Sustainability in Revit

[s.messing]

Hello all,

The time has come. I have convinced my firm to start using Revit and its wonderful bidirectional database and general wealth of information for the greater good. Yes, it's true. I am finally at a place where I can devote some minor resources to using Revit as a green design tool with sustainability as a viable goal from the beginning of the project (instead of the middle or the end). AND I have the support of my firm, which makes this all the more realistic! Now, of course, I just have to make it happen...

I know about exporting to GBXML and sending the info along to GeoPraxis (GBS). I have also begun looking into IES, which seems like a well minded company. I hear that Revit was all over Greenbuild this past week, and that some partnerships have begun forming between Autodesk and IES (for example). But I would like to examine all of the in house capabilities before I start relying on external sources, so...

Is anyone using Revit to do anything internally nifty with sustainability? I have fiddled with the room and area export calcs, though I am not yet sure how to make them useful within Revit without going out to an excel spreadsheet. I am moving toward being able to use schedules to facilitate calculations for some of the more basic LEED credits, but scheduling formulas and parameters takes it just beyond my comfort level and I sometimes miss a step and end up with a pile of confused numbers. I am one step away from combining my two passions: Revit and Sustainability. I'd love to hear whether others are starting down this path, somewhere nearby, or way off the charts on this subject.

I really feel strongly that we should be using all of this data to make better buildings, not just make buildings better.
Thanks,
Stephen

[Brian Myers]

is data to make better buildings, not just make buildings better.[/b]
Thanks,
Stephen

Hi Stephen,

A place you might want to look at is Autodesk's website itself:

http://www.autodesk.com/mini-sites/green/ressources/index.html

Yes, this doesn't answer your question directly, but could provide a source of information and some further direction in your search for information.

[Andre Baros]

At this point, Revit building is a pretty clumsy player when it comes to sustainability. You have some options, but nothing smooth. One reason is that most of the analysis packages can't handle the complexity of a Revit model and Revit can only export a stripped down file to GBXML, which limits you quite a bit. If we could get that same data out in a more universal format, we could do a lot more with it. Revit systems can export a simple model for energy analysis and our usual LEEP MEP consultants take advantage of this... though it seams odd that we have to use a consultant just to export a model for something as simple as that.

We've had success exporting Revit models to Lumen Designer for Daylight analysis... and it will even produce a Leed report for you (sort of). We've also been experimenting with Ecotect from Square One but to really leverage it's power, it needs to be used BEFORE Revit.

Inside Revit, something really simple which we've done is build an adjustable louver family... you drop it in and then can visually play with the ratio of light and shadow to visibility, etc.

I hope one day that Revit picks up more of these capabilities in Building.

[joshua]

The more people that express interest in this the faster we will get the straight benefit. Ecotect rules. It can import ArchiCAD files directly, and with enough user interest they can probable develop the same for Revit. Go to the Square 1 forum and let them know you want it. On the other end, just saying you want sustainable functions in Revit is kind of vague. What functionality are you looking for? I use Revit export to gbXML with GBS and use the data it gives me to create an Energy+ model for more in depth analysis. I have also used greenbuilder, which creates a model to get decent early analysis, but you have to do it from scratch. I do most of my cost/benefit analysis in RETscreen before I even put pencil to paper (so to speak) in Revit. What kind of functionality are you looking for and maybe we can give a better direct answer?
j

[Andre Baros]

The analysis which I think would be good to do right in Revit is daylighitng... with lumen values on a plane or surface, pseudocolor analysis, and plain old shadows too. It would also be nice to be able to assign thermal values for materials or assemblies and to track or work with those inside Revit as well as include those in export files.

Joshua, when you're working with GBS, how much extra work is it once you're in GBS and how intuitive is the interface to do that?

[ron.sanpedro]

I think you will find that currently, the major value of Revit in Green Building is you don't spend so much time managing drawings and schedules and such, so you have more time to do the green things, but you still have to do them mostly manually. I have yet to see someone build a sun shading device in Revit that actually looks at location (on the globe) and orientation and gives you idealized sizing, or anything else that useful. Some basic schedules, but since schedules are just that, you pretty much have to export the schedule to Excel to get anything useful as far as analysis. At AU I am going to be looking into using the API to connect schedules directly to Access tables, so that you can do some real analysis, and update your data as needed.

You may also find this link interesting. http://www.greenerbuildings.com/news_detail.cfm?Page=1&NewsID=34259
Basically Autodesk is partnering with USGBC to create better tools. However, the announcement says they will start by educating architects. Well, some schools have been trying to do that for 30 years and we are still a rather wasteful profession.
I did just get a debrief from the folks who went to the Greenbuild in Colorado, and it seems that LEED is going to incorporate carbon neutrality asap, USBGC is adopting some flavor of Ed Mazria's Architecture 2030 philosophy, and there was some talk that we have 10 years, 3650 days, to make radical change or we are all hosed. Now lets see if Autodesk steps up, or makes lame excuses about shareholder value. Given what happened at GB last week, I think AU this year should be very interesting! ;)

Just my $0.02 anyway.

[joshua]

The analysis which I think would be good to do right in Revit is daylighitng... with lumen values on a plane or surface, pseudocolor analysis, and plain old shadows too. It would also be nice to be able to assign thermal values for materials or assemblies and to track or work with those inside Revit as well as include those in export files.

Joshua, when you're working with GBS, how much extra work is it once you're in GBS and how intuitive is the interface to do that?
In GBS all you do is assign material properties to assemblies, ie assign r value to a wall or triple glaze windows. You can't directly manipulate the model in GBS. It does produce an Energy+ compatable file which you can then do thorough energy analysis with, by manipulating the model HVAC and everything else. In California, you can produce your Title 24 documents with Energy+. GBS is intended as a preliminary tool to quickly compare thermal performance of your building if you manipulate the construction type and thermal values. It functions very well for preliminary design. It doesn't address lighting beyond its thermal component.

The analysis I want to see Revit doing would be to go beyond just energy analysis and move to the broader systems approach to sustainability. I want quick slope analysis of a site, tie in wind rose data, micro-climate as a result of the preceding. I want to see co2 analysis. Lifecycle costing of the building, AS A WHOLE. I want to be able to show my client with options the cost/benefit of components, price of building with or without sunshading and the resulting energy cost changes. I guess what I want is to be able to go beyond the engineering, there is plenty of software out there to do great energy analysis, I want to show the engineerings affect on the architecture and the bottom line, as well a system to help digest all of the information that will inform a good sustainable design.
Top of my list-Site analysis tools.
j

[Teresa.Martin]

If you are going to AU, I believe there is a class or two on green building and Revit. Please check the schedule..or you can wait to download the PDF later!
Best regards,

[psundharam]

I would love to explore the same combination - Revit and Sustainability. Currently I am trying to create a method which will track my wall areas and glazing areas based on wall type and R-values for the International Energy Conservation Code (IECC) compliance. Revit's database structure allows plenty of opportunities.

Eventually, I would like to incorporate LEED items to track for particular credits.

Quick example
Just a theory haven't tried yet
- Roof Heat island credit -
assign reflective surface values to each roof type I have and just do a roof schedule to check for the amount of roof that meets the LEED requirements.

I am trying to accommodate change - if future versions of LEED changes, then we should be able to test our numbers against LEEDs new numbers. SO I thought about creating a roof schedule key with LEED requirements and matching those up with the model roof object's numbers - rather than hard coding the requirements. (This is a very similar concept in software programming world)

Hope I am making some sense here!!

Please post any more ideas anyone has.

thanks
Prem
DLR Group
Phoenix, AZ

[Andre Baros]

I've had similar ideas and am just starting a project which may give me a chance to test these ideas. I haven't gotten very far with it yet, but would use shared parameters just as you are describing.

[rtaube]

Just wanted to bump this back to the top and see if anyone has more recent ideas about how leverage Revit for us in Green Building/Sustainability/LEED/etc..

anyone new tools out there? any interesting methods of utlizing the program?

Cheers,