Plotting - save paper and your brain

[Wes Macaulay]

Since people tend to go insane during plotting, I offer this post as an alternative to living in a catatonic state. This information is also germane to you poor sots who still use AutoCAD.

Here's a common scenario: your titleblocks are 24x36 and your HP plotter has a 36" roll. How do you maximise the plotting area without getting truncated titleblocks or rotated plots (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=4643)?

Answer: get to know your plotter. Find out what its margins are. On a typical HP plotter, you have 5mm (0.2") margins on each side of the roll, and 17mm (0.67") at the leading and trailing edge of the roll as it comes out of the plotter.

Using a 24x36" Titleblock on a 36" Roll as an Example
So you have a 24x36 titleblock that you want to print so that exactly 24" of paper spools out of the plotter and you don't have to cut the paper... here's how you do it.

Your maximum plottable width across the roll is 36" minus a 0.2" margin on each edge = 35.6"
Your maximum plottable height is 24" minus the two 0.67" margins = 22.66"

If you have a border you want to print at the edge of your sheet, it can be no larger than 35.6" x 22.66"

Create the margins in the titleblock. When creating your titleblock family, use invisible lines to show the full size of the sheet. Offset from those lines to create the margins. Finish your titleblock, making sure NOTHING will ever come into this margin space. Your titleblock is now as efficient as possible.

Set up the printer driver. Your plotter control panel should be configured for roll feed, 36" roll, and the paper size set to 24" x 36" (sometimes called Arch D) with a landscape orientation. Do NOT use 24" x 36" Oversize... this means that the printer driver will call for full 24" x 36" printing area, and your plots will rotate, and you'll be wasting trees. When you specify 24 x 36" non-oversize, the driver is subtracting for the margins, leaving you with a maximum plottable area of 35.6" x 22.66".

If your HP plotter only handles 24" rolls, then your maximum plottable area is 24 less 0.2" per roll edge by 36 less 0.67" per trailing and leading edges = 23.6" x 34.66"

Those of you working across the Atlantic or Pacific puddles may have A0 or A1 width rolls -- work out your max plottable areas accordingly. If you're sheet feeding rather than roll feeding the same margins generally apply.

In AutoCAD, use the same logic... the data that goes to the plotter cannot be larger than 35.6 x 22.66" or the plot will rotate. Make sure your plot window is no larger than your max plottable area and you're good to go. I dunno how many lives I've saved figuring this one out. Hope it saves yours!

[aggockel50321]

Well done Wes,

A great explanation to use rather than trying to decipher those HP manuals.

I always wondered why the driver listed "oversize" paper sizes. Thought maybe they we're mimicing McDonald's marketing strategy...

[sbrown]

Our HP 1055cm with 36" roll does as you say at the left and right by looses data at the top and bot. any ideas? I notice the printer may be using the 755 drivers. Thats the first thing I'll change.

[Wes Macaulay]

Hey Scott.

I would give your titleblock a 3/4" margin top and bottom -- it chops 1.5" off the height of the page, but you can be sure you won't lose lines. So on a 36 x 48" sheet, you set the outermost border on the titleblocks...

at least 0.67" inboard from the full 48" width on each side for the long side
at least 0.2" inboard on each edge from the edge of the roll
So the titleblock will be plotting out sideways from the plotter. Your maximum plottable area is 46.66" x 23.6" -- the border of the titleblock can't be larger than this, and it should be centred within the full 36 x 48" sheet which you can represent with invisible lines in the titleblock family. I round the margins up to 0.75" and 0.25" for the sheet edge and roll edges of the plotter, respectively, to ensure borders don't get clipped.

I don't think the driver would make a difference to your margins -- almost all the HP plotters are the same in this respect -- but it can't hurt to try.

The out-of-the-box Windows printer drivers for the HP plotters don't understand the HP margins -- make sure you download and use the RTL drivers for HP-GL2 from HP's website. These plotter drivers are also used by AutoCAD. Check to see you're using the latest HP drivers.

Let us know if that solves the problem!

[msmith.tsap]

You guys seem to have plotting well under control.On the other hand I am totally befuddled. Plotting to HP 600 and getting nothing but solid black. Autodesk says REvit used Windows drivers not Autocad but I can only get hp/gl-2 drivers from HP. What gives? Have seen no real info on plotting/printing from Revit. Is PDF way to go?

[Scott D Davis]

You are installing your printer just as you would any other windows printer? Use "Add Printer" in Control panel? Once installed as a windows printer, it will be available to print to from Revit.

[msmith.tsap]

We have installed and reinstalled the printer several times and tried all type of modifications. Never has been a problem in Autocad. Great workhorse printer. In Revit, all we get is a swath of black ink across the sheet. I am beginning to think because it is an older printer that the capability is not there and that hp/g;2 driver is the problem running out of XP. I am thinking to go back and pick up older drivers from Win98 and see if that makes a difference. Appreciate any help you could lend.

[Nic M.]

Can you print from any other windows application (word, notepad,...)
Autocad uses its own ADI drivers to talk to the printer so its no reference on whether the printer works in windows or not.
If you install the windows drivers for this printer, you have the option to print out a test page, did this page get printed?

[msmith.tsap]

It did print the test page but came out strange. The print was almost reverse with each letter of the type was a black box with a white letter in lieu of a standard black letter.

[J. Grouchy]

I'd like to know how to get Revit to 'remember' the last printer used in a project (between sessions) instead of always reverting back to the Windows default printer. (I don't set my default to the plotter because I don't want to print timesheets and transmittals on 30x42 sheets!) Is there a setting or is that just unavoidable?

[Joef]

I'm using an HP designjet 600 with no problems. Their web site (and Microsofts) claim that there are printer drivers on the windows xp CD. I downloaded mine some time ago from HP, but can't seem to do so now. They only want to mail me a CD.

Joe

[msmith.tsap]

Anything special you do for setup? Black or Color lines? Are you printing to a network or directly to 600? Is this same plotter and setup for Autocad?

[Wes Macaulay]

Revit should work with both the HP downloadable drivers and the Windows driver. The HP driver will "know" the plotter's margins better, so keep that in mind.

With HP you have to register (it's free and does not incur spam) to get access to the drivers for downloading.

[msmith.tsap]

We have downloaded the specific drivers from HP but no luck still.

[Joef]

Anything special you do for setup? Black or Color lines? Are you printing to a network or directly to 600? Is this same plotter and setup for Autocad?


I'm not doing anything special. I am printing directly to the printer (LPT1). I usually print in grayscale, but that is really fine tuning. I am using the HP DesignJet Printer Driver V4.65.

[SkiSouth]

I'm not doing anything special. I am printing directly to the printer (LPT1). I usually print in grayscale, but that is really fine tuning. I am using the HP DesignJet Printer Driver V4.65.

this is an old DOS trick to test things. Not sure if it will work with XP. Plot a sample drawing to a file. Shell out to command prompt. Copy the file to the port directly such as:
copy testplot.plt >PRN /b - The "slash b" is essential as it tells the operating system to send the file in binary format (the plotter will understand). Should plot as if sent by the operating system directly. Again - I qualify this by saying that comes from the DOS years...

[Wes Macaulay]

DOS tricks still work in XP.

Some people who use outside repro shops often like to create plot files by default, or sometimes for some reason they can't print directly to the plotter, but plot files copied to the plotter work using a command prompt as mentioned above. This was often the case when sending a whack of files to a plotter and the job would bomb about 10 plots in for some reason.

A trick I used in such cases was to associate .prn and .plt files with a shortcut (.pif) to a DOS batch (.bat) file. It's a text file resaved with a .bat extension. You'd map the plotter to LPT1 and then your batch file would look like this:

COPY %1 LPT1

The shortcut would be configured to close after execution, so once the file was copied to the port, the window would close. I could plot 200 files off no problem using this, and then after the checkplot I could send the same files off to a repro shop for large scale reproduction.

[msmith.tsap]

Something is still screwing up my plotfiles though. I plotted to a file and moved it to a different machine and ran plotfile. Still comes out solid black. DOS is not the answer right now. Something is still wrong with plotfiles.

[SkiSouth]

Just curious. Do you draw on screen with a white background or black?

[msmith.tsap]

LOL. I thought about that last night as I was going through the entire program to see what could me my problem - an errant tick box or other handle checked on or off. I have been drawing with white background but swiched to black to test. No good - same problem. Solid black printing.

[LRaiz]

Do other applications (besides ACAD) print OK? For example try printing html page you are looking at.

[msmith.tsap]

Okay we may be getting closer. Not in solving the plotting issue but why it is not plotting.I tried plotting an html and as it was going through (more black globs) it hit me that this is a nearly (pre) HP600 but one of its shortcomings is that it does not print raster files. I assumed Revit was vector in lieu of raster. Is Revit raster? That could explain the whole problem. I have been plotting in Autocad, no problem, that is vector but I knew raster inserts could not be done. So, I have a 350C which does raster (sheet feed, real pain) so I will try that. I'll be back.

[LRaiz]

Revit will use combination of raster and vector printing techniques as necessary. If your model contains nothing but lines then Revit will use just vector printing. However in other situations it will employ raster techniques.

[Robert.Williams82344]

First off, nice post Wes.

So what does one do that wants to see a dashed cutline exactly at 24" x 36"? Sorry, us damned Californinans have rules to abide by.

Thanks

RW

[Wes Macaulay]

Welll... you can certainly have one line at the edge using a style other than <Invisible Lines> but I don't know what that would do... either the plotter would cut it off (truncate the plot) or you'd have to make a custom page size to suit.

Can you describe your situation a bit more?

[k.armstrong]

First off, nice post Wes.

So what does one do that wants to see a dashed cutline exactly at 24" x 36"? Sorry, us damned Californinans have rules to abide by.

Thanks

RW
Use bigger paper? wouldn't the dashed cut line be "cut off" if the paper is exactly 24x36 and thats where the line is?

Wes thanks for starting this tip - my experience in setting up plotters has been stressful at times in the past (with acad!)

I once had a guy spend 2 entire days fiddling with margins etc to get sheet borders set correctly.

- then we changed brands and had to go through it all again.

1 quick comment - don't know how many of you get to see the plans as they are used on site - but margins of 25mm all sides don't go astray to allow for the rips and tears that plans are subjected to when being used on a building site.

And don't forget about when you have them clipped into a hanging file!

Ken