Autodesk sues ODA

[rkmcswain]

As a follow up to this announcement ODA supports AutoCAD 2007 Drawing Format (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=46728), Autodesk has now filed suit against the ODA... See http://aecnews.com/articles/2098.aspx

[madcadder]

too late to grab a copy



November 21, 2006: On the order of the Chairman of the Open Design Alliance, all Associate Membership Agreements are discontinued until further notice. If you wish further information on this, please contact

[michael.12445]

I have two neighbors who have toddlers in the 2-year old range. When they play, one of them keeps pointing to various toys and calling out, "Mine!" His parents are struggling to get him to understand the concept of sharing.

Maybe if Autodesk tried a little harder to get a gold star in the "Plays well with others" category, they could learn better how to handle their own DWG format and make software that was less buggy and prone to choking on its own data.

Michael Evans
Togawa Smith Martin Residential, Inc.

[Mike.Perry]

I have two neighbors who have toddlers in the 2-year old range. When they play, one of them keeps pointing to various toys and calling out, "Mine!" His parents are struggling to get him to understand the concept of sharing.

Maybe if Autodesk tried a little harder to get a gold star in the "Plays well with others" category, they could learn better how to handle their own DWG format and make software that was less buggy and prone to choking on its own data.Hi Michael

Hmmm, that is an interesting analogy.

Here are a couple of fairly well written ( in my humble opinion ) articles...

Should Autodesk keep the DWG format a secret? (http://www.deelip.com/2006/08/should-autodesk-keep-dwg-format-secret.html)

Did the Open Design Alliance walk into a trap? (http://www.deelip.com/2006/11/did-open-design-alliance-walk-into-trap.html)

:beer: Mike

[rkmcswain]

Hi Michael

Hmmm, that is an interesting analogy.

Here are a couple of fairly well written ( in my humble opinion ) articles...

Should Autodesk keep the DWG format a secret? (http://www.deelip.com/2006/08/should-autodesk-keep-dwg-format-secret.html)

Did the Open Design Alliance walk into a trap? (http://www.deelip.com/2006/11/did-open-design-alliance-walk-into-trap.html)

:beer: Mike

In the first article, the DXF argument is not valid. See http://www.opendesign.com/about/whtpaper/whynot.htm for more info.

Why not share the DWG file format?
It has nothing to do with corruption of the format, and everything to do with being the only vendor in the world able to provide tools to view, edit, read, and write this file format.

Turn the DWG file format loose, and all of a sudden you will have applications available that view, edit, read, and write DWG files equal or better than Autodesk's own applications, at a much cheaper cost. That won't make the shareholders happy...

The second article is pretty much right on target.

All of this is just my opinion of course.... ;)

[michael.12445]

In the first article, the DXF argument is not valid. See http://www.opendesign.com/about/whtpaper/whynot.htm for more info.

Why not share the DWG file format?
It has nothing to do with corruption of the format, and everything to do with being the only vendor in the world able to provide tools to view, edit, read, and write this file format.

Turn the DWG file format loose, and all of a sudden you will have applications available that view, edit, read, and write DWG files equal or better than Autodesk's own applications, at a much cheaper cost. That won't make the shareholders happy...

The second article is pretty much right on target.

All of this is just my opinion of course.... ;)

I read the articles, and I have to agree. For Autodesk to claim they are pursuing this legal action in the name of "protecting" consumers is the most transparent piece of Newspeak I've heard in a long time. Maybe Al Capone-style "protection," not the kind Ralph Nader advocates.

As far as worrying about corrupting the DWG format, IMO Autodesk has done an outstanding job of corrupting it all by themselves, without any help from third parties. For example:

- Vertical applications, many of which are Autodesk's, are allowed to fabricate and insert all sorts of foreign data "objects" by means of the ARX mechanism, yet these are still all considered DWG files. AFAIK, there is nothing to prevent a third party from writing an ARX application whose objects could, in theory, trigger all sorts of virus-like behavior, or worse.

- The format of dimensions is controlled by a staggeringly byzantine agglomeration of DIMVARS, stored in the drawing, that interact with each other in unpredictable ways, and also get transferred, uncontrollably, from drawing to drawing in cut-and-paste operations.

- Also stored in the drawing are xref paths, in such an inflexible and clunky way that it's all but impossible to move drawings from one drive letter to another without breaking links. To not meet such a basic need as being able to move a file seems pretty amateurish.

- Then there are all the data needed to display and print the drawing correctly, that takes up very little space and yet is **NOT** included in the DWG file: linetype definitions, hatch pattern definitions, text fonts, shape files, etc. It's as if they put extra effort into making drawings NON-portable, just to treat us to all kinds of balky "I can't find it" error messages.

Every few releases, Autodesk tweaks the DWG format so that it becomes incompatible with previous versions. But, reading the articles describing the issue of the lawsuit, it appears that they are less concerned with fixing real problems with the format than finding ways to encrypt their little digital swastikas into DWG files to assert their "purity." Can you say, "restraint of trade?"

I think at the very least, users who need to exchange files with others, who might be using something other than Autodesk products, should be informed that there are now legal issues surrounding the file format used by AutoCAD 2007.

Michael Evans
Togawa Smith Martin Residential, Inc.

[jaberwok]

I read the articles, and I have to agree. For Autodesk to claim they are pursuing this legal action in the name of "protecting" consumers is the most transparent piece of Newspeak I've heard in a long time. Maybe Al Capone-style "protection," not the kind Ralph Nader advocates.
Agreed.


As far as worrying about corrupting the DWG format, IMO Autodesk has done an outstanding job of corrupting it all by themselves, without any help from third parties. For example:

- Vertical applications, many of which are Autodesk's, are allowed to fabricate and insert all sorts of foreign data "objects" by means of the ARX mechanism, yet these are still all considered DWG files. AFAIK, there is nothing to prevent a third party from writing an ARX application whose objects could, in theory, trigger all sorts of virus-like behavior, or worse.
The "educational copy" stamp springs to mind.


Every few releases, Autodesk tweaks the DWG format so that it becomes incompatible with previous versions. But, reading the articles describing the issue of the lawsuit, it appears that they are less concerned with fixing real problems with the format than finding ways to encrypt their little digital swastikas into DWG files to assert their "purity." Can you say, "restraint of trade?"
Errr. Restraint of trade ? ;-)

[QUOTE=michael.12445]I think at the very least, users who need to exchange files with others, who might be using something other than Autodesk products, should be informed that there are now legal issues surrounding the file format used by AutoCAD 2007.
Actually, there have always been legal issues connected with the file format(s). Adesk have always maintained that the formats were their proprietary property.

[Patriiick]

Follow the case yourself with the lawsuit tracker, thanks to Owen Wengerd: http://www.adskvoda.com/06-cv-01637-MJP.asp

[arshiel88]

Sorry I haven't had the time to figure out this inquiry.
What is the difference between this ODA software that can open/modify/create AutoCAD drawings with other software such as Squiggle and Deep Exploration which can do the same?

[Ed Jobe]

If you follow Patrick's link, it will lead you to the Open Drawing Alliance. They have produced a set of API's that allow developers to read/write to dwg files without using acad.

[michael.12445]

Sorry I haven't had the time to figure out this inquiry.
What is the difference between this ODA software that can open/modify/create AutoCAD drawings with other software such as Squiggle and Deep Exploration which can do the same?

It appears that the 2007 version of DWG includes some sort of encrypted digital signature identifying the file as having been produced by a "genuine Autodesk" product. The ODA reverse-engineered the entire 2007 DWG format, including this encrypted identification. So (as far as I understand) Autodesk is claiming that software that uses ODA's 2007 DWG read-write libraries infringes Autodesk's trademark by including this identification.

It appears that this was not part of the 2004 DWG format, or at least ODA's version of it - or if it was, Autodesk did not choose to pursue legal action. My guess is that the other programs you cite will work with the 2004 (or earlier) format, but not the 2007 format.

There is more about this at www.slashdot.org (http://www.slashdot.org) - apparently Autodesk's legal action is based on trademark law. You can also read the comments posted there by slashdot readers. Most of them are pretty unfavorable to Autodesk.

Michael Evans
Togawa Smith Martin Residential, Inc.