Best approach for joining concrete structure elements?

[overcaffeined1745]

The structure I'm designing in my project is made of rectangular concrete beams and columns. Unfortunately I wasn't able to guess the best way for drawing it with Revit.

First of all, I began drawing the structural grid. That's fine.

Then, when I start inserting structural columns, I found that it seems to be suggested to create single columns from the base level up to the top level. I did it that way. However, their intersections with the floors are not cleared, so you can't see the columns in plans with hidden line mode.

Of course you can clear those intersections with the "join geometry" tool. That's fine for small houses, but what about a large multistorey? Should you join all columns with all floors clicking one by one? I could do it in about 15 minutes I guess, but I don't like moving towards manual work if I have to repeat it each time I modify the building...

Then I began placing beams (I thought: "hey, perhaps beams can automatically intersect columns and do the work for me"). Unfortunately that's not the case. So I guess you also have to use the "join geometry" tool with beams and columns?

The worst of all is that Revit exits with a fatal error if I try to join a column and a beam... :roll:

So the question is as simple as this: "Did you ever model a multistorey concrete structure with Revit? How?".

[gregcashen]

My impression is that Revit was designed for and by Architects. The structural tools are very limited but seem to be based on way an architect thinks that an engineer would think. It's obvious that most of the users are not structural people but architectural/designers and the structural tools should be designed for how an architect displays structural stuff. For instance, the whole column-beam-not-attaching thing is how I (as an engineer) would do a structural framing plan...I don't show the beams attaching. But it doesn't work at all once I want to detail it. The beam SHOULD attach to the column or revit should show me a good reliable way to make connection families to "fill the gap." Even then, as an engineer, I want to specify the beam offset, not have a program do it for me. All this said, Revit is supposedly making great strides toward improving the structural abilities in the program...and I look forward to seeing them cause everything revit has done so far has made my job (and life!) easier.

[PeterJ]

Meantime you may wish to ask yourself whether you need this level of detail modelled?

If you have an exposed structure then I ca see that you do but if the detail you talk about repeats in a small number of windows then there are edit cut profile tools and filled regions and all manner of tricks to overcome the problem.

[Steve_Stafford]

However, their intersections with the floors are not cleared, so you can't see the columns in plans with hidden line mode.

Another way would be to "cut out" the holes that the floor would have around the columns. Do this on one level, then copy and paste aligned current view for the other floors. Then the columns will appear joined to the floor in a 3D view. The columns should be visible in a plan view as long as they are cut by the cutting plane, they did for me.

As for your CRASH when you attempt to join a beam and column...ME TOO. I tried it out tonight to see, and any time I tried to join a beam and column with the "stock" concrete families I was unceremoniously told I couldn't continue. If I joined the beam to the floor so they'd look nice and then attempted to join a column to the same floor...see ya!

Call support tomorrow and see what they find, most likely it'll get logged as an issue...hard to imagine crashing is intended behavior??

[overcaffeined1745]

[quote:0297cd0472="overcaffeined"]However, their intersections with the floors are not cleared, so you can't see the columns in plans with hidden line mode.

Another way would be to "cut out" the holes that the floor would have around the columns. Do this on one level, then copy and paste aligned current view for the other floors. Then the columns will appear joined to the floor in a 3D view. The columns should be visible in a plan view as long as they are cut by the cutting plane, they did for me.
[/quote:0297cd0472]

I think your idea is the best. I also found that if I join the columns with just one floor, I can see the columns in all levels (although in 3D views it becomes obvious that the columns are joined with one floor only). That's a bit strange. I think I'll cut the floors instead of joining geometry. It looks a cleaner solution.

Regarding beams, I don't need them to appear in drawings now, but I might in the near future.

[overcaffeined1745]

My impression is that Revit was designed for and by Architects. The structural tools are very limited but seem to be based on way an architect thinks that an engineer would think.


I'm architect+engineer, or something like that :)

Btw, I'm also going to analyze the structure with an external application. Do you know if Revit can export the columns/beams as "axis lines" in DXF so that I avoid to draw them again?

[Steve_Stafford]

Regarding beams, I don't need them to appear in drawings now, but I might in the near future.

FYI, If you started out with the residential project template, the second floor view properties, visibility/graphics has structural framing turned off along with structural foundations. I can see why the foundation object is, but not sure the framing was intended to be off. It isn't in the first floor.

Might want to check that.

Also,remember since framing is above your cut plane you really need a RCP view to show them in the way you would if you drafted it in 2d...(you know, framing for second floor visible on first floor plan)

[parul.s86319695]

i am facing a similar problem the sketch shows both the modelling process i have used
1. upper level- i modelled slab till the external edge of the beam and the slab line shows through
2. i modelled slab with inner edge and beam line shows

file:///C:/Users/admin/Desktop/gautam%20residence(Recovery).jpg

plus when i use join tool and select a beam it does not let me select anything else other than a beam...

plz help this is a residential project and I am to start a housing next....