BEAM SYSTEM SUPPORTS??!!

[ford347]

I have been creating beam systems all morning for my project. Typ. center glb girder, I-Joist purlins and 2x6 sub purlins on a warped roof system. So because it is warped, I am leaving the 3d box checked in my bs properties, which allows me to use the slope of my suppporting members to define my bs boundary. Fine. BUt on the other side of the roof, the only supports I can select for my beam system, which I am creating in the same manner, are the ledgers and the girder, I cannot select my purlins in 3d or plan view!? What happened. This side of the roof is not warped, meaning it starts at a fixed ledger and ends at my girder which is level. could this have something to do with it?? The only other difference is the purlins that I am trying to pick for my supports on this side are also part of a beam system and the other side was not. Can you not pick other structural members for supports when they, themselves are in a beam system? I have just resorted to using lines and picking the center of the purlins and my bs is still 3d and it seems to be working fine. If anybody knows whats going on here, please let me know. I've never ran into it before.

Josh

[modulor]

This issue killed me on a project I was working on. It seems you can not create a Beam System on warped supports. However, I found that if you create the beam system on a flat plan (all supports at same level), and then adjust the supports to meet the warped roof, the Beam System will follow...sometimes. Be careful, it really slowed down my project (200,000 sf roof)

[ford347]

Just so you know, you can create a beam system on a warped surface, at least in my case. You need to open the bs properties before you draw lines, select your material etc., and select 3d. Then when you choose your supports, the boundary will follow the slope of the member that defines the boundary. That side actually worked for me, really fast. But it was the other side, the side one only one slope that it would not let me select my purlins as supports. Wierd. But give the warp a shot the way I described. It worked well.

Josh

[modulor]

I don't see a "3D" option for beam systems. I'm using RB9.0. Am I missing out on something?

[dbaldacchino]

You're missing the new upgrade to 9.1 :) It's a new feature....beam systems were further improved.

[ford347]

Hey, didn't know it was new feature?! Sorry.

Brings me to another questions though. I know you were messing around with beam systems yourself baldaccino some time ago. Seems like I saw a help video somewhere one time and the help file in Revit also says that when creating a beam system, you can create a single line outside the boundary and use it as your beam direction. I have drawn every type of line I can think of, inside and out of the sketch module. I have no idea how this is suppose to work. I always get a closed loop or intersection warning. I have had the need for this quite a few times and simply cannot get it to work. do you know how to do this?

Josh

[dbaldacchino]

I'm not understanding your question...what exactly are you trying to do? The beam system sketch has to be a closed boundary. I know you can put openings in the sketch but everything has to be closed.

[ford347]

You are suppose to be able to sketch a single line, that is not part of the beam system boundary and select it for your beam direction. See the attached help file picture. I believe the video I saw was at last year's AU. I remember thinking that it was pretty cool and I'd have to give it a try some time. I did, and it didn't work. Check it out.

Josh

[dbaldacchino]

You know, I never noticed that in the help. It makes no sense whatsoever because you HAVE to sketch a closed loop and cannot have stray lines. You can sketch a line that is not part of the boundary and use the Beam Direction tool to pick this line, but when you finish the sketch, you get a warning and have to delete the line. When you do, then Revit complains that the beam system does not have the beam direction defined and you have to pick another line on the boundary. I also tried to see if you could pick a model line of a detail line in your view that was outside of the sketch environment, but you cannot. So unless the help is ahead of the game and there's going to be new functionality implemented in the future, I would say that it's wrong. Or we're both missing something.

Interestingly enough though, you can make a rectangularly shaped beam system with a splayed edge and pick that slanted edge as the beam direction and it will resolve all the varying length pieces.....quite nice I must say.

[modulor]

You're missing the new upgrade to 9.1 :) It's a new feature....beam systems were further improved.D'oh! That would've helped!

[Paul Andersen]

Joshua and David, the Beam Direction command defaults to a Pick Line method for placement when selected which allows you to quickly pick one of the sketched boundary lines to set the beam direction.

If you wish to sketch a single line to define the direction as suggested in the help file simply select the Beam Direction command and choose the Draw toggle in the options bar. This will allow you to sketch a non-boundary line to define the Beam Direction for the Beam System.

[dbaldacchino]

Thanks Paul. I knew that you could sketch instead of picking the beam direction, but the line you draw is still part of the boundary. I don't think the help is worded right in this case...it's kinda misleading.

[Paul Andersen]

...but the line you draw is still part of the boundary. I don't think the help is worded right in this case...it's kinda misleading.David, I agree that the help file could use some work and apparently so could my attempt to elaborate on it ;) . Try the following:

1. Define the closed boundary of the Beam System.
2. Select the Beam Direction command and choose Draw from the options bar. Sketch a line anywhere you wish . . . this line is not part of the boundary (should be blue instead of pink).
3. You should now have something like this prior to finishing the Sketch / Beam System.
4. The completed Beam System.

Is this what you are getting?

[dbaldacchino]

Ahhhhhh, got it. I was sketching using the line command and then picking that line as the beam direction, that's why it wouldn't finish the sketch as the line needs to be sketched after invoking the Beam Direction tool and THEN selecting the draw icon on the options bar, silly me :Oops: I just missed noting that the beam direction tool gave you the option to pick a boundary line or to draw your own beam direction line. I need to keep my eyes more open on that options bar :shock: Thanks for your patience!

[Paul Andersen]

I need to keep my eyes more open on that options bar :shock:
You and I both . . . I was talking with a couple of the Revit Structure developers at AU and commented that it would be nice when editing saved selection sets to be able to add or remove multiple members from the set with a crossing window rather than individually clicking each one. So we hit the laptop . . . fired up Revit Structure . . . and what was sitting on the options bar like a cobra ready to strike but a Multiple check box which when checked allowed the very functionality I was looking for. I felt really special at that moment let me tell you. To my defense it was my first AU and trip to Vegas so I was a little sleep deprived :roll: .

[dbaldacchino]

Hahaha, I feel for you :) It happens to the best of us! Perhaps it's an indication of a little improvement needed in the UI too ;)

To redeem myself, I came up with a neat technique to use beam systems creatively. Read THIS. (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=616316#post616316)

[Paul Andersen]

Hahaha, I feel for you :) It happens to the best of us! Perhaps it's an indication of a little improvement needed in the UI too ;)
To be honest the Multiple toggle in the option bar has always irritated me a bit since there is no quick way to toggle it without leaving the drawing area. I'd prefer its default state to be on for the tools that utilize it. I find its quicker to hit the escape key to cancel the Multiple functionality after performing an operation only once, if that's your intention, than it is to leave the drawing area to check the Multiple box when you need it. I'm a big advocate for shortcuts so the commands that can't be launched from the keyboard or right click menu really stand out (Finish Sketch, Quit Sketch, View Range, Multiple and other toggles in the options bar . . . )


To redeem myself, I came up with a neat technique to use beam systems creatively. Read THIS. (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=616316#post616316)
Very clever use of the Beam System David, Thanks for Sharing.