model family or something else?
3. Would you try to create the roof opening as part of the family or would you rather create the openings as a seperate exercise?

Thank You.

[testingwaters]

Steve,

I need to create these dormer families as part of a library.
That means, I'll have to do it. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it.

Thank You

[steve.70285]

Vikram,

Had a few minutes so I threw together a very quick dormer. Check it out to see if it helps.

Steve

[testingwaters]

Thank You Steve!!
This would be helpful!
Do you think I could try to figure out a way to also create an opening in the roof as part of the family? I suppose we'd have to try a slightly different approach to acheive that..............maybe, create a family such that the vent face of the dormer is inclined when placed on the roof and the correct pitch (slope) would need to specified in order to straighten it..............Just thinking aloud.
Thanks again!!

[steve.70285]

Vikram,

I updated the file with an opening...once again just a quick revision but gives an idea of what could be done.

I'm glad it helps.

[tc3dcad60731]

Steve - no worry, I will display some images of what I was referring to when I get a chance. Got a lot going on the rest of this week.

Vikram - I will have to get back to you on some more help and tips later. I have a lot going on the rest of the week. However, I will tell you to use a parameter so that you can enter the slope of the roof and the dormer will update according to that users entry. Also, always remember that workplanes are great but some things can be achieved easier and better with the proper formula driven dimension!

[testingwaters]

Thanks again, Steve and Thomas for you advise and direction!!